The $10 Million MSP Podcast

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Trey Miller started his MSP after being laid off, then spent years building the business before merging with another local provider. The combined company grew to more than $10 million in revenue and 70 employees before Trey and his partners sold it to Thrive.

Trey joins Brian to share how a major client’s RFP became a turning point, why the partners began preparing for a sale years in advance, and how they structured a merger that worked for everyone involved.

He also talks about life after the sale, including his sabbatical and the process of figuring out what he wanted to do next. Along the way, Trey reflects on leadership, peer groups, saying no to the wrong opportunities, and knowing what “enough” looks like.

In this episode:

- Why MSP owners should prepare for a sale before one is imminent

- How Trey’s MSP grew from a small team into a company with more than 70 employees

- What made Trey’s merger with another MSP work

- How a major client’s RFP influenced the decision to sell

- What to consider about life after selling your business

- Why MSP owners should know what “enough” looks like

For MSP owners thinking about a merger, a future sale, or what comes after running the business, Trey’s story offers a candid look at the decisions behind each transition.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:07 - Meet Trey Miller

1:26 - Why MSP owners wait too long to plan for a sale

5:18 - Trey’s path from layoff to MSP ownership

8:26 - Why Trey merged with another MSP

10:51 - How a major client’s RFP led the partners to consider a sale

15:08 - What came after selling the business

19:41 - Identity and purpose after an exit

26:04 - The reality of taking a sabbatical

37:09 - Advice for MSPs considering a merger

44:15 - How Trey and his partners structured their partnership

52:37 - The leadership mistake that taught Trey to say no

55:28 - Knowing what “enough” looks like

57:46 - Rapid-fire questions

1:01:37 - Where to connect with Trey Miller

1:02:31 - Episode wrap-up

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Trey Miller:

https://adaliaadvisors.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/trey-miller

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Giving up control is uncomfortable for most MSP owners. For Bruce Nelson, it became one of the biggest drivers of growth.

Bruce, President of Vertilocity, joins Brian Hoppe to explain how the business grew from roughly $7 million in revenue to nearly $29 million, with a $35 million target ahead.

They discuss joining a larger CPA firm, using acquisitions to add new capabilities, and building a leadership team that could run the day-to-day without everything flowing through Bruce.

Bruce also shares why culture remains his responsibility, how Vertilocity evaluates potential acquisitions, and why AI could significantly change the skills, pricing models, and services MSPs need over the next several years.

In this episode:

• Why giving up control can accelerate MSP growth
• Growing from roughly $7 million to nearly $29 million
• What Vertilocity looks for when acquiring another MSP
• How joining a larger organization changed Bruce’s role
• Building leaders who can solve problems without the owner
• Why culture is one responsibility Bruce will not delegate
• How AI could reshape the MSP business model

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:07 - Meet Bruce Nelson

2:01 - Why giving up control matters

4:01 - Building the original MSP

8:15 - Joining HBK and accelerating growth

13:21 - Vertilocity’s acquisition strategy

22:20 - Growing inside a larger organization

30:28 - Building a remote company and leadership team

37:27 - Getting Bruce out of the day-to-day

42:06 - Why culture stays with the leader

50:38 - How AI could reshape MSPs

54:36 - Bruce’s biggest leadership mistake

56:37 - Rapid-fire questions

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Bruce Nelson:

https://vertilocity.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucenelsonvs/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucenelsonvs/

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Private equity is often treated like the enemy of MSP owners. Reed Wilson once saw it that way too.

Reed, CEO of Courser, joins Brian Hoppe to explain how the right private equity partnership helped turn a $10 million MSP into a $175 million organization with approximately 650 employees and 25 acquisitions.

They discuss why Courser keeps its local MSP brands, what changes after an acquisition, and why the skills needed to build an MSP are not always the same skills needed to scale one.

Reed also breaks down Courser’s approach to organic growth, board management, leadership hiring, and using machine learning to identify at-risk clients before they churn.

