October 04, 2019

Taming the Jungle of Ideas, with The Wild’s Gabe Paez

27 minutes

Unlike in nature, ideas in enterprise don’t grow or perish by

the laws of natural selection — survival of the fittest — but

rather, which ideas are communicated and understood better at the

early stages. But not every good idea is best expressed on a

whiteboard. That’s why Gabe Paez developed The Wild — a digital

collaborative space designed to help teams workshop designs and ideas

in a VR environment.

Alan: My name’s Alan Smithson,

the host of the XR for Business Podcast, where we interview industry

leaders in making technologies in virtual, augmented and mixed

reality. And today’s guest is Gabe Paez. Gabe works at the

intersection of engineering, design, and business. He’s the founder

and CEO of The Wild, and immersive collaboration platform for teams

to experience their work together, from anywhere in augmented and

virtual reality. The Wild enables spatial design teams to ideate,

review, share, and present in cross-platform XR from the same room or

across the world. Gabe has over a decade of experience leading

experiential product teams and has designed immersive software

products for a diverse roster of Fortune 100 companies including

Google, Samsung, Nike, AT&T, and Verizon. To learn more about The

Wild visit thewild.com.

Gabe, welcome to the show.

Gabe: Hi! It’s good to be here.

Thank you.

Alan: Really amazing. Thank you

so much for taking the time. I know you’re super busy. You just

launched The Wild out into the wild. Tell us about The Wild. How did

this idea come to be, and what is it?

Gabe: Well, to be honest, I feel

like I’ve spent my whole career trying to explain ambitious ideas to

people, and what I’ve realized in that process is that there are

pools for sharing that idea — especially in the early stages of that

idea — are so limited. And often the best, the most ambitious, the

most interesting ideas get shut out early on, solely for the reason

that they are misunderstood or not completely communicated to the

other person. So I really wanted to break down that barrier; find a

way for everyone on a team to experience an idea together, while it’s

still in the ideas stage straight through to execution, and to find

an efficiency in that process. Not just solely for cost savings, but

ultimately, to find the best ideas and let those surface to the top

of the stack.

Alan: Let’s break it down here.

So this is a collaboration tool or a platform where people from

around the world can go into a virtual space and experience design

together.

Gabe: So The Wild really puts

collaboration at the core of the offering, not as an add-on, but as

the foundation of what we’re doing. We’re creating a collaboration

hub for people that design spaces, environments to come together and

experience those spaces from anywhere in the world. Architects,

engineers, people that their profession is to take an idea and

transform that into a physical place in the physical world somewhere.

And so they have a unique challenge that the output of their process,

their design process really isn’t realized until the very final

stage. So what The Wild does is sort of says we now have a capability

that we don’t have to wait until the very end to really understand

that space and to experience it, not just as a simulation on your

own, but to experience it together as a team, just as you would in

the very final moments where you walk through that space physically

with your teammates and look at what you’ve created together. We’re

using not just virtual reality, but the whole XR spectrum to allow

those team members to experience that idea as a concept in the very

early stages, either in total virtual space, in virtual reality or

augmented into a physical space. Whether you’re building out a full

building on an empty lot, that you can physically walk through in

augmented reality, while other people, other team members are in

virtual reality, in a different location, actually live making

changes to that space or whether everyone wants to be together in

augmented reality on different devices experiencing that space

connected to a physical space.

Alan: You’re able to put designs

and lock them to the physical world?

Gabe: Yes. And it’s not just the

designs. I mean, it’s not just taking something static and putting it

there, but having it be fully connected all the time.

Alan: Wow. This is gonna

decrease the amount of time that it takes to design things for sure,

especially larger spaces.

Gabe: Absolutely. Because your

ability to iterate on that idea is so, so amplified. If you have an

idea in the moment of the walkthrough, you can sketch or mass out

that idea in real time to evaluate it on its merit, rather than

taking notes and then going back into another design iteration. By

creating a fully immersive live space, your ability to design at the

speed of thought is realized.

