Rob Perry is our guest on the 315th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob Perry is a SaaS and B2B copywriter and consultant who has built a solid pipeline of clients without using a website, email list, or high-profile social media presence. In fact, he grew his business using a platform you may be familiar with: Upwork. How’d he do it? And could you do the same?

Stick around and find out:

 	How Rob went from President of sales to copywriter and how he leveraged his skills.
 	The struggles of abruptly moving your family overseas.
 	How he used Upwork to start copywriting and became a sought-after copywriter.
 	Standing out on a platform like Upwork and becoming the go-to choice.
 	Are 3 minutes of value worth your time?
 	Upwork 101: Setting yourself up for success in 3 steps.
 	Why you need to filter jobs on Upwork and cut out the noise and save time.
 	How to avoid clients who have unrealistic expectations.
 	Did Kira get kicked off Upwork?
 	How to tailor your proposals to each job.
 	The top reasons copywriters should use Upwork to fill their pipeline.
 	Can you build and make connections OFF the platform?
 	Finding the projects you actually want to work on.
 	How to dig up the pain points of your ideal client and create a solution.
 	Rob’s advice on closing sales calls and being a better salesperson.
 	What mistakes are copywriters making in the sales process?
 	How to step into different personas and voices as a copywriter.
 	Why it’s crucial to practice confidence and adjust (and take care of) your mindset.
 	What NOT to do when adding retainers to your client load.
 	Avoiding bad habits and thinking strategically about your business.
 	When to use Upwork and how to keep it from being your only lead source.
 	Thinking about building a team? Do this first.
 	How to get to where you want to go FASTER.

Press play or check out the transcript.


 









































The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
The Copywriter Think Tank
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
Rob Perry's Free Upwork Workshop 
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Free month of Brain.FM
Episode 19
Episode 248
Episode 265


Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh:  In the past five years of interviewing successful copywriters on the podcast, I can only remember one who was running a successful business without a website or a social media presence, or an email list for that matter. And perhaps coincidentally, that person, I believe, is the highest-paid copywriter working in the world today. Now, I'm guessing at that assumption, but if he's not the highest-paid, he's definitely in the top five. And you might be thinking, "Well, sure, a copywriter with a good reputation and a steady flow of very high-paying clients can get away without a website or an email list or a social media presence. But what about an almost unknown copywriter working in places like Italy or Chile or Spain without any high-profile clients? In fact, a copywriter who might be getting the bulk of his clients in a place like Upwork?"

Our guest on the Copywriter Club Podcast today is copywriter Rob Perry, and he says that it's not only possible to do that, but that he's been doing it successfully for years. You're going to want to stick around for this one and hear how he's done it.


TCC Podcast #315: Building a Profitable Business without a Website, Email List, or Social Media with Rob Perry

Ideas and habits worth stealing from top copywriters.

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Over the past few years the ways we work have changed. And the work we do has changed too. In the 397th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick about navigating the changes and creating a business that works for you.

Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.



 
Stuff to check out:
4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
Helen's website
Helen's Cuppa Link (talked about on the show)
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground


 
Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh: For a lot of freelancers who write content and copy, work has changed pretty dramatically over the past year. Some of us, especially those who are just starting out have been impacted by tools like Claude and ChatGPT. While others may be struggling a bit thanks to layoffs in niches like tech and SaaS. As opportunities change, smart business owners change along with them. And relationships become even more important than ever.

Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter and regenerative business designer Helen Tremethick. Helen has worked with several business owners as they’ve transformed the work they do. Sometime changing up their deliverables. Other times switching niches or the focus of their work entirely. As we spoke, we kept coming back to one idea… relationships. They’re more important than ever, and that’s one thing that probably won’t change in the near future.

Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in June in The Copywriter Underground. If you listened to last week’s episode, you learned a bit about the technical things you need to do to ensure the emails you write get to the inbox and not the spam folder and then get opened. But it can be hard to see exactly what to do as you listen to a podcast… it’s audio only, so seeing where to find the tools and settings to adjust, well, you just can’t. So we asked email deliverability specialist Matt Brown to demonstrate exactly how to set up your ESP and google postmaster tools so your emails have a better chance of getting where you want them to go. This is a skill set that clients need desperately. And when you can bring them along with your writing skills, you have what it takes to land high paying email retainers that can last for months or even years. But to get this training, you must be a member of The Copywriter Underground. Learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/tcu. 

And with that, let’s go to our interview with Helen.

Kira Hug: All right, Helen, we are not going to start with your story, because that's where we started last time, which we figured out was episode 176. And you figured out it was mid-March 2020, so right before the world changed dramatically. So it's good to be with you again. And I think a good place to start could just be around a line of copy on your website, on your home page, there's a line of copy that says, burn it down isn't good business strategy, but when something's got to give dot, dot, dot, and then you go into your brilliant copy. But that grabbed my attention because I feel like I've heard a lot of people around me recently talking about burning it all down and a conversation with neighbors, business owners. And so from your perspective, Where do you feel like people in the online business space, copywriters, where are they at right now with what they're feeling, what they're doing in their businesses? From your experience coaching them, what are you seeing and feeling right now?

