Patrick Shai is in conversation with Collen Sepamatla, who served an eight year sentence on fraud. They met during one of the prison visits that form part of a partnership between Khuluma Ndoda and the department of justice.

Collen approached Patrick, seeking advise on how to men things at home. Before he went to prison, the situation was tense between he and his wife and he feared that he might not be fully rehabilitated and that he might be further emasculated and turn to violence.

Since his release, he has been attending counselling sessions and actively doing something to ensure that he is fully rehabilitated and reintegrated into the community.

Guest: Collen Sepamatla - Beneficiary of the Khuluma Ndoda programme and an ex con