Alan: It’s pretty incredible. So

where did– how did this– you’ve been designing different spaces for

your career. You realize there’s a problem, where do you start? How

did that come about, and when did you start working on it?

Gabe: Yeah. So it actually

started way back in 2015 for me. I was doing a series of sort of R&D

projects in virtual reality at the time. And these were mostly

service contracts for large companies experimenting with different UX

patterns, and that for me was a really just a process of trying to

dig in and understand XR, understand really the magic of XR. Because

I always had this feeling that it was more than just what I was

seeing at the time. And it really took that process to key in for me

on the insight that the real power of XR is not solely in the

simulation itself. It is in the connected nature of it. The ability

to bring multiple people together into a shared idea. And I knew–

solely because also there’s really no other way to do that

effectively, to really experience something from anywhere across the

world on those experiential terms. This is a magical thing, of

course, for the gaming industry, but for me, sort of trying to solve

this core business problem. I felt like the value was just

astronomical, because our tools right now for doing that are so

limited.

I knew at that point — so this was

like coming into 2016 — that I definitely wanted to do something in

the collaborative space. And then it was a process of sort of

searching through my own career and just understanding, “OK. We

have multiple people together in a space. It’s more than just

creating a meeting in that space. What are we going to do in there?

What are we going to talk about? What tools do I want to enable

there? And how can we find a market for this idea that is ready and

understands the need for it and can dive right in?” And that’s

how I found environmental designers. Even in those early days, a lot

of the large architectural companies were rabidly experimenting with

this technology and it was a great affirmation that they understood

that it was a clear part of the future. They were just trying to

grasp on to “OK, how do I actually implement this as a software

that we use every day?”

Alan: Incredible. And so now,

let me ask you: do you guys eat your own dog food?

Gabe: Oh, absolutely. I mean,

it’s been an amazing process to design The Wild in The Wild. And–

Alan: That’s wild!

Gabe: [laughs] Exactly!

Alan: [laughs]

Gabe: Because we are distributed

as well. A lot of us are here in Portland, Oregon, but our product

manager’s remote. Got a couple of developers remote. And so allowing

us to all come together and experiment with different environments,

different interface ideas. Pretty much every feature that we

implement is realized in a space in The Wild before we start

developing it.

Alan: So, OK, let’s get into–

you talked about architectural designs. One of the things that I see

is, there’s lots of these collaboration platforms coming on board.

There’s Facebook Spaces, not really a collaboration platform where

you can design, but they all have their features. What sets The Wild

apart from meetingRoom.io or some of the other platforms where

there’s collaboration — Glue — there’s a couple of them. But this

seems to be different, because you’re actually designing in it.

Whereas the other ones are sharing designs. Even Spatial seems to be

a lot different than The Wild.

Gabe: Yeah, absolutely. There

are a few core differences. Number one, we’re really designed for the

business use case. We take security really seriously. We take sharing

settings and administration– there’s all sorts of admin overhead

that you really need to think about when designing a business tool,

versus a consumer social tool. So The Wild is very much in that case

of trying to provide this value for the professional use case. The

second thing is we take the word collaboration, not just as a general

word. We really have a very specific definition of that that we feel

like is more effective than thinking of collaboration solely as file

sharing or information sharing. Collaboration is the ability for

multiple people from anywhere to come together and literally create

together. Ideate and create, the ability for them not just to come in

and experience it together, walk through it and look at something

that is static, but if I have an idea that I can actually create that

idea in real time with each other.

So we differentiate from a lot of the

other platforms in sort of the nuts and bolts of how we do that. We

have a UX tenant. Anything you can see, I can see which we take

pretty seriously in the basically anything that I’m experiencing or

seeing in the first person is visual to you as well. And it all

happens in real time. So if I bring up a menu or different tools or

you can see how much my trigger is held in on my controller, all the

way down to the minute details. But what it does, is it creates an

environment that just feels like it’s fundamentally shared by all the

participants in an equal way. You can create together like literally

two people can pull a mass together, similar to pulling a tape

measure across the room. It’s that level of collaborating as if you

were in a conference room together that we are really trying to

replicate in The Wild in a powerful way. And that’s some complicated

technology stock to really enable that.

