This week’s podcast episode is a brilliant double date, with Tanya and Toni joined by Salima Saxton and Jennifer Cox aka the founders of the feminist mental health platform, Women Are Mad.

Salima and Jen have been best friends since they met at Cambridge University, bonding over both being state school kids who didn’t quite fit. Today, Salima is a relationship dynamics coach and Jen is a Kleinian psychotherapist, and through Women Are Mad (WAM) they are on a mission to make feelings fashionable.

They say: “WAM is on a mission to help women recognise, articulate and communicate the best toolkit they have: their emotions.” (womenaremad.org)

This is a feisty and fabulous conversation featuring two friends with very different book shelves and reading histories, but a mutual love of stories and words as healing tools.

Psychotherapist Jen is also the author of ‘the best self-help book of 2024’ (The Times/The Sunday Times), Women are Angry 👏👏👏 (are we sensing a theme here?!), and it was great to talk bibliotherapy with a real life therapist.

Interestingly, for a bookish podcast, there is quite a lot of chat about not reading, and swapping around our reading habits for other things as our mental and emotional health requires it.

Both women are dealing with pretty raw nervous systems right now, Jen after birthing her book baby, and Salima currently grieving the death of a father with whom she had a sad and complicated relationship.

And the big takeaway from this conversation for us is that life IS complicated.

And sometimes hard. And heartbreaking. But also gorgeous. And hilarious.

And that the right books at the right time can absolutely help with all of it, but that we also need to know how to read ourselves.

IN THIS EPISODE:

* The profound role stories play in healing - how we can learn so much about ourselves AND find comfort in other people’s journeys.

* The connection between words and emotions, and the unfurling of self-discovery through literature.

* The importance of finding humour in the imperfections of family life.

* Why we're angrier than we think and how to let it out (death to the ‘good girl’ archetype!).

* How all genres of books can have healing properties from Jilly Cooper to Margaret Atwood.

* Why we should all stop using the word ‘but’.

* The importance of sitting with feelings and learning to process them, whether through retreats, journaling, or personal reflection.

SHOW NOTES:

In this episode Salima and Jen reference a super eclectix mix of books and writers, from Sigmund Freud to William Shakespeare. Ready your Wish List… !

* A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett

* The Penelopiad by Margaret Atwood

* Happy Go Lucky by David Sedaris

* I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy

* The White Hotel by D M Thomas

* Love Me! by Marianne Power

* Dream Story by Arthur Schnitzler

* Women are Angry by Jennifer Cox

* Anne of Greengables by Lucy Maud Montgomery

* The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare

Please share with the people you love, let us know what you think, and - of course - what you are reading right now…

Toni (& Tanya)

💛

PS: Next up - our 10th and final episode of this season featuring best-selling author and Substack queen, Emma Gannon .

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