Packy and Julia have spent the first five episodes of Age of Miracles diving into the past and present of nuclear fission—before jumping from the yin to the yang and covering nuclear fusion in the second half of this season, today we wanted to take a step back and talk about all the non-nuclear energy sources out there.
We ask this icebreaker question to every guest we bring onto the show: "What does the pie chart of energy sources look like in the US in the year 2050?" From advocating for the widely accused fossil fuels like oil and gas, to the widely celebrated renewables like geothermal, solar, and wind, each guest brings a new perspective to the mix. In this episode, Packy and Julia hear out their cases, and afterwards, answer the infamous question themselves.
Thank you to this episode’s guests: Meredith Angwin, Mark Hinaman, Alex Epstein, Casey Handmer, Noah Smith, Angelica Oung, and Eli Dourado.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Clean Air Task Force

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:00:00) Energy in 2050
(00:08:29) Fossil fuels
(00:28:41) Geothermal
(00:36:53) Wind
(00:56:54) Understanding the grid
(01:03:30) Solar
(01:25:02) Batteries
(01:36:06) Episode Recap

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

E7: The Case For All the Other Energy Sources

A narrative show that explores the complex industries that will play an important role in creating an abundant future for humanity. Every season, host Packy McCormick – a venture investor and writer of the popular Not Boring newsletter – brings in an expert cohost to go deep into the possibilities and challenges of making “sci-fi” dreams our reality in our lifetimes. The first season starts at the root of all progress and prosperity: unlocking 10x more clean and reliable energy by splitting and fusing atoms themselves.

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Here's our full-length interview with Jordan Bramble and our own Julia DeWahl, co-founders of Antares, where we dive deep into how Antares plans on manufacturing in mass micro-sized nuclear reactors to provide abundant energy for all.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles
Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/
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RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Turpentine Finance  
Host Sasha Orloff (3x Founder & CEO) is joined by top founders and finance leaders at high growth tech companies who share how they navigated huge make-or-break decisions, rode inflection points, and architected success. If you want to learn the mental models and tactics top business leaders and CFOs, subscribe below. Debut episode features Casey Woo unpacking his wild ride managing billions in budgets at WeWork  – arguably one of the craziest capital stories ever.

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5BflNhFxxLjqT2RA47352G 
Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1704418764

--
For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:10) Introduction
(03:50) Background story of starting Antares
(05:50) Role of military applications in microreactor development
(10:11) Working with DoD and commercial sector
(15:28) The process of building a microreactor
(20:04) On shifting from Software to Nuclear
(23:06) Addressing risks in Antares
(32:03) Next steps and timeline for Antares
(39:18) The future of the world with abundant nuclear energy

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

Bonus: Mass Manufacturing Micro-sized Nuclear Reactors with Jordan Bramble and Julia DeWahl of Antares

Here's our full-length interview with David Kirtley, founder of Helion Energy, where we dive deep into the need for fusion as a replacement for fossil fuels.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles
Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/

--
RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Turpentine Finance  
Host Sasha Orloff (3x Founder & CEO) is joined by top founders and finance leaders at high growth tech companies who share how they navigated huge make-or-break decisions, rode inflection points, and architected success. If you want to learn the mental models and tactics top business leaders and CFOs, subscribe below. Debut episode features Casey Woo unpacking his wild ride managing billions in budgets at WeWork  – arguably one of the craziest capital stories ever.

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5BflNhFxxLjqT2RA47352G 
Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1704418764

--
For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:00) The future of energy sources in the US
(03:10) Introduction to Helion Energy
(08:33) Different approaches in fusion
(12:21) Partnerships with Microsoft
(16:16) Size and scalability of fusion reactors
(20:21) Power control and regulation in fusion
(25:44) Tracking progress at Helion
(29:51) The market and competition in commercial fusion
(34:30) Working with academia and regulatory
(42:29) Challenges and risks in fusion development
(44:13) The vision of abundant fusion energy

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

Bonus: A World with Abundant Fusion Energy with David Kirtley of Helion Energy

Here's our full-length interview with Bret Kugelmass, founder of Last Energy, where we dive deep into nuclear manufacturing and the importance of manufacturing efficiency.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles
Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(04:38) Regulatory capture and the NRC
(09:45) The cost of nuclear + manufacturing
(18:11) The Last Energy product and manufacturing process
(25:14) The future of nuclear energy
(29:31) Risks and mitigation in the nuclear energy business
(35:52) The limitations of wind and wolar
(40:49) Gigawatt scale power
(43:14) What would the world look like with abundant nuclear energy?

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

Bonus: Unlocking Nuclear Power at Scale with Bret Kugelmass of Last Energy

We're kicking off the first of our bonus episodes with Tyler Bernstein, founder and CEO of Zeno Power, where he shares in-depth how they're creating radioisotope power systems for lunar applications.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles
Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(00:22) The Pie of Energy Sources in 2050
(01:35) Nuclear Energy in Space
(06:12) Radioisotope Power vs. Nuclear Power for Propulsion
(10:54) Building Zeno Power
(14:18) Economics and Regulation in Space Nuclear
(20:01) Competitive Dynamics and Protecting Market Position
(23:00) Challenges and Risks
(25:29) Business Models and Financing
(29:42) De-risking the Supply Chain
(32:17) Product and Process of Zeno Power
(35:22) Geopolitics and the Moon
(38:48) Abundant Energy in the Universe

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

Bonus: Building Nuclear for the Moon with Tyler Bernstein of Zeno Power

We can live in an Age of Miracles, but it’s going to take a lot of work. 
Energy abundance is the most important thing we can work towards as a species. 
More than simply surviving climate change, we have the opportunity to unlock a new level of human thriving if we can successfully navigate this transition. 
That’s why we chose to do the first season of Age of Miracles on the energy sources of the future. In this episode of Age of Miracles, the final episode of season one, Packy and Julia reflect on the importance of energy abundance, how nuclear energy helps us unlock it, and what the future might look like when we do.
Thank you to all of our guests this season for making this show possible—we're so grateful.

Huge thank you to our sponsors:
Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.
Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy
Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy
Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles
Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/ 

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Follow our hosts:
Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn
Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn

Timestamps:
(00:00) The best way to create the future is to invent it
(07:55) What can you do today?
(16:09) Josh Wolfe on a future of abundance
(18:29) Casey Handmer on a future of abundance
(20:49) Angelica Oung on a future of abundance
(23:22) Alex Epstein on a future of abundance
(29:42) Final recap

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

E7: The Case For All the Other Energy Sources

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