Alan: Incredible. Do you have

customers using this now or is this still in development?

Gabe: Yes, absolutely. We have

customers using it and even pre-release. We’ve had customers in a

pilot program since roughly the end of 2017 now. So this is

definitely actively used. It’s no longer a beta software. It’s been

really exciting to see that arc. This is my first product company.

But seeing the arc of something going from this idea, to a rough

prototype, to a matured software that can handle spaces in the

complexity that our customers really demand has been a really

interesting process and isn’t trivial. Your ability to support a 3D

file format, just say, “Oh, we have support for FBX or SKP file,

SketchUp files” is a lot different than your ability to have a

high degree of confidence that any model that someone brings in is

going to look good and be performative, and efficient streaming

across our real time network. We take great pride in the process, not

just that we have these features, but that the features we have

implemented are very solid.

Alan: So you have customers,

they’re using it. How are they using it in ways that you didn’t

anticipate?

Gabe: [chuckles] There have been

a lot of surprises along the way, to be honest. More and more people

are using it even just as a meeting tool — like in the place of

having a video conferencing call — for purposes other than designing

together in the space, which we also always honestly anticipated. I

mean, you can share more than just 3D content. You can bring in

images and video and all sorts of other content into The Wild. It’s

been interesting to see that sort of happen organically, rather than

us forcing that use case. Also, just it’s been interesting to see

what people can create, like the differences and sort of how someone

designs in a 2D interface, versus in a collaborative setting. When

multiple people can come together and literally design together in

that real time format to see how the differences that emerge in terms

of the type of ideas that come from that, versus when they’re

designing in isolation and then bringing those ideas together in like

a conference room in a 2D deck. You know what I mean?

Alan: Absolutely. First of all,

nobody wants to be in a conference room ever.

Gabe: [laughs] Yes.

Alan: “I want to spend my

day in a conference room,” said no one, ever.

Gabe: [laughs] Exactly.

Alan: It’s interesting. Some of

these collaboration tools that I’ve seen, collaboration platforms,

they keep recreating the conference room. I’m like, “Maybe we

should just work out in the forest. I don’t know. Can we make a beach

that we’re all standing on?”

Gabe: Yeah. The bottom line is,

I mean, I feel like everyone sort of innately understands that the

conference room is actually the least creative setting you can

possibly put people into. And we really have an opportunity to do

that completely differently, to inspire you with where we put you, to

have these ideas. So that you’re not starting just in this sterile

room with white walls and whiteboards and a TV and expected to have

amazing ideas come from that.

Alan: Yeah, no kidding. It’s

uninspiring, but I think one of the first things that– I guess the

first complaints that people had about virtual reality was very

isolating, and I’m alone. But when you the first time you realize

that there’s other people in it with you in that social aspect, your

brain just kind of lights up because, one, you’re not expecting it.

And two, you realize, holy crap, it’s as if they were standing right

in front of me. And that sense of presence can transcend continents

and we can have conversations with people all over the world. And I

think what you guys have here is really incredible. Now, does it go

across devices? So, for example, via an iPad, could I pull up the

people as well? Or is it just for kind of head worn displays?

Gabe: No. We are– AR is on the

iPad and iPhone, so iOS devices. In terms of being cross-platform,

you can join from virtual reality headsets like the VIVE, the Rift

and so on. Or you can join from Windows or Mac — which is very also

unique to us — you can come in in 2D mode on either platform.

Alan: OK.

Gabe: And then in augmented

reality you can use iOS devices. And that’s just really the start.

We’ve got a lot of things even beyond that in the road map. The idea

is to provide really broad access to these cloud connected spaces

from all of these different devices.

