Today's guest is Phillip Vincent.

Phillip has been in the real estate business for 25 years and found my niche working with the senior living industry and helping families as they transition. Join Sam and Phillip in today's episode.

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Introduction to Senior Living Industry [00:00:00]

Philip Vincent's Real Estate Journey [00:00:53]

Connecting People in Senior Living [00:04:52]

The acquisition process [00:08:49]

The cost versus value guide [00:09:33]

Scaling the business [00:14:18]

The Challenges of Estate Sales [00:16:36]

Revenue and Costs of Estate Sales [00:17:29]

The Difficulty of Getting Rid of Stuff [00:18:10]

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Connect with Phillip:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MomsHouseCertification

Web: momshouse.com/sam

Connect with Sam:

I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/

Email me → [email protected]

SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f

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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:

Phillip Vincent (00:00:00) - Senior living industry is like a car dealership that does not buy the trade in. So they sell cars all day long. They sell them, sell them, sell them, but they don't buy the trade in. And what's happening is think about the car dealership industry. If they stopped buying trades today, would people stop buying new cars? No. Would it slow the whole dang process down tremendously? Yes. Yeah, because I can't buy the new $80,000 truck until I sell my old $50,000, you know? Right. Right. And so that's what and by the way, this this senior limit industry, they say they push them out the door. They spend millions of dollars a month to get people to come do tours only to push them right back out the door and say, go talk to a real estate agent. And when do you guys figure that out? Please come back and see us.

Sam Wilson (00:00:40) - Welcome to the How to Scale commercial Real Estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.

Sam Wilson (00:00:53) - Phillip Vincent has been in the real estate business for 25 years, but he found his niche working with the senior living industry in helping families as they transition. Philip, welcome to the show.

Phillip Vincent (00:01:03) - Sam Thank you for having me on here.

Sam Wilson (00:01:05) - Absolutely. The pleasure's mine. Philip there. Three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90s or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?

Phillip Vincent (00:01:13) - Sure. Where did I start? I started in this business backwards. I started off building new houses when I was 20 years old, so I just started off in development. I worked my way back to being a wholesaler, and so most people do the exact opposite. They want to be a wholesaler and work their way into those bigger things. And I just found my personality. I didn't like the timelines of those new creation of permits and dealing with cities and all their inspectors and all those things. I just and all of that was because I like to pick out the colours.

Phillip Vincent (00:01:44) - And so I'm not a home builder anymore. I don't consider myself one. I'm really more of a connector of people, a lead aggregator, if you will. And I'm excited to talk about with you, with everyone listening today about what we do.

Sam Wilson (00:01:56) - Yeah, absolutely. And just just to give our listeners here a quick preface, this show is 99.9% of the time focused on commercial real estate. But I think this will be a fun conversation for us here today, Phillip, because you're going to give us some insights on how to scale maybe something on the single family residence side of things, which people always tell us. They say you can't scale single family. And I, you know, there's some there's some exceptions to that, obviously. Yeah. But anyway, before before I steal all of your thunder, I just want to kind of put that preview in there that, hey, you know, we're going to talk about something different today. I'm excited about it. I know you're excited about it, so let's kick it off.

Sam Wilson (00:02:30) - What do you do now that you said that you told us initially you've gone from X or you've gone from Z back to A I guess, what do you do now in the wholesale side of your business?

Phillip Vincent (00:02:41) - Yeah. And so I won't bore you guys with the whole I've been in real estate for 25 years story but in that I've always been looking for where are the best leads coming from? Where are the best leads? Me And you were having a beer right now. We would talk about where are we getting our leads from? Where where do we procure this stuff? Where does the leads happen? And I was like everybody else. And, you know, the eight, nine, 2008 and nine downturn, I was looking at REO properties or bank owned properties like everyone was. Even to this day, people are like, Oh, you buy foreclosures? No, not. Not at all. Hardly ever do I buy a foreclosure. Um, and in 2011, I discovered what seems so obvious when I explain it to you guys.

