Executive pastors and second-chair leaders are often responsible for turning a senior leader’s vision into action—but what happens when there are more ideas than the organization can realistically execute?

Holly Tate of The Ready Network joins Phil and Tyler to discuss sustainable growth, second-chair leadership, and becoming “yes-obsessed.” Holly introduces the Yes Test, a five-question framework that helps church leaders evaluate new opportunities, protect organizational focus, and determine what deserves a yes—and what needs a no.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Holly Tate

• 💻 More From Holly 

• 💻The Ready Network 

• 📩 Contact Holly - [email protected]

Upcoming Events

• Harbor Network Conference — Fort Myers, Florida - 

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

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🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

03:01 — Holly Tate’s Leadership Journey

09:18 — Helping Leaders and Teams Prepare for Growth

12:59 — What It Means to Be Yes-Obsessed

16:21 — The Yes Test for Second-Chair Leaders

20:24 — Five Questions for Evaluating New Opportunities

28:01 — Leading Up and Earning a Seat at the Table

34:00 — Building Healthier Church Boards

36:23 — Using AI to Help Executives Stay Focused

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Zach Cochran, Vice President of Operations at The Gospel Coalition, joins Phil and Tyler to discuss his transition from executive pastor to nonprofit second-chair leadership, the importance of operational leaders in the church, and TGC’s work helping Christians navigate artificial intelligence. He also shares practical wisdom for XPs considering a ministry transition and explains why healthy church leadership often requires patience with the slow, relational nature of ministry.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow The Gospel Coalition

• 💻 The Gospel Coalition Articles 

• 💻 TGC AI Policy 

• 🎙️Silicon Spiritualities — TGC podcast exploring AI, its formative effects, and questions about wise Christian engagement with artificial intelligence.

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

02:00 Zach’s Journey from College Athletics to Ministry Operations

05:12 Sojourn, Multi-site Ministry, and the Executive Pastor Role

06:52 Moving from Executive Pastor to TGC

12:15 Inside The Gospel Coalition’s Ministry and Resources

15:00 AI, Theology, and the Church

21:28 What XPs Should Know Before Changing Roles

27:00 Unifying the Church and Equipping Pastors

30:12 Resources for Executive Pastors and Second-Chair Leaders

32:24 AI, “Slop Scanning,” and Closing Thoughts

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Dr. Warren Bird joins Phil Taylor and Tyler Drebits to discuss decades of research into the trends shaping churches in America. Warren shares his journey from pastor and church planter to researcher and author, including the unexpected opportunities that led to a writing career spanning 35 books.

The conversation focuses on Warren’s latest research into multisite churches and large churches. He shares findings about the continued growth of multisite, the increasing importance of small groups, post-pandemic attendance and spiritual vitality, and the challenges churches face around campus leadership, video teaching, succession, and organizational structure.

Warren also takes listeners behind the scenes of large-scale church research, explaining how his team identifies churches, builds reliable databases, gathers responses, and works to communicate findings responsibly.

Finally, Warren discusses his newest book, Becoming a Future-Ready Church, and the need for churches to prepare for future generations by adapting their methods without changing the gospel. He also shares areas he hopes to research next, including multisite leadership, family succession, and ministry residencies.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Dr. Bird

• 💻 Dr. Warren Bird’s Website

• 💻 Latest Research on Multi-Site Churches  

• 💻 ECFA.org

• 📕Dr. Bird’s Latest Book - Becoming a Future-Ready Church

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

02:59 Warren’s Journey from Pastor to Researcher

05:42 The Latest Multisite Church Research

08:20 The Resurgence of Large Churches

12:49 Churches Get Bigger by Getting Smaller

17:00 Are Churches Moving Away from Multisite?

20:15 Live Teaching, Video Teaching, and Campus Leadership

26:15 Succession and the Future of Multisite Churches

32:43 Behind the Scenes of Church Research

41:04 Becoming a Future-Ready Church and What Warren Is Studying Next

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Most executive pastors spend their careers helping churches grow by building systems, hiring staff, and delegating responsibilities. But what happens when the goal isn't building a larger Sunday gathering at all?

In this episode, Phil sits down with Lucas Pulley of the Underground Network to explore one of America's largest microchurch movements. Lucas shares his own ministry journey—from campus ministry in Illinois to leading decentralized networks of mission-focused microchurches—and explains how the Underground has developed systems that support hundreds of autonomous missionary leaders while preserving contextual freedom.

The conversation explores what defines a church, why mission is essential alongside worship and community, how decentralized networks stay healthy without becoming overly institutionalized, and what executive pastors in traditional church settings can learn from movement thinking.

Whether your church is 100 people or 10,000, this conversation offers valuable insights into leadership, delegation, coaching, governance, and creating structures that empower people for mission rather than simply managing programs.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Drew 

• 🗣️Follow the Underground Network

• 💻Tampa Underground

• 💻 Underground Network 

• 📕On the Verge By Alan Hirsch & Dave Ferguson

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

02:34 Lucas Pulley's ministry journey

10:48 What is the Underground Network?