In this episode:

• What MSP owners misunderstand about private equity
• How recurring revenue helped Reed’s MSP reach $10 million
• Why Courser preserves the local brands it acquires
• How Courser transforms a new MSP after an acquisition
• What it takes to manage an MSP with 650 employees
• How machine learning reduced churn among at-risk clients
• Why builders are not always the right people to scale a company

For MSP owners considering private equity, acquisitions, or their own role in the next stage of the business, this conversation offers a candid look at what changes when an MSP grows beyond the founder.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:07 - Meet Reed Wilson

1:25 - What MSP owners get wrong about private equity

5:20 - Building an MSP from the ground up

8:54 - Moving from project work to recurring revenue

12:29 - Why Reed finally considered private equity

15:33 - Scaling Courser to $175 million

19:40 - Transforming an MSP after an acquisition

27:15 - Learning to work with a board

30:10 - The difference between builders and scalers

37:03 - Building an organic growth engine

40:07 - Using machine learning to reduce client churn

46:24 - Reed’s biggest leadership mistakes

50:05 - Leadership lessons and rapid-fire questions

54:59 - Where to connect with Reed Wilson

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Reed Wilson:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sreedwilson

https://www.gocourser.com/

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Hiring a second-in-command does not remove the owner bottleneck if every important decision still runs through the owner.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Clay Harris, former CEO of WorkSmart and Certified EOS Implementer, to discuss the systems, leadership, and personal decisions behind growing an MSP from its earliest days to $22 million in revenue and more than 100 employees.

WorkSmart began in 2001 with a group of recent college graduates selling IT services for $40 an hour. Over the next two decades, the company built recurring revenue, completed eight acquisitions, expanded into new markets, and eventually used EOS to break through a ceiling at roughly $5 million.

Clay explains why founders often hold onto responsibilities long after the business has outgrown their involvement. In his case, he was still personally ordering millions of dollars in hardware while serving as CEO of an $18 million company.

He also shares what it actually takes to empower an integrator, why handing someone a messy business is not delegation, and why a professionally managed MSP must give its leadership team real authority instead of forcing every decision back through the founder.

In this episode:

• Why MSP owners create too much chaos or wait too long to act
• How WorkSmart grew to $22 million through organic growth and acquisitions
• Why a well-run company is already being built to sell
• What founders must do before hiring professional management
• Why integrators fail when owners refuse to release control
• How EOS helped WorkSmart triple its monthly recurring revenue
• What MSP owners should consider before selling or stepping away

If your MSP has outgrown the way you currently lead it, this conversation will help you create the clarity, accountability, and leadership structure required for the business to operate without everything depending on you.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:07 - Meet Clay Harris

1:59 - What MSP owners get wrong about growth

3:38 - Building WorkSmart from the ground up

7:48 - Growing the MSP to $22 million

10:28 - Organic growth and eight acquisitions

11:46 - Building an MSP to own or sell

14:52 - Preparing the business for professional management

17:19 - Why founders struggle to let go

19:53 - How Clay became his company’s bottleneck

21:22 - Delegating without taking the work back

22:33 - What a true integrator does

25:18 - Finding an identity beyond the MSP

27:48 - Why remaining an owner did not work for Clay

30:19 - Finding purpose after an exit

35:15 - A great life does not require selling the company

37:15 - How EOS changed WorkSmart

39:26 - Growing MRR from $340,000 to $1 million

42:08 - The three things every entrepreneur needs

44:16 - Clay’s biggest leadership mistake

47:47 - Where to connect with Clay Harris

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Clay Harris:

https://clayharris.com/

https://implementer.eosworldwide.com/clay-harris/

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Reaching $10 million once can be momentum. Reaching it again after falling back forces you to build an MSP that can actually hold its ground.

Brian Hoppe sits down with John Snyder, CEO of Net Friends, to unpack the company’s journey to $10 million and the mistakes that made its first attempt unsustainable.

Net Friends grew quickly, but growth without enough management, financial discipline, or strategic focus created a business that was difficult to control. The company pursued too many markets, offices, and service models at once, leaving leadership stretched thin and the core managed services business without a clear direction.