Phillip Vincent (00:03:16) - It's kind of like when peanut butter met chocolate. It was like, Well, yeah, of course that's who's selling their house. So I want you guys if you're if you buy single family houses, if you're not driving, close your eyes and tell me, what was the average age of the last five houses you bought? Were they 28 years old or were they 82 years old? And almost everybody was like, Oh, yeah, I buy houses from seniors all the time. And I said, Yeah. And what's usually happening in their lives that makes them need to sell their house. And guys, people are like, Oh, this is like probate. Well, this is before that, this is in front of that. And people are like, What a great little niche you have there. And I said, Well, let's talk about the numbers For all my numbers people out there, it's seven out of ten Americans over the age of 65 will live in assisted care before they pass away. Seven out of ten.

Phillip Vincent (00:04:01) - And there's 10,000 people turning 65 every day. Just because I've been doing senior living since 2011, no one listening right now is behind right now. This year that we're in, 2023 is the first year of the oldest boomers starting to go into senior living. So we have what's called in the industry a silver tsunami that's so big that's coming. Our own government doesn't know what to do. They're scared. We should all be scared. It's the first time ever two that we have more over 65 year olds in our country than we do under 18. Well, guys, that's not good for our gross domestic product and for just the wait on the system. It's assuming what's what does the tsunami do? They're going to live in this care. And everybody says they're going to wait for their inheritance. You're not probably going to inherit your parent's house. They're going to need to sell that house to pay for their care because care is going up and people are living longer. And so what I teach people to do was a long story to how to get to what I do.

Phillip Vincent (00:04:52) - I, I connect people that are moving their moms or dads into senior living. That is the flash point of when they say, man, we need to sell the house because the place I always say, Sam, if you and I are brothers and we go to pick out a place, we pick out the cheapest one for mom, or of course we pick the nicest one. It's it's our mother. Of course, we pick out the nicest one and she's got a pension of 2800 a month. The place we picked out 6000 a month. And I look at you, Sam, and say, you're my more affluent brother, Sam. So can you pay that $3,300 a month difference And you say no or you say, Yeah, I'll do it for a month. But dude, then we gotta sell.

Sam Wilson (00:05:25) - Sell the house, right?

Phillip Vincent (00:05:27) - Instantly. And then what do we do? We go, Uh, man, I don't live in town where Mom lives. You don't live in town where Mom lives.

Phillip Vincent (00:05:32) - And that's the house she's lived in for 40 or 50 years. Right. So everybody calls a real estate agent. Let me say and let me give you guys a good analogy of what this industry is. Senior living industry is like a car dealership that does not buy the trade in. So they sell cars all day long. They sell them, sell them, sell them, but they don't buy the trade in. And what's happening is think about the car dealership industry if. They stopped buying trades today. Would people stop buying new cars? No. Would it slow the holding process down tremendously? Yeah, because I can't buy the new $80,000 truck until I sell my old $50,000, you know? Right. Right. And so that's what and by the way, this this senior limit industry, they say they push them out the door. They spend millions of dollars a month to get people to come do tours only to push them right back out the door and say, go talk to a real estate agent.

Phillip Vincent (00:06:17) - And when do you guys figure that out? Please come back and see us. Mm Well, what a broken process that is. Because with real estate agent, by the way, I am a real estate agent. I have my license and. And I'm an investor. So if you guys are listening right now, you can be an investor and a real estate agent, but it's not how you show up in senior living. I show up as a senior transition specialist. I'm there to meet the family at their level, unlock the equity out of their home, help them with the stuff, help them with your VA benefits, help them with placement agencies. We work with all the big placement agencies. There's people out there that are in their lane in senior living. And if you and I are brothers, it's a very traumatic time for families that get along. Sam Don't get along during this process. They just don't. It's just hard because no one wants to think their mom is getting older. I always say you never take a healthy mom to senior living.

Phillip Vincent (00:07:06) - You wouldn't do that. There's something going on. It's usually a fall. And so mom's house was designed to ease that burden for the adult children moving their parents into senior living.