16:16 Defining the microchurch model

20:20 Mission-specific vs. distributive microchurches

29:03 Building systems for decentralized leadership

37:32 Supporting networks across the country

41:35 Challenges of leading a decentralized movement

48:07 The place of microchurches within the broader Church

50:55 Final reflections and ministry resources

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Phil and Tyler sit down with Drew Hyun, Lead Pastor of Hope Church NYC and Executive Director of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship (EHD), to explore why emotional health is foundational for effective ministry leadership.

Drew shares his ministry journey—from serving under Pete Scazzero at New Life Fellowship to planting Hope Church NYC and eventually stepping into leadership of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship. He reflects on how becoming a lead pastor revealed the importance of emotional health in ways he had never fully understood before.

The conversation explores why executive pastors and highly driven leaders often struggle with emotional awareness, the relationship between emotional maturity and ministry effectiveness, and practical ways leaders can begin pursuing greater self-awareness. Drew also offers an inside look at the future of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship, including the School of Emotionally Healthy Leadership, a new Order of Emotionally Healthy Leaders, and Pete Scazzero's upcoming book on redefining success in ministry.

This episode is a thoughtful invitation for church leaders to pursue both the Great Commandment and the Great Commission, recognizing that healthy ministry begins with healthy leaders.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Drew 

• 🗣️Follow Emotionally Healthy Discipleship  

• 💻Drew’s Website

• 💻 Emotionally Healthy Discipleship Website   

• 📕Emotionally Healthy Discipleship Resources 

• ⛪️ Hope Church NYC

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

02:54 Drew Hyun's ministry journey

09:12 Why emotionally healthy leadership matters

14:08 Growing in self-awareness as a leader

19:00 Practical first steps toward emotional health

23:50 Leading two organizations without burning out

35:09 The future of Emotionally Healthy Discipleship

42:00 Resources and next steps for church leaders

42:53 Wrap up

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Rich Birch joins Phil and Tyler for a wide-ranging conversation about church growth, executive leadership, and helping churches remove barriers that prevent people from encountering Jesus. Drawing from decades of executive pastor experience and hundreds of conversations through the UnSeminary Podcast, Rich shares the mission behind his work and the insights he's gathered from one of the largest ongoing executive pastor surveys.

The conversation explores what today's executive pastors are experiencing, including an encouraging sense of optimism alongside widespread staff exhaustion. Rich discusses why people—not finances or facilities—remain the greatest concern for executive pastors and offers practical ideas for improving staff health and leadership development.

Rich also challenges a common assumption about church growth by arguing that many churches don't actually have a "back door" problem—they have a "front door" problem. He explains why churches should become obsessed with the guest experience, simplify every step of the first-time visitor journey, and intentionally build systems that help newcomers connect. Rich explains why personal invitations continue to be the single greatest driver of church growth and offers practical ways churches can equip and encourage their people to invite others consistently.

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Rich 

• 🗣️Follow UnSeminenary  

• 💻UnSeminenary Website

• 💻 Executive Pastor Direct Survey    

• 📕Unlocking Your Church's Invite Culture by Rich Birch

• 📕Church Growth Flywheel by Rich Birch

• ⛪️ Connexus Church

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

 07:55 – Rich's Mission and the Story Behind UnSeminary

11:20 – Executive Pastor Survey: Hopeful but Tired

20:40 – Why People Are Every Executive Pastor's Biggest Challenge

27:20 – The Front Door Problem: Helping First-Time Guests Connect

39:30 – Seeing Church Through the Eyes of a First-Time Visitor

42:00 – Building an Invite Culture That Fuels Growth

50:25 – Encouragement for Executive Pastors

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

Phil and Tyler sit down with longtime executive pastor, author, coach, and leadership mentor Dan Reiland. Dan reflects on his ministry journey, beginning as John Maxwell’s second intern and eventually becoming one of the pioneering executive pastors in the modern church movement. He shares stories from his years at Skyline Church, the Enjoy ministry, and his 25-year tenure at 12Stone Church.

The conversation explores how the executive pastor role has evolved over the decades, the challenges and opportunities of church growth, and the importance of balancing organizational leadership with spiritual leadership. Dan offers a behind-the-scenes look at 12Stone’s decision to launch five campuses in a single Sunday, including lessons learned from rapid growth and the importance of strong systems.

Dan also discusses the calling and partnership between senior pastors and executive pastors, recounting the remarkable story of how God led him and Kevin Myers into ministry together. The conversation turns to leadership development, mentoring, generational learning, and the growing challenge of helping leaders interpret culture in a rapidly changing world.

Dan’s strongest leadership conviction after four decades in ministry is:prayer is not preparation for the work—it is the work. 