Helen Tremethick: Oh my goodness. You know, I actually just had a call this morning where I was talking to somebody about exactly th...

TCC Podcast #397: Rethinking How We Work with Helen Tremethick

We've been talking a lot about email on the podcast lately (see the last four or five episodes). But getting your emails opened takes more than good copy. So for the 396th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob spoke with copywriter and email deliverability specialist, Matt Brown about all the non-copy things you need to know about getting your emails opened. And...how to add deliverability and ESP management to your services so you can attract long-term email clients. This is a good one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.



Stuff to check out:
deliverabilitynow.com
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground


Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh: Looking back at the last four or five episodes of this podcast, you might notice a theme. It wasn’t intentional, but somehow the last several guests have all focused on email, email strategy, and creating or running a business focused on a regular or daily email. For some reason, email seems to be having a moment. Maybe it’s the rise of new email platforms like Substack and Beehiv that make writing emails and growing an audience easier than before. Or it might be the fact that it is getting harder to connect with a regular audience on social media… posts, tweets, reels just don’t reach as many people as they used to. And paid ads on those platforms are getting more expensive and less effective. So attracting an audience that you can connect with regularly with email is as important—maybe more important—than ever before.

Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter and email deliverability expert Matt Brown. I wanted to talk with Matt because it’s one thing to write and send emails and quite another to do what it takes to make sure those emails actually arrive in your reader’s inboxes and get opened. It happens less than you think. And Matt knows how to fix that. He shared a lot of technical stuff that you have to get right. If you know this stuff, you can be far more valuable to your clients that if you just hand over a google doc with the text of your emails. This is a skill set that can result in long term relationships with great clients. So stick around.  

Before we jump into the interview, I want to let you know about an upcoming training happening in The Copywriter Underground on this very topic. After recording today’s interview, Matt mentioned that it can be tough to wrap your head around some of the ideas he shared without a demonstration where he opens up an email account and shows you how to make adjustments. So he offered to show us exactly how to make sure your emails land in the inbox in a training for members of The Copywriter Underground. If you’re listening to this episode and think, I need to know how to do this, or I want to be able to offer this skill to my clients (and earn thousands of dollars from them in the process), then this training is for you. Go to thecopywriterclub.com/tcu and join the Underground today. And we’ll send you details on how to access this incredibly valuable training.

And with that, let’s go to our interview with Matt.

Matt, welcome to the podcast. I reached out to you because we've been talking to so many people about email. I feel like there's kind of been a change around the way people are thinking about email with all of these new tools that have come online in the last couple of years as far as managing email newsletters and that kind of thing. So I thought it'd be really helpful to have you on, but before we get into all of the things we want to talk about email, tell us how you became not just a copywriter, but an email deliverability expert and copywriter.
Matt Brown: Yeah. So I'll give you the long story since we're on a podcast together and it...

TCC Podcast #396: How to Get Your Emails Opened with Matt Brown

The demand for emails is enormous. And there are probably more copywriters writing emails than any other product. But that doesn't mean those emails are great. Some are barely readable. Others go straight to the junk folder—where they belong. There's never been more need for better emails than today. So for the 395th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we asked email strategist and copywriter Donnie Bryant to share what he knows about email. Donnie is the author of Subject Line Science, a short book that will help you get more emails opened. If you write emails for clients or your own business, you'll want to lick the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript now.



 
Stuff to check out:
Subject Line Science by Donnie Bryant
Tricks of the Mind by Derren Brown
SubjectLineScience.com
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground


 
Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh: Let’s talk about email. When copywriters reach out to us, they often ask what’s the best way to learn how to write emails and probably more importantly, land clients who need help with regular emails. And it kind of feels like there’s been a sea change around email over the past couple of years. Maybe it’s because email is a great way to connect one on one… or at least in a way that feels one to one. OR maybe it’s the shift in buying behavior that’s happened over the past decade. I’m not sure… but what I am sure about is that email isn’t going anywhere. It’s getting more important, not less. And it’s a great service to offer for clients who need ongoing help… that is the kind of clients you can work with long term.

Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, I interviewed copywriter Donnie Bryant.  Donnie recently wrote a book about subject lines and what it takes to write them, so he was the perfect guest to invite on the show to talk about email, strategizing a campaign—which I asked him to walk through step by step, as well as what it takes to break into the financial copy niche. If you want to write emails as part of your business, you’ll want to listen to this episode until the end.

Now before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now. NOTE: Sorry, this bonus is gone.

We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to subscribers who paid to recieve his newsletter. It’s not currently available anywhere. Even new subscribers to his newsletter don’t have access. But he offered to give this strategy—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May—and only for members of The Underground. 

If you were to purchase these bonuses sepearately, you’d pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. Plus you get all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with your membership in The Underground.