Alan: You said you’ve had a

bunch of companies, you’re working on this platform. Are you finding

that VR headsets got sold? Bunch of consumers bought them, but they

weren’t using them. Are you finding now that enterprise, because it’s

a different animal, are they using these and is the daily usage

increasing?

Gabe: Absolutely. I mean, we

have a lot of KPIs that we track, but the one core KPI that is most

meaningful to us is space time. So space time is what we measure as

not just logged into The Wild, but like active in a space, either

creating or talking with somebody. So really engaged with content in

the space. And every month it goes up, both from new users and our

existing users incorporating The Wild into their workflow more and

more. So it’s been a huge affirmation to what we’ve created to drive

that metric up. And we intend to do that even more so, by providing

more access, more capability, more speed, which is just key to

creating ultimately the best possible experience they can have in

this shared workspace.

Alan: So I’ve got a plan for

you. We’re going to partner with the cell phone companies and we’re

going to design the future 5G interfaces in 5G.

Gabe: [laughs] Please. Gosh.

Real 5G, please.

Alan: No kidding. We’ve been

talking about it for so long.

Gabe: It’s so important. I mean,

what we have now is fantastic, I’m not going to lie. Like even The

Wild, we’ve really worked hard to optimize The Wild to run well on a

4G connection. And that’s part of how we can prove out the use case

of taking an iPad to a site where you don’t have Wi-Fi, you’re gonna

be on a like a 4G connection. And then having someone in Europe or in

France somewhere, like a designer in France, and sharing a space with

somebody on a 4G connection in Oklahoma. I don’t know. [laughs] And

those people, those participants in that space being connected as if

they were in the same room together. But 5G really amplifies the

capability for us to create even that much more rich a space that

they can experience together by just improving the flow of data

between those two participants.

Alan: Yeah, it’s just exciting,

the stuff that can happen. So of the different companies that are

working on this, what are the, I guess, industries that are most–

you mentioned architecture. I would assume that’s a big one. What

about, I guess, retail? I’ll let you talk to it, but what are some of

the industries that are latching onto this?

Gabe: It’s interesting, retail

actually is what started it for us. There’s tremendous value in

retail. So when I talk about retail, I’m saying sort of specifically

merchandising, retail space. A lot of companies and a lot of brands

and also retailers have products that they’re trying to match into a

variety of physical spaces. They create all different configurations

of it. And a lot of that work traditionally was done in 2D. Even on

whiteboards, they’re taking pictures of products and hanging them up

in different configurations. And that’s how you see them in a store

shelf. Whether you’re looking at cereal boxes or shirts or whatever.

So our ability to take that to the next level and allow that to be a

fully experiential, both designing experience where the designers can

go in there and layout the store as if they were physically in it,

but also in terms of the testing that they can do on that, like

running people through it and getting feedback on those spaces. It’s

amazing, the workflows that emerge from that in The Wild. And it’s

really astonishing to see a full retail store, like a Walmart inside

of The Wild and to walk through those aisles as if you are in there.

It’s a bizarre and amazing experience.

Alan: Going to be really cool

when things like Oculus Quest allow you to have free roaming, so you

could stand in a big office and just walk up and down.

Gabe: Oh, absolutely, yeah. So

the ability– even in a giant factory type setting where you have all

this empty space, we haven’t really pushed it to that limit yet, but

that’s definitely in the future for this technology.

Alan: Amazing. It’s very

exciting.

Gabe: So retail is one really

powerful vertical, of course architecture. But along with

architecture, all of the– through the whole AEC stack, engineering

and construction, they have all different ways and needs for not just

design, but really communication and coordination across those

different trades, that really make The Wild shine. So your ability to

go into a space with a general contractor or the electrical team, all

these different trades coming together and getting buy-off from

inside the space, rather than looking at these 2D drawings is really

powerful.