Sam Wilson (00:07:17) - Got it. So tell me all the things that you do there again, because I'm not sure in my mind I had this as very simple. I said, All right, cool. Somehow you're finding which we didn't quite get to that yet, I don't think. But you're finding the leads as those people are moving to senior living, you're getting the house under contract and you're selling that off. Is that sure?

Phillip Vincent (00:07:35) - Sure. That's a simple way to say it. That is what we do. And I would say what lives before that is empathy. We always say we're in the hugs and kisses business. If you're very, very transactional, this is not for you. Right? Because senior living will cheer you up and spit you out. And so if you do have love and can lead with love, Senior Living wants you to help them.

Phillip Vincent (00:07:54) - My students nationwide always laugh when they start going out and networking with the right people. Because I teach. I teach my students how to actually build relationships with people in senior living that are giving those families that hard advice at that hard time. Because finding we always call our daughter Judy, by the way, the adult child is helping mom, as we call our daughter Judy. Finding daughter Judy on her own is hard because a lot of times they live the average is 400 miles away from their parents. So that's a fragmented list. And so what we do is we actually work in the senior living industry. And you ask me, what were those again? There was VA in attendance benefits, downsizing companies, placement agencies, elder care attorneys. Of course, the house is what we specialize in, but we all stay in our lane and we go in a holistic approach to help this family. Sometimes they need all of our services, sometimes they need one of our services. But the idea is we lead with love, helping where we can.

Phillip Vincent (00:08:44) - And what's right behind doing this is getting the chance to buy a lot of real estate.

Sam Wilson (00:08:49) - How? How so? How do you acquire and or find these candidates? Like there's there's got to be a way that you identify those potential people to work with.

Phillip Vincent (00:09:00) - Yeah. So I call them favor coupons. All those people I just named. We have a family referral network where we all bring those families to the table and say, Hey, this person needs this. And so I'm actually part of the senior living sales process. I'm part of the CRMs that are in senior living. So if me and you took Mom to go see ABC Senior Living, we end up in the CRM and they'll ask us how we plan on paying for care and we'll say, Oh, we're going to need to sell that house. And they say, Oh, we've got a free resource called Mom's house. Would you like to burn them to come out and take a look and make you a no obligation offer? They can help with the house and the stuff.

Phillip Vincent (00:09:33) - And we say, Of course, why not? We got to I got to fly back to town anyway here soon. I would love to get this taken care of. And you know, when we met with that real estate agent, they said we had to clean the place out the forever home and do the rehab items so we could get that. What's that magic word? Top dollar. I love that word because everybody wants top dollar. I want it. You want it. We all want it. And we use tools like and anyone listening. You guys, this is gold. I'm going to give you gold right now. The cost versus value guide. If you Google cost versus value guide. Sam If you put a $15,000 deck on your house, it cost you 15 grand. How much value did you add to your house? You want to guess?

Sam Wilson (00:10:09) - As much as I value as I find and enjoying the deck.

Phillip Vincent (00:10:12) - Well, that's good. I like that. And by the way, that is the right answer.

Phillip Vincent (00:10:15) - But they actually put numbers against it. It's about $0.63 on the dollar.

Sam Wilson (00:10:19) - Okay.

Phillip Vincent (00:10:20) - So you lose six, seven grand, right? And so imagine our mom's house, it doesn't need one thing. It needs 14 things.

Sam Wilson (00:10:29) - Absolutely.

Phillip Vincent (00:10:30) - Absolutely right. And so and by the way, every item is that everybody's like, what about the kitchen? Kitchen's one of the worst. It's one of the most expensive rooms and it's one that you get the least amount of value back. And so what you'll find is these families are going, well, hold on. If I rehab it the way the real estate agent said, and by the way, guys, it's hard enough to rehab in your own towns. Imagine trying to now rehab a house across the 400 miles away where your mom lives. If you think you're going to get a good deal from the contractors.

Sam Wilson (00:10:56) - No, no.

Phillip Vincent (00:10:57) - No.

Sam Wilson (00:10:58) - Of course you have kids and you work a full time job. And by the way, let's go back to 400 miles away again.

Phillip Vincent (00:11:04) - Yep. And daughter Judy's married and her needy husband's like, Can we get back to our normal lives, brother? I see the weight come off their shoulders all the time. By the way, I haven't said the f word yet. Fulfillment. Um. Being part of Mom's house. Buying real estate this way is the fulfilling way to do real estate. If you've been saying I don't want to do bandit signs, I don't want to do cold calling, I don't want to do text message blasting. It's because it's all that stuff is cheesy. Right? And a lot of people and by the way, I've done all those things I'm telling on myself here. I've done those things in the past until I found this where I'm like, Man, I get to do something good in the world. I get to buy real estate and it's reoccurring too. That's the cool thing When you build relationships like I have with the right people, I'm a tool for them. So if you're a placement agent or an elder care attorney, you need that house to sell, to sell to, to open up those funds so they can get to where they're going.

Sam Wilson (00:11:56) - Um hum.

Sam Wilson (00:11:57) - That's really cool. Yeah, that's a great I mean, that's a much warmer conversation on on for you. You're not going in as the typical and I've I've wholesale some deals over the years and it's like. You know, there's there's just a different approach to to it when you're going in there knowing you're going to wholesale it versus like because you're just going in and trying to get the contract and then get the contract and then go sell it to sell it to your buddy down the street. Like that's a different deal than like, Hey, we're going to come in and actually help you guys get everything you need out of this and get it done and get it done fast and really serve the the customer there in the end as well. So I think that's probably the difference in what you're doing.

Phillip Vincent (00:12:39) - I like to think of it as I'm sitting on the same side of the table as them, and we're looking at the options together, right? And when I clearly show them all their options, whether it's to go down that route of rehabbing and listing retail, I want to show them that.

Phillip Vincent (00:12:52) - And what I found is saying when they show them it honestly, they're like, I didn't want to do that anyway, nor do I know where the money's going to come from. Remember the analogy? I said if mom's pensions 2800 a month and the place we put her in six grand a month, well, we're running up this bill over at the community. Where's the $38,000 going to come from for the rehab? Is that also from Sam? Because come on, Sam, put the money and get back. We'll get it back. Mean. And then does that make you in charge of the rehab now do you pick out is it three tab shingles or architectural shingles or what brand hot water heater. You people don't have time for this, right? And by the way, if they wanted to rehab it, Sam, they would they would have never called me. That's how I look at it. They would already rehab it if the family really wanted or if they wanted to keep it in the family, they would have already done that.

Phillip Vincent (00:13:32) - They would never be in my web. But when they do, they're saying, I don't want to go that retail route. I want this other option. And that's how Mom's house was born.

Sam Wilson (00:13:41) - How scalable is what you do? I mean, do you guys work nationwide? And what's what's your.

Phillip Vincent (00:13:45) - We are nationwide.

Sam Wilson (00:13:46) - Okay.

Phillip Vincent (00:13:47) - Yeah. And so, by the way, if you're that person who runs a big business like a big wholesaling or rehabbing business, this is for you. And what I mean is I'm going to teach you we use the analogy of the crock pot in the vase. And so most real estate investors are crock pots. We're a little utilitarian, we're not pretty. We just get it done. Like you said, we come in brute force and we simmer all day long, Right and right. And that's most people probably listening right now. If I'm being stereotypical, I will teach you how to hire the vase in your town that's already known, liked, and trusted by everyone in senior living.

Phillip Vincent (00:14:18) - And they will go procure your relationships. You get to stay the real estate investor. So that is infinitely scalable because I used to try to, two years ago try to teach crock pot to be more vase like and it just doesn't work.

Sam Wilson (00:14:30) - What do you mean when you say vase?

Phillip Vincent (00:14:32) - Vase means what's a vase? It's a it's beautiful. It's it's you have to caress it. It's more caring. You know what I mean? It's something that you have to treat nicer, right, than a crock pot. I'm going to bang a crock pot on, but a vase. Oh, man, I'm going to hold that differently. And so we use that analogy of like who we are as humans. And so I'm more of a crock pot by nature. And so I had to become more like a vase when I worked in the senior living because it's not brute force. Right, right. And so if you are a person that wants to scale this business, it probably won't be you scaling the networking.