TCC Podcast #395: Email Strategy with Donnie Bryant

Someone's got to be the best. And at least a few people believe that Daniel Throssell is Australia's best copywriter—even if only because Daniel told them he was : ). In the 394th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob brought Daniel into the studio to talk about his email strategy, world building, and how he turned a children's book into Australia's best selling book. And Daniel got real when it comes to what a day in his life really looks like. This is the second time, Daniel has been on the podcast (the first episode is here). Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript of today's appearance on the show.


Stuff to check out:
Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks
Tough Titties by Laura Belgray
A great book (Dark Matter) by Blake Crouch
Master and Commander by Aubrey Maturin
Stop Reading the News by Rolf Dobelli
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Daniel's Website

Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh:  If you’re going to say you’re the best at something, eventually you’re going to have to back it up. The late Gary Halbert once sent out a newsletter titled “why I am the best copywriter alive”. Of course, any one can make a claim like that. But eventually you have to back it up… and at least when it comes to Gary, he had the clients, the sales, and the results to make a pretty strong claim on the title. Which brings me to the guy that many people call Australia’s best copywriter.

Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I interviewed copywriter Daniel Throssell, who has been called Australia’s best copywriter by many in the marketing world. But does he have the chops to back it up? Indeed he does. We covered a lot of ground in this interview—we went really deep on his approach to email, which in many ways he treats as if he’s writing a novel. He also shared a few of the details about his strategy for pushing several books to #1 on the best seller list, a strategy by the way that works for all kinds of products, not just books. And Daniel got real when he talked about what a typical day looks like for him. We think you’re going to like this one.

But before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about the copywriter underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now.

We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that today’s guest Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. You’re going to hear a little bit about it in this episode, but Daniel only scratches the surface here. Because the only other time he’s shared his strategy was with his paying subscribers and he wants to make sure to honor them by not sharing it elsewhere. However, he has made one exception. He’s sharing it for a limited time with the paying subscribers of The Copywriter Underground for just a few days in the month of May. If you want to learn more about the strategy he teases on this episode, jump into the underground today so we can share the details of how to get your hands on the whole thing with you.

There’s never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now.

TCC Podcast #394: Email Copywriting with Daniel Throssell

What is the difference between showing up as a copywriter and showing up as a strategist? In the 393rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Eman Ismail about how she changed her title and the work she does to reflect a new and more satisfying role of "email strategist". Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.



Stuff to check out:
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground


Full Transcript:
Rob Marsh:  When we coach the copywriters inside the copywriter think tank or in our group coaching groups—which by the way are open now and if you’re interested you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com/coach—sorry didn’t really mean to take that tangent… but when we coach copywriters one idea that comes up a lot is the need to not just show up as a writer… an order taker… or as a vendor, but rather you need to be a problem solver. And often that means taking on the role of a strategist in addition to the work you do as a writer. But how do you do that? It’s one thing to say, I’m a strategist and quite another to actually do the work that strategy requires.

Hi, I’m Rob Marsh, one of the founders of The Copywriter Club. And on today’s episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, my co-founder, Kira Hug, and I interviewed email strategist—not copywriter—Eman Ismail. Eman share why she rejects the title of copywriter today and what it really means to show up as a strategist. This might not be the kind of thing a beginner can do, but if you’ve got some experience creating copy and serving your clients, you may be picking up the expertise you need to show up as a strategist for your clients. Be sure to stick around to hear how Eman does it.  

Now before we get to the interview… you’ve heard me talk about The Copywriter Underground and what it includes. If you’ve been thinking about joining this amazing community, I want to give you two reasons to jump in now. The first is a limited time Client Emails Masterclass with copywriter Michal Eisik. Michal launched her business after completing the copywriter accelerator and think tank. What she’s built is amazing. We asked Michal if she would share her masterclass with The Underground. But because Michal actually sells this to her own email list, she asked us to limit access to just a couple of day in May.  Which means if you want to get the Client Emails Masterclass for free, you’ve got to jump into The Underground now.

We also have a second bonus… it’s the strategic plan that copywriter Daniel Throssell used to make his client’s book a best seller in Australia. Daniel has only shared this plan one time… to subscribers who paid to recieve his newsletter. It’s not currently available anywhere. Even new subscribers to his newsletter don’t have access. But he offered to give this strategy—completely free of charge—to members of The Copywriter Undergound. And like the Client Emails Masterclass, this member exclusive is only available for one week during the month of May—and only for members of The Underground. 

If you were to purchase these bonuses sepearately, you’d pay more than what you pay to join The Underground for a single month. Plus you get all the other training, coaching, and community stuff that comes along with your membership in The Underground. There’s never been a better time to visit thecopywriterclub.com/tcu to claim your free bonuses now.

And with that, let’s go to our interview with Eman.

Kira Hug: Let's start with recent moves you've made to level up in your business. Because when you were here last, we talked about your origin story in your business and how you were leveling up at the time. And what I love about you and just watching you and, and, um, hearing from you is you're like constantly leveling up in big ways.

TCC Podcast #315: Building a Profitable Business without a Website, Email List, or Social Media with Rob Perry

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