Mentioned Resources

• 🗣️Follow Dan 
• 💻Dan’s Website 
• 📕Shoulder to Shoulder: Strengthening the Church by Supporting Your Pastor by Dan Reiland
• 📕Amplified Leadership: Five Practices to Establish Influence, Build People, and Impact Others by Dan Reiland
• ⛪️12Stone Church
• ⛪️ Skyline Church

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

 03:50 – From John Maxwell’s Intern to Executive Pastor

08:26 – How the Executive Pastor Role Has Evolved

12:02 – Launching Five Campuses in One Sunday

19:00 – Supporting and Strengthening Senior Pastors

21:00 – God’s Calling to Partner with Kevin Myers

27:16 – Mentoring Leaders and Interpreting Culture

31:00 – Addressing Anxiety in Today’s Generation

32:05 – Prayer as the Foundation of Church Growth

35:03 – Developing One More Leader

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

In Episode 10 of Backstage Pastors™️, Phil and Tyler sit down with Becca Knudsen, Executive Pastor at Arvada Vineyard Church, to discuss her unique ministry journey, leading alongside a nationally influential lead pastor, and navigating major organizational transitions. Becca shares how an unexpected path—from Young Life leader to opera student to church administrator—ultimately led her into executive pastoral leadership.

The conversation explores the realities of serving at a church whose lead pastor, Jay Pathak, also serves as the national director of Vineyard USA. Becca reflects on the spiritual, organizational, and personal challenges that accompanied that transition, including increased responsibility, leadership development, and organizational growing pains.

She also provides an inside look at Arvada Vineyard’s decision to move away from a multi-site model and transition campuses into independent churches. Becca explains the discernment process, lessons learned, and why the church would still choose to plant churches in the future—while intentionally building toward eventual independence.

Mentioned Resources

• ⛪️ Arvada Vineyard Church
• 💻 Learn more about the Vineyard movement
• 📅 Check out the Vineyard Gatherings
• 📅The Church Hub Cohorts

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

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🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

 03:47 – Becca’s Unconventional Journey into Ministry Leadership

13:18 – Leading Alongside the National Director of Vineyard USA

20:16 – The Challenges of Organizational Change and Staff Transitions

22:45 – Why Arvada Vineyard Reconsidered the Multi-Site Model

27:00 – Discernment, Independence, and Church Planting Strategy

35:00 – How the Congregation Experienced the Transition

37:32 – Building a Staff Rule of Life

42:00 – Sabbath, Solitude, Friendship, and Sustainable Ministry

46:00 – Final Leadership Reflections and Closing Thoughts

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

In this episode of Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil and Tyler welcome veteran executive pastor and leadership consultant Tim Stevens for an in-depth conversation on ministry leadership, organizational health, and sustainable service in the second chair. Tim reflects on nearly 40 years of ministry experience spanning nonprofit leadership, Granger Community Church, Vanderbloemen, Willow Creek, and now Leading Smart.

The conversation explores the evolving role of the executive pastor, including the tension between being highly executive-minded versus deeply pastoral. Tim shares insights from his e-book 40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul, unpacking lessons about visionary leaders and integrators, why systems are actually pastoral tools, healthy governance, leadership burnout, and managing energy for long-term ministry health.

Tim also gives listeners an inside look at stepping into Willow Creek during one of the church’s most difficult seasons and explains how focusing on “the next right thing” helped guide the rebuilding process. 

Guest Resources

• 🗣️Follow Tim 
• 📕40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul
• 💻 Right Roles Assessment
• 💻LeadingSmart.com
• 🎙️Tim’s Podcast 
• 📅Leading Smart 2026 Gathering 

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

🎤 ⁠Spotify

CHAPTERS

 04:05 Introducing Tim Stevens

07:18 Tim’s Ministry Journey and Leadership Background 10:18 Executive Pastor Wiring and Leadership Styles

13:42 40 Lessons in 40 Years

15:26 Why Visionary Leaders Need Integrators

18:01 Why Systems Are Pastoral

22:00 Sustainable Leadership and Managing Energy

26:06 Board Alignment and Healthy Governance

30:30 Leaving Church Ministry for Vanderbloemen and Leadership Consulting

34:10 Rebuilding Willow Creek Through Crisis

39:58 How Leading Smart Helps Churches Thrive

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

In this episode of the Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz welcome Nathan Young and Dave Hartman, co-authors of How to Be Second to discuss the identity, strengths, and challenges of second-chair leadership. The conversation explores why some leaders are uniquely wired for supporting roles, how executive pastors and operational leaders thrive, and why being second is not a stepping stone but a meaningful destination.

Guest Resources

• 🗣️Follow David 

• 🗣️Follow Nathan

• 📕How to Be Second by Nathan Young and Dave Hartman

• 💻How to Be Second website: howtobesecond.com 

From Our Partners

💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org  

Connect with Phil Taylor

✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 

📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ 

Connect with Tyler Drewitz

✉️ ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠

The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.

LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

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CHAPTERS

01:31 Phil’s Upcoming Church Projects and Travel

03:31 Introducing How to Be Second

06:00 Why Nathan and Dave Wrote the Book

10:00 Discovering the Identity of Second-Chair Leaders

17:17 The Difference Between “2s” and “2ICs”

24:23 Who the Book Is Really For

29:48 Imposter Syndrome and “Knowing What 10 Is”

33:07 What They Would Add to the Book Today

39:39 Final Encouragement and Resources

– –

Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. 

Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark