In the last TechToTransform podcast of 2021, Mantis MD Eleanor Willock talks to Liam Cahill, national adviser on health and social care, and expert in digital organisational change.

They discuss the huge challenges facing the NHSE/D/X integration, whether ICS regulation will solve the innovation gap, the digital NHS mindset, and the exact point at which citizen data should become patient data.

Advisory: this podcast contains Star Wars analogies some listeners may find upsetting. Although, if you do, we find your lack of faith disturbing.