Phillip Vincent (00:15:03) - I'll teach you how to find that vase who's in your town. If you live in Tulsa, I'll find that person that's already in Tulsa that's already been there. Might be a social worker, you know, they probably already have been working in senior living.

Sam Wilson (00:15:13) - Got it? Got it. You'll find that person that that already has the connections in place that that that you need. And in the end, I mean, is the ultimate goal then I guess once you once you've done the and what do you do with the content. I mean this is something that actually a family member of mine was buying an auction company and they're like, Dude, the amount of real estate and contents that come through these same idea is what you're talking about. Different, different stuff. I mean, you certainly have to work alongside of estate sales and people like that. That mean because the estate sales happen, you know, a long, long before people die. Much of the time, I would think.

Phillip Vincent (00:15:49) - If they're if they're downsizing.

Phillip Vincent (00:15:51) - That's true. Yeah. But if they're moving into senior living, they're going to go from on average of 2000 square foot house with maybe a basement filled with things. And they're going to move into a 350 square foot apartment, a condo. They have, you know, 95% too much stuff. And so to answer your question, the stuff can be trickier than the house. Yeah. And I teach all my students to not get into stuff business. I know, like American Pickers and Pawn Stars and all these shows make it look fun to be in the stuff business. I don't want to be in the stuff business. You all end up being a hoarder if I do that. And so you can't. There's not a lot of money in it. And so what I do is I freely refer those out to other people that are in that business. And I wanted to talk about estate sales for just a second. Sure. Everyone has treasures down to trash. We all do in our houses. There's I hate the word.

Phillip Vincent (00:16:36) - I don't like to say junk, but we have treasures down to trash. And depending on how the family meets me is how I help them. If they think everything's worth $1 million, I'm going to have to go find a guy that collects salt and pepper shaker collections because I'll be damned if Dad didn't have all the salt and pepper shakers in the world, right? Or Beanie Babies or whatever it might be. And so the estate sale. What I wanted to say to you is that. I've got a butt for every saddle. Meaning if you have super high end stuff, I know who to call. If you have regular stuff, I know who to call. If you have just needs to be cleaned out, I know who to call. There's not one answer for stuff. It's multiple skilled people in your markets, in your vendors packet, your credibility packet, we call it. And so I want to give you guys a stat that can be scary and shocking. In Saint Louis, the average estate sale cost I'm sorry, the revenue created by putting the sale on like how much all this stuff sells for is between 3 and $5000.

Phillip Vincent (00:17:29) - That's what the that's how much all the stuff sells for the gross sale. Gross sales. What do you think it cost to put the sale on, Sam?

Sam Wilson (00:17:35) - Three grand.

Phillip Vincent (00:17:36) - 3 to $5000. Right.

Sam Wilson (00:17:39) - Wow. Now, that's that's that is everything from the 75,000 to the $7.5 million home. That's this. That is. Yeah.

Phillip Vincent (00:17:48) - And here's why. There's not that many $7.5 million homes.

Sam Wilson (00:17:51) - No, I'm just I'm just trying to.

Phillip Vincent (00:17:52) - Yeah, there was a company that came in and said we're only going to do a state sales 15 grand and above. Well that was 0.01% of the market. So they went out of business, they raised 15 million and they were called everything but the house and they went out of business because they were saying, we don't want 99.9% of the market that has way, way, way less stuff.

Sam Wilson (00:18:09) - Right.

Phillip Vincent (00:18:10) - And you can't even give stuff away right now. You're like your your relative was talking about today's adults are children like in their 20s moving into their they don't want grandma's old bedroom set even though it's probably better than what I would buy at Ikea.

Phillip Vincent (00:18:24) - You can't give the China away. They don't have a can't put it in the dishwasher. They don't even want it. Right. And so stuff is very hard. We help them with the stuff because the better we help with the stuff, the easier it is for them to move in to the community.

