In this dialogue, Rebecca and Brandon delve into Christian history and ask the question: "What does the cross of Jesus say to us about violence, suffering, and sacrifice? "

Thanks to Adam Barnard for producing the episode.

Thanks to Ryan Newson and Mike Grigoni for the intro music.

Excerpts referred to in this dialogue:

But he was pierced for our transgressions,

    he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,

    and by his wounds we are healed.

-Isaiah 53:5

The suffering of the martyrs is the triumph of God.

-Jerome

We multiply when you reap us. The blood of Christians is seed.

-Tertullian

It cannot be forgotten that the historic Jesus sought for himself neither death nor resurrection but the proclamation of the Reign of God to the point of death.

-Ignacio Ellacuria

The fact that Jesus identifies with the oppressed is not a sanctification of oppression, as if it is only in being oppressed that one can find God…the cross is not the end, but a revelatory point on the way to new life, new reality.

-Kelly Brown Douglas