The cybersecurity industry is made up of people from all sorts of different backgrounds, and Michael Collins is a perfect example. After spending 8 years in the Australian navy, Michael moved to Cairns and became a diving instructor. After 5 years, Michael decided it was time for a career change and enrolled in a course to become a Microsoft certified systems engineer.

Today, he’s Chief Information Security Officer at Judo Bank. In this episode we chat about how Michael has managed major transitions in his career, the importance of aligning cybersecurity strategies with business goals, systems thinking as a framework for approaching cybersecurity, and plenty more.

Systems Thinking Made Simple - by Derek Cabrera:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Systems-Thinking-Made-Simple-Problems/dp/1520740492

Secured by Galah Cyber website

2:20 - A good summary of Judo Bank

7:10 - How Michael became a CISO

9:00 - How Michael almost bailed on his cybersecurity training after day one

12:00 - The joys of scuba diving

14:30 - Advantages of systems thinking

16:30 - How someone can get started with systems thinking

17:40 - DSRP thinking (Distinctions, Systems, Relationships and Perspectives)

24:20 - Delivering AppSec by meeting the business where it is, not being idealistic

25:20 - “It’s not all about downsides”, businesses succeed by taking risks

27:10 - How we can promote more business-mindedness in cyber

32:50 - Michael’s transition from techie role to CISO

39:50 - Cole: “Leadership is a funny thing”

43:30 - Rapid fire questions

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