Alan: So it’s really quite a

fantastic tool. How do people, I guess, measure their success within

this? First of all, how much do you charge for it? Is there a fee, or

are you just trying to onboard people now, or is there a trial or…?

Gabe: Yes. Well, we do offer a

free trial, which you can go to our site, thewild.com to try. And

then we’ve got a per user pricing scheme that comes out of that. It’s

pretty simple and doable for any team that’s already paying for other

3D software in their stack. So basically, we’re trying to make it

both. We’re not just trying to come out right and make people buy off

on a huge plan, but really allowing them to grow into it. So they can

start really simply with just a few seeds and then just organically

grow into their team, as their need evolves and develops. And we

really see them measuring their success in a number of ways. Number

one, I would say just satisfied and excited, engaged clients. A lot

of our customers are using The Wild for presentation, both with their

client in the same room and also remotely, because it allows them to

so much more effectively present their ideas across distance. That

sort of satisfaction is huge.

And we get feedback all the time about

jobs that have been won, or just that are going more smoothly than it

would have otherwise. And then also just in the happiness of the

team, of course. Any design team gets frustrated when

miscommunication happens, when they’re not getting solid signoff or

all of that stuff, that just creates friction in the work

environment. We’re doing our best to eradicate. You can really

measure sort of success in terms of just job satisfaction at the end

of the day as well.

Alan: People don’t put much

weight on this, but it also being cutting edge and using these tools

can really attract younger employees.

Gabe: Sure. I mean, I think it’s

not really just about youth versus…

Alan: Future thinking people. I

don’t think we should put an age on things, but people that are used

to using cutting edge tools.

Gabe: Yeah, exactly. So those

sorts of team members that are really going to push you forward,

rather than just sort of adhering to the status quo. I mean, those

are the companies that are even just drawn to this technology,

period. But also those are the companies that are really, really

making a name for themselves, because they’re able to move with not

just recklessness, but with strategic investment in solving these key

business problems that helps them do their job, of course more

efficiently, but fundamentally just create a better end product.

Alan: Yeah, I agree. It’s gonna

be great for for everybody, engineers, aerospace. If you think about

all the things that need to be designed in the world, being able to

do it remotely because commuting in for people– I read a stat that

the average commute time is two hours a day.

Gabe: Absolutely. Yeah. The sort

of thing I like to come back to it that it’s like, what are you

getting from commuting in? What value are we creating in terms of the

work? And there are a lot of arguments to be made about that. But

what most people come back to when you ask them that question is it’s

the sense of the team really feeling like they’re there, face to

face, coming together to solve this problem and having that sort of

camaraderie that’s created through like people in a space together.

And honestly, not just The Wild, but XR — and especially social XR

— holds the promise of being able to unlock that in a way that is

just so much more powerful than we can even do in a physical space.

Like one of our metrics that we really strive toward is we want all

of our customers to be able to say not just that meetings in The Wild

are more effective than what they can do in other digital realms. But

we want people to say that meeting in The Wild is more effective than

what they can do in any other way. So more effective than meeting in

a conference room or meeting on site, I don’t know. However they

might do it, we want it to be the superpowers that you’re able to

unlock in terms of working in The Wild from anywhere is really the

cream of the crop. You would prefer that over all other forms of

interaction with your team.

Alan: That’s a bold statement.

And I think on that note, we should wrap this up because what else

needs to be said? You’re literally building the future of

collaboration and the future is now.

Gabe: Absolutely. Thank you so

much for having me on, I really appreciate it.

Alan: Oh, it’s my absolute

pleasure. Is there anything else you wanna leave listeners with? I

know we can leave them with the website, thewild.com, but is there

anything else you want to leave listeners with?

Gabe: Just check out more at

thewild.com, of course. But also, if you have any ideas, any

projects, don’t be afraid to get started today, whether it’s with The

Wild or any other tool. I often say “The greatest step is sort

of the first step into it” and be bold, introduce this

technology into your company, and amazing things are going to come

from it.

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