Sam Wilson (00:18:36) - Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We used to buy, you know, we did the foreclosure circuit like you were talking about there early on in that. Even then, we would just when we would buy the house, we'd walk in. It's full of stuff. I would just call the local. Thrift store or whoever, and they would just send a truck out. I mean, they'd clean out appliances, the whole the whole shooting match, just like I just I'm not messing with a house full of stuff, which was really sad to see. I guess in that situation, houses full of stuff.

Phillip Vincent (00:19:05) - Just lots of pictures, right? You see the like, it's like, don't who's going to take your pictures? You know.

Sam Wilson (00:19:11) - I wish stuff like that. We got boxes of photos till I'm like, why do we still have these? Can we scan these in? But I digress. I digress. This is really interesting. Philip Love, I love what you're doing. I like the approach that you're taking. It is definitely nuanced, but it also serves. I think that's that's the cool part about what you're doing. You're not just thinking there's nothing wrong with making a buck. I served a lot of people even when we bought and sold wholesale houses that, you know, they were in a pinch. They wanted out, they needed money, they needed it like then. And so we bought it and they moved on. But it was very transactional, I think, as you said. And I think that's what sets up sets apart what you're doing in that. Like you said, you're sitting on both sides of the table and I really like the way that you acquire these clients of yours too. I think that's really cool because, I mean, it's not it's not direct mail, cold call, it's not the bandit signs.

Sam Wilson (00:20:00) - It's not, you know, Google ads. It's none of the none of the normal channels in order to find a very motivated seller. I mean, in this case, I mean, this is a highly motivated seller. It's like when you get this done, when you do it now and we don't have time to monkey around with it. So think that's very, very fascinating.

Phillip Vincent (00:20:14) - Your whole life changes when you only work with people that have raised their hand and said, I need to sell my house, right? Instead of like trying, you know, what is direct mail? It's basically spraying and praying. Right? And I don't I like direct mail. I'm not against direct mail. I'm just saying why? You know, if you think about it, why are you mailing to people over 65 have lived there 20 years and have equity? Why are we mailing to that list? Right. That's a pretty common one. Well, it's because you're waiting for them to say, Oh, now is the time.

Phillip Vincent (00:20:38) - And my whole business is they've already raised their hand and said it's you know, there's probably about ten reasons why these are the best leads. And number one is I don't have to convince them of motivation at all. Right? They had it before they ever got to me, right?

Sam Wilson (00:20:50) - Right. Yeah. No, that's very, very cool. Philip, is there anything else that that you want to talk about today that haven't covered thoughts about your business, thoughts about your approach? Anything on that front that we should chat about before we wrap this up?

Phillip Vincent (00:21:04) - It's a bold statement, but if you don't take this seriously and you are a person that buy a single family houses, you will be buying houses from someone else that did over the next 15 years. That's how big this wave is. And the senior living industry doesn't know it. But the best real estate lead source that's out there and I'm shining a big, bright light on it. So I'm out here today talking to people. And if you are a person that wants to buy a single family homes in perpetuity, right, at least the next 15 years as this wave comes through, a once in a lifetime wave, take this very seriously.

Phillip Vincent (00:21:36) - And so I'm looking for some of you that are listening. Not all of us. Some of us are too transactional. And so for those right people that say, hey, I think I'm going to be good for this, I love my power couples, you know, we're like, he's a nurse and she's been doing real estate on the side. Like, those are my favorite people because they, they, they get this whole thing. One's a crock pot, one's a vase. Like, oh, we can do this. And so it's fun to have people like that in our program.

Sam Wilson (00:21:58) - Absolutely. Philip, thank you for taking the time to come on today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?

Phillip Vincent (00:22:05) - Yeah, for anyone who wants to learn more about this, just go to Moms house.com/sam Sam mom's house.com/sam Sam.

Sam Wilson (00:22:15) - Awesome Well thank you for using my name there here to tag the listeners here on the show certainly appreciate that thank you very much Philip anything else we can do for you? Please let us know.

Sam Wilson (00:22:24) - And thank again for your time.

Phillip Vincent (00:22:25) - Thank you, guys.

Sam Wilson (00:22:26) - Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.