The Chief Exchange

Chief Angela Averiett brings more than 28 years of policing experience across five different agencies, and her journey is a powerful reminder that growth often requires movement, self-awareness, and courage. In this episode, she shares why the eye cannot see itself — and how sometimes it takes leaving an organization to truly understand your value, your blind spots, and your potential.

We explore when it’s time to move out to move up, how to recognize when there’s no longer room for you to grow, and why the grass can be greener on the other side when culture and leadership align. Chief Averiett breaks down what she calls “organizational terrorists”, how they quietly damage morale, and how leaders can confront them without losing themselves. She also talks about building trust with your team, knowing when to correct a teammate publicly for the good of the group, the power of telling your story through social media, and why resilience, self-belief, and optimism matter — especially in the darkest seasons. Above all, this conversation reinforces a simple but powerful truth: everything is going to be okay.

FirstNet didn’t emerge from Silicon Valley or a federal mandate — it was born out of frustration, persistence, and a shared belief among public safety leaders that communications failures during major incidents were unacceptable. In this episode of The Chief Exchange, former Fire Chief Jeff Johnson and former Police Chief Chris Moore take listeners inside the real story of how FirstNet was founded, the resistance they faced, and the leadership lessons learned along the way.

We explore when departments should begin merger conversations, the top three reasons mergers make sense, and why data has shifted from a “nice-to-have” to an operational necessity. Chiefs Johnson and Moore also share candid reflections on the role of politics, the importance of learning technology to remain effective leaders, and why continuous progress matters if you want to be the best in your profession. Throughout the conversation, they emphasize a hard-earned truth of leadership: good things do happen — just rarely on the timeline or path you expect.

Shane Wheeler has lived leadership from multiple vantage points — as a Fire Chief, an EMS leader, and now the CEO of a rapidly growing regional mobile health organization. In this episode, Shane reflects on the parallels between public safety leadership and executive leadership, and why the skills chiefs develop over a career translate far beyond the firehouse.

We explore the tension between kingdom vs. community, the shift from being a hands-on operator to a vision-setting leader, and the difficult discipline of keeping your hands out of the pie so others can grow. Shane shares candid lessons on loosening control, trusting your team, and moving from day-to-day operations into strategy and organizational vision. He also opens up about imposter syndrome, the importance of education and lifelong learning, why leaders must avoid pigeonholing themselves, and how transparency, humility, vulnerability, and accountability are not soft traits — but essential leadership tools. This conversation is a powerful reminder that leadership evolves, learning never stops, and pacing yourself matters if you want to lead for the long haul.

Chief Matthew Vinci brings more than 31 years of experience across every level of the fire service — from the kitchen table to national advocacy to the Fire Chief’s office. In this episode, he shares how his background as a labor leader shaped his belief that people are the most valuable resource any department has, and why inclusive leadership isn’t optional if you want real progress.

We explore the real growth challenges facing fire departments today, how involving your labor group in strategic planning, budgeting, and facilities decisions builds trust instead of resistance, and why stagnation quietly erodes culture. Chief Vinci breaks down how leaders can make strong decisions with 80–90% of the information, instead of waiting for perfection, and why momentum matters. He also shares how Spokane County Fire is tackling wellness with a multi-pronged approach, and why leaders must accept that you never truly know where your career — or life — will take you, but preparation and involvement shape the outcome.

Chief John Esposito has spent 34 years rising through every rank of the FDNY, ultimately becoming Chief of Department for the largest fire service in the United States. In this episode, he shares the lessons that shaped him — from growing up around a volunteer firehouse to leading more than 11,000 firefighters and navigating the complex realities of New York City’s fire environment.

