The Deconstructionists

Angela Harger Thompson joins us for part one of a deeply honest, unexpectedly funny, and powerful conversation about survival, trauma, and reclaiming the right to tell your own story.

Angela is an actor, filmmaker, and author of the new memoir Worst Tits Ever. In this first installment, she shares the experiences that divided her life into a before and an after—including being drugged and sexually assaulted, navigating the confusing realities of an abusive relationship, and eventually finding herself trapped on a boat with a man she increasingly understood she was not safe with.

Together, we explore how difficult it can be to recognize abuse while living inside it, the ways trauma can alter our perception of ourselves, and the shame and silence that so often keep survivors from speaking openly about what happened to them. Angela also discusses why she chose to tell her story with such vulnerability, candor, and humor.

This conversation is also an early glimpse of what’s ahead with our new podcast, This Is Who We Become—the natural next chapter of The Deconstructionists after we stop producing new episodes at the end of this year.

Every life has a before. Every life has an after.

This Is Who We Become will feature conversations with survivors, scientists, physicians, explorers, and ordinary people whose lives were transformed by extraordinary experiences. Visit thisiswhowebecome.com and join the mailing list to receive guest announcements, release dates, trailer news, and other updates as we prepare to launch.

Please consider sharing the website with someone who might connect with these stories. The larger we can grow this community before launch, the stronger this next chapter will be.

Content warning: This episode includes discussions of sexual assault, drugging, abusive relationships, coercive control, and trauma. Please take care of yourself while listening.

In Part One:

• Angela’s decision to write Worst Tits Ever
• Using humor to communicate painful experiences
• Being drugged and sexually assaulted
• The confusion, shame, and self-questioning that can follow trauma
• How abusive relationships gradually distort a person’s sense of what is normal
• Recognizing danger while living inside a controlling relationship
• The importance of survivors telling their stories in their own words

Learn more:

• Order Worst Tits Ever wherever books are sold
• Follow Angela Harger Thompson and learn more about her work

Join the This Is Who We Become mailing list at thisiswhowebecome.com

Special music provided by Forrest Clay from his Recover EP.

If you or someone you know has experienced sexual violence, confidential support is available through the RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or rainn.org.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In Part Two of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg, we explore the growing loss of trust in medicine and science—and what happens when that distrust opens the door to misinformation.

From unsupported claims connecting Tylenol to autism to the broader consequences of rejecting medical expertise, we examine why these ideas gain traction, how fear can travel faster than evidence, and why simply telling people they’re wrong rarely rebuilds trust.

We also discuss the need to hold institutions accountable for genuine failures without abandoning science altogether—and what honesty, humility, and transparency might contribute to restoring public confidence.

New Podcast Coming Soon!

Our new podcast, This Is Who We Become, explores the moments that divide a life into “before” and “after”—and the people we become because of them.

Visit https://thisiswhowebecome.com and join the mailing list for upcoming guest announcements, launch updates, and more.

Connect with The Deconstructionists:

Website: https://thedeconstructionists.com

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What if accepting evolution didn’t require abandoning faith?

Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray returns to The Deconstructionists to talk about her new book, Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God.

Janet is a science educator, author, and Jesus follower who was herself raised within creationism. In her latest book, she tackles one of the most persistent points of tension between modern science and certain expressions of Christianity: human evolution.

In Part One of our conversation, we dig into the remarkable story of how life developed on Earth and eventually produced us—from our ancient aquatic ancestors to primates, early humans, and Homo sapiens. Along the way, Janet helps unpack some of the evidence for evolution found in fossils, anatomy, genetics, and even the strange imperfections built into our own bodies.

We also explore why human evolution remains particularly difficult for many Christians to accept, why familiar objections like “If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” misunderstand how evolution actually works, and what happens when the scientific evidence appears to conflict with the way we were taught to read Scripture.

And underneath it all is a much bigger question:

If human beings are part of the evolutionary story of life on Earth, what does it actually mean to say that we are made in the image of God?

That’s where things get really interesting.

This is Part One of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray.

Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God is available from Eerdmans Publishing and wherever books are sold.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

After more than ten years of conversations about faith, doubt, theology, identity, and the questions that reshape us, The Deconstructionists is entering its final chapter.

In this special update, John reflects on how the show began, the philosophy that guided it, what has changed in the deconstruction space over the past decade, and why the time feels right to bring the weekly podcast to a close at the end of 2026.

But this isn’t goodbye just yet.

There are still new guests and conversations ahead, the full archive will remain available, and the door will always be open for future special episodes.

John also introduces what comes next: Who We Become, a new podcast exploring the moments that divide our lives into before and after — and the people we become on the other side.

Learn more and join the mailing list at thisiswhowebecome.com.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What does it really mean to be present with another person?

In Part Two of John's conversation with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, the discussion moves beyond defining modern chaplaincy and into the heart of spiritual care itself.

Rather than offering easy answers or trying to fix people's pain, today's chaplains often practice something much more difficult: accompanying people through uncertainty, grief, trauma, and profound life transitions. In a culture that values certainty, productivity, and quick solutions, this conversation explores the transformative power of simply showing up.

Rev. Sally shares how contemporary chaplains understand their work—not as experts dispensing wisdom, but as compassionate companions helping people navigate some of life's most sacred and challenging moments.

Together, John and Rev. Sally discuss:

• Why presence can be more powerful than having the right words.
• What chaplains can teach all of us about listening.
• The role of empathy, curiosity, and accompaniment in spiritual care.
• How grief, suffering, and meaning intersect.
• Why human connection is becoming increasingly valuable in an age shaped by technology and AI.
• What it looks like to care for people across different faiths, beliefs, and worldviews.
• How we can all become better companions to those who are hurting.
• 
  

Whether you're a person of faith, someone deconstructing long-held beliefs, or simply interested in becoming more present for the people around you, this conversation offers practical wisdom and a hopeful vision of what compassionate care can look like.

Guest:

Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, MDiv, MA (DMin candidate), is a Board Certified Chaplain (APC), an ACPE Certified Educator, and Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at The Johns Hopkins Hospital. She is the author of the forthcoming New Images of Spiritual Care, which highlights the diverse voices and innovative practices shaping contemporary chaplaincy.

Follow The Deconstructionists

If you enjoyed this conversation, we'd love your support. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who might find it meaningful.

Follow us on social media for episode clips, behind-the-scenes content