John explains how Net Friends returned to $10 million as a focused, pure-play MSP with stronger management, clearer systems, and a much better understanding of what drives profitability.

He also shares his unusual path from the company’s fourth employee to owner and CEO, how a company split unlocked four consecutive years of 40% growth, and why Net Friends replaced its dependence on sales “rock stars” with a repeatable system that helped convert 24 new clients in 2025.

In this episode:

- Why MSPs repeatedly stall around $1 million, $3 million, and $5 million

- How competing business lines consume leadership headspace

- John’s transition from field technician to owner and CEO

- How Net Friends rebuilt its sales and marketing engine

- Why budgeting and profitability are leadership responsibilities

If your MSP is growing but becoming harder to manage, this conversation will help you identify the systems, leadership depth, and financial discipline required to scale with stability.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

2:23 - Growth ceilings and the missing management layer

5:12 - Why Net Friends had to reach $10 million twice

9:54 - Leadership headspace and the cost of divided focus

17:16 - John’s journey from employee to owner

27:15 - How focus produced four years of 40% growth

33:26 - Preparing an MSP for ownership transition

39:45 - Choosing the right business partner

44:34 - Rebuilding sales around a repeatable system

49:35 - How cold calling and marketing worked together

54:05 - The profitability target for a $10 million MSP

1:01:37 - John’s biggest leadership mistake

1:07:31 - Where to connect with John Snyder

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

John Snyder:

https://www.netfriends.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsnyder-netfriends/

Can your MSP scale without you? Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

AI is not another tool MSPs can simply buy and roll out. It is a fundamental shift in what a small team can accomplish.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Damien Stevens, founder and CEO of Servosity and host of MSP Mindset, to explore how agentic AI is already changing the way MSPs operate. Damien’s journey started with a personal crisis.

When his daughter experienced serious health issues, he needed to reclaim time without slowing down the business. That forced him to stop experimenting with AI at the surface level and start rebuilding real workflows around agents. The result was roughly 20 hours saved every week, a support team producing significantly more without additional hires, and a company-wide shift in how people think about their work. But this conversation is not really about technology. It is about leadership. Damien explains why MSP owners need to get involved personally, how to create a culture where employees are comfortable automating parts of their jobs, and why the best leaders will reinvest that new capacity instead of simply cutting headcount.

The larger opportunity is helping clients do the same. MSPs can move beyond keeping systems running and begin helping businesses increase revenue, improve margins, accelerate workflows, and accomplish things that were previously impossible.

In this episode:

• Why MSP leaders cannot delegate AI entirely to the CTO
• Damien’s three-step process for introducing agentic AI
• How one employee automated roughly six hours of daily work
• Why revenue per employee and employee satisfaction can rise together
• How MSPs can turn internal AI experience into a new client offering

If you lead an MSP and want to turn AI from hype into operational leverage, this conversation offers a practical place to begin.

Key Moments

0:00 - Welcome to the $10 Million MSP

1:08 - Why this AI conversation is different

3:26 - The personal crisis that forced Damien to find leverage

7:20 - Why MSPs cannot afford to sit out the AI shift

10:08 - Moving from IT cost center to business growth partner

16:39 - Damien’s three-step process for adopting agentic AI

20:04 - Helping employees automate their own repetitive work

25:07 - Redesigning the company around new capabilities

30:58 - The leadership and cultural side of AI adoption

42:47 - Connecting agents to real MSP business systems

47:11 - Automating mechanical work while preserving human judgment

58:08 - How MSP leaders can get started

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Damien Stevens:

https://servosity.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dstevens/

Can your MSP scale without you? Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment. brianhoppe.com/assessment

Most MSPs do not have a sales problem because they hired the wrong personality. They have a sales problem because they never built a system.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Brian Strong, CEO of TenHats and former founder of Vendor Registry, to break down the sales process behind growing an MSP from roughly $2 million to nearly $20 million in five years.

Brian explains why marketing cannot close deals on its own, how outside sales helped the company move upmarket, and why owner-led sales eventually limits growth. The conversation also explores the center of influence strategy responsible for much of Brian’s success.

