Dr. Robert Zubrin is the president of The Mars Society, a nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing the exploration and colonization of Mars. We begin by discussing why space exploration and colonization is good but, as with my conversation with Chris McKay, Robert and I use space as an entry to discussing issues back on Earth. A major theme of this conversation is environmentalism, which Robert classifies as a form of anti-humanism, offering a strong anthrpocentric response to the biocentrism of Jan Lundberg and David Korten. This flows into a conversation about how we define progress and where we find value, in which John Zerzan's ideas make their inevitable cameo. Finally, we conclude with a discussion of Robert's mixed feelings about the transhumanist ideas discussed by Max More.