In 2023, testimony about unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) moved from internet forums to Congress — under oath, on the public record.

In this episode of Messy Minded, we unpack what was actually said during the House Oversight hearing, including claims from former intelligence officer David Grusch about alleged crash-retrieval programs and “non-human biologics.” We also revisit the now-famous Navy encounters involving David Fravor and Ryan Graves, including the near-miss incidents, the Gimbal and GoFast videos, and what those recordings do — and do not — show.

What was presented as firsthand evidence?

What was secondhand testimony?

What has been officially confirmed — and what remains unproven?

Along the way, we look at why public reaction was surprisingly muted, how intelligence agencies perfected the art of “neither confirm nor deny,” and why both scientists and lawmakers are calling for better data sharing and oversight.

Astronomer Professor Chris Impey joins in to help ground the conversation in astrophysics, probability, and the realities of interstellar travel.

No tinfoil hats required — just curiosity, skepticism, and a willingness to sit in the uncomfortable middle.

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