He shares how to find the right relationships, stay top of mind, and generate stronger opportunities without relying on endless cold outreach.

In this episode:

- How TenHats grew from roughly $2 million to nearly $20 million

- Why MSPs need a sales system that does not depend on the owner

- How outside sales helped the company move upmarket

- Why centers of influence drive most of Brian’s prospecting - How to build valuable COI relationships through existing clients

- The leadership shift required to become a true CEO

If you’re an MSP owner trying to build a repeatable sales engine, move beyond owner-led growth, or generate better opportunities through strategic relationships, this is the conversation.

Key Moments

0:00 - Welcome to The $10 Million MSP

1:07 - Meet Brian Strong

2:23 - What MSP owners get wrong about sales

6:25 - Selling more than $100,000 in new MRR

10:38 - From SaaS founder back to the MSP industry

14:47 - Growing an MSP from $2 million to nearly $20 million

18:48 - Moving beyond owner-led sales

23:37 - Building an upmarket sales team

29:21 - Centers of influence as a growth strategy

36:44 - Building and managing COI relationships

45:40 - Starting with existing clients

49:31 - Asking for referrals the right way

53:10 - Why COI strategies fail

58:12 - Should sales or operations come first?

1:00:32 - Brian’s biggest leadership lessons

1:04:14 - Rapid-fire questions

1:09:10 - Where to connect with Brian Strong

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Brian Strong:

https://tenhats.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-strong/

Can your MSP scale without you?

Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

Organic growth becomes much more predictable when sales stops depending on the owner and starts operating like a system.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Billy Adams, president of ACS, to unpack how he helped grow the family-owned MSP from roughly $3.5 million to nearly $14 million in revenue without acquisitions, private equity, or outside investors.

Billy breaks down the sales engine behind that growth, including how ACS built a team of SDRs and BDRs, created clear activity targets, developed talent internally, and generated enough pipeline to recover after unexpectedly losing $150,000 in monthly recurring revenue.

The conversation also explores ACS’s move into managed AI. Billy explains why MSPs need to help clients establish AI governance before chasing automation, how ACS is turning that guidance into recurring revenue, and why every AI initiative should begin with a valuable business outcome.

Billy also shares his plans to keep ACS independent, potentially transition the company to a third generation, and continue building toward $30 million while protecting the culture and relationships that made the business successful.

In this episode:

• How ACS grew from $3.5 million to nearly $14 million without M&A
• Why MSPs need a repeatable sales engine instead of one salesperson
• How ACS generates 8 to 10 new sales appointments each week
• Why peer groups and EOS became critical to Billy’s growth
• How AI governance can become a new managed service
• Why AI projects should begin with business outcomes, not tools
• How Billy is thinking about independence and family succession
• What leading with emotion taught Billy about people and leadership

If you’re an MSP owner trying to create predictable organic growth, move beyond owner-led sales, or find a practical way to bring AI services to your clients, this is the conversation.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:06 - Meet Billy Adams

2:00 - What MSP owners misunderstand about organic growth

5:35 - Growing ACS from $3.5M to nearly $14M

7:07 - Replacing $150K in lost monthly recurring revenue

11:35 - Building a repeatable MSP sales engine

18:00 - Investing in salespeople and developing talent internally

23:00 - The activity and metrics behind the pipeline

25:29 - EOS, leadership layers, and the fractional integrator

29:51 - Building an AI practice inside an MSP

32:28 - AI security, governance, and acceptable-use policies

38:24 - Connecting AI to meaningful business outcomes

41:00 - Turning managed AI into recurring revenue

49:50 - Staying independent and planning the future of ACS

55:09 - Billy’s biggest leadership mistakes

58:23 - Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

1:02:15 - Where to connect with Billy

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Billy Adams:

https://acs.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamadamsjr/

Can your MSP scale without you? Take the free MSP Maturity Assessment.

brianhoppe.com/assessment

The people who help you get to one stage of growth are not always the people who can help you scale to the next one.

As MSPs grow, the business changes. The owner can’t be the hero. The best tech can’t be the only person clients call. And the team cannot keep relying on individual effort instead of process, structure, and leadership.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Willis Cantey, founder of Cantey Tech, to unpack how he grew a two-person IT support company into a roughly $27 million MSP with around 120 employees.

This conversation gets into the real work of scaling an MSP, from getting out into the community and building trust, to hiring salespeople, investing in management before the payoff shows up, and moving away from the “Superman cape” model that keeps small MSPs stuck.

Willis also shares what he has learned through acquisitions, organic growth, leadership development, vertical focus, private equity, and the hard people decisions that come with building a more mature company.

In this episode:

- Why MSP owners need to get out from behind the desk to grow

- How Cantey Tech scaled through relationships, sales, and referrals

- Why investing in management can shrink margins before it improves the business

- How to move beyond the “hero tech” model and build a process-driven company

- Why holding onto the wrong people too long can cost clients, culture, and growth

- What Willis learned from acquisitions, integration, and protecting culture

- How to develop leaders without forcing great techs into management roles

If you’re an MSP owner trying to grow beyond founder-led chaos, build a stronger leadership team, and create a company that can scale without depending on superheroes, this is the conversation.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:07 - Meet Willis Cantey

1:29 - Growing from $5M to $10M

3:23 - Buying and building Cantey Tech

8:33 - Scaling to $27M and 120 employees

11:25 - Investing in management before the payoff

19:42 - Moving beyond the “Superman cape” model

24:22 - The cost of holding onto the wrong people

27:30 - Decisions that created disproportionate growth

30:39 - Vertical focus, markets, and specialization

39:43 - Acquisitions, culture, and integration

45:14 - Organic growth and sales strategy

48:01 - Developing leaders inside the company

58:03 - The role of the CEO at scale

1:01:52 - Willis’ biggest leadership mistake

1:03:31 - Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

1:06:16 - Where to connect with Willis

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Willis Cantey:

https://canteytech.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/williscantey/

Download the framework I use with $10M–$100M MSP owners:

https://brianhoppe.com/blueprint/

A cybersecurity practice that actually sells. Not because the stack is better, but because the client finally understands the risk.

Most MSPs know they need to mature their security offering. The harder part is getting clients to care, getting the team aligned, and turning cybersecurity into a strategic revenue engine instead of another set of tools.

Brian Hoppe sits down with Jesse Miller, founder of Power PSA Consulting and creator of the Power Gryd vCISO system, to unpack what it really takes to build a cybersecurity practice inside an MSP.

This conversation gets into the shift from selling controls to selling risk management, why paid assessments change the entire client conversation, and how strategic advisory can increase client lifetime value. Jesse also shares lessons from scaling an MSP from 5 people to 75, building a cyber program the hard way, navigating internal friction, and why vertical focus will matter even more as AI changes the industry.

In this episode:

• Why cybersecurity practices fail when MSPs lead with tools instead of risk
• How paid risk assessments create better buyers and stronger relationships
• Why vCSO and vCISO should be treated as real advisory services, not bundled extras
• How to align sales, service, and leadership before launching a new practice
• Why specialization, vertical focus, and strategic consulting are becoming harder to avoid

If you’re an MSP owner trying to move beyond reactive IT, build stronger client relationships, and create a more valuable advisory-led business, this is the conversation.

Key Moments

0:00 - Introduction

1:06 - Meet Jesse Miller

2:06 - Why MSP growth is simple, but not easy

4:09 - Jesse’s path from telecom to MSP cybersecurity

10:34 - Selling risk management instead of security tools

18:18 - Why every client needs a paid risk assessment

23:49 - Building true vCISO and vCSO advisory services

33:09 - Leadership lessons from launching a cyber practice

42:35 - Letting go, building smarter teams, and avoiding shiny object decisions

47:49 - AI, specialization, and the future of MSP strategy

56:00 - Jesse’s biggest leadership mistake

57:45 - Rapid-fire questions and closing thoughts

1:01:08 - Where to connect with Jesse

Connect

Brian Hoppe:

https://brianhoppe.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhoppe/

Jesse Miller:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/secopswarrior/

https://powerpsa.com/