We explore the growing danger of lithium-ion battery fires, the gritty resilience required to lead in an urban fire service, and the soft skills that separate good chiefs from great ones. Chief Esposito explains why leaders must study the successes and mistakes of those who came before them, because learning through others is how you avoid repeating history. He also talks about the unique weight leaders carry: by the time a problem reaches them, it's the toughest challenge everyone else has tried to solve. Throughout the conversation, he underscores one of his core beliefs — that how you say something can matter more than what you say, especially when the stakes are high and your people are looking to you for clarity, stability, and trust.

Chief Chris Workman has spent over two decades serving others — first in the fire service, then in policing, and now as Chief of Police in Cheswold, Delaware. But behind the badge, the rank, and the leadership roles, he carried a private battle that almost cost him his life. In this episode, Chief Workman shares openly about hitting rock bottom, the phone call that changed everything, and his mission to break the stigma around mental health through The Deep Blue Project and his book Silence Behind the Blue Wall.

We explore why leaders must delegate and trust their teams, even when ego and fear make it difficult, and why “check-the-box leadership” is harming departments across the country. Chief Workman talks about the importance of testing early for cancer, knowing you’re not alone in your struggles, and remembering that you are a human being — not a machine. His honesty exposes the gap between the advice chiefs often give and the advice they actually follow, and he offers practical wisdom for leaders and agencies that want to create cultures of honesty, care, vulnerability, and real support.

Chief Stephen Redfearn has experienced policing at its highest peaks and heaviest moments — from rising through the ranks in Aurora to leading Boulder PD through mass-violence events few chiefs ever face. In this episode, he shares what those moments taught him about leadership, culture, and wellness in a profession where the stakes are deeply human.

We unpack the art of the debrief after traumatic incidents, why leaders must normalize support and mental health, and how officers can protect their identity beyond the badge. Chief Redfearn also reflects on the importance of documenting your journey, enjoying the fleeting moments of your career, and why wellness — including something as simple as working out on duty — is essential to building resilient teams. His perspective is grounded, honest, and built on hard-earned experience.

Doug Shoemaker spent more than three decades in policing, serving as chief in multiple agencies and helping shape the national conversation around leadership, culture, and wellness. In this episode, Doug shares the unfiltered realities of leading during some of the most challenging moments in modern policing — from navigating organizational change to knowing when it’s time to step away.

This conversation goes far beyond titles and tactics. Doug reflects on empathy as a leadership superpower, the hidden truths about building trust quickly with your team, and how his perspective on policing has evolved through his work with The Curve after retirement. He also opens up about giving yourself grace, identity beyond the badge, and what truly matters when your career comes to an end. This episode is a powerful reminder that leadership is about people first — and legacy lasts longer than rank.

Chief Derick Miller has spent over 33 years in policing — from SWAT to sergeant to leading two major Texas cities — and the lessons he’s learned come with real weight. In this episode, he opens up about building community trust amid rising immigration challenges, leading through a politically charged environment, and how The Curve reshaped his understanding of policing’s true mission: protecting the vulnerable from harm.

Chief Miller also dives into the pillars of wellness — physical, mental, financial, and spiritual — and why today’s leaders must guide their people holistically or risk losing them. He shares why he refuses to entertain complaints without solutions, how he cultivated an innovation committee to empower new ideas, and the hard-earned wisdom that comes from balancing the demands of the badge with the realities of family life.

Whether you're a chief, a frontline officer, or someone pursuing leadership in public safety, this conversation will challenge you to deepen your courage, sharpen your clarity, and lead with purpose — especially when the stakes feel highest.

Chief Matthew Packard of the Colorado State Patrol has spent over 25 years serving his community — and leading others through some of the most difficult moments imaginable. In this episode, Chief Packard opens up about the lessons learned from loss, the meaning of true wellness, and the power of controlling what you can control.

From creating holistic wellness programs for his troopers, to finding strength in tragedy, to saying “yes” when opportunity knocks, his insights cut to the heart of what it means to lead in public safety today. Whether you’re a chief, a rising officer, or a civilian who simply cares about the people behind the badge, this episode will challenge how you think about leadership, resilience, and growth.