Andrew Lazo joins me to go through Chapter 13: They Have Pulled Down: Deep Heaven on Their Heads. Andrew Lazo is one of the hosts of Pints With Jack and he's also an expert on Lewis's last novel Till We Have Faces. Merlin shows up in this chapter and dialogues with the Company at St. Anne's. His conversation with Ransom is some of the richest dialogue in the entire book. Andrew and I cover an array of topics as we go through each section in the chapter. We discuss the importance of language, what Lewis thinks about magicians from different time periods, St. Paul and the "Neutrals," MacPhee's materialism, and more. 

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