Episode 15 — The Case Against Conversions

Recorded live at the Bonsai headquarters during our on-site meeting in Wheaton, Illinois, this special surprise episode flips the usual studio format on its head.

In this session, Matt pulls team members on stage one by one — completely unannounced — to unpack one of the most misunderstood topics in marketing analytics: why conversion data alone can’t be trusted.

With our entire Bonsai team as the live audience, this episode blends sharp insights with candid reactions, team banter, and genuine moments of honesty about the state of measurement today.

You’ll hear from surprise guest employees across product, analytics, engineering, CX, leadership, and more as they react in real time to questions like:

• Why do conversions fall short as a performance metric?
• Where do marketers get misled?
• What signals actually matter?
• How should teams evolve their measurement mindset in 2025?

It’s fun. It’s heartfelt. It’s chaotic in the best way. And it’s a rare behind-the-scenes look at how the Bonsai team genuinely thinks about truth in marketing.

🎧 Listen now — and join us as we make the case against conversions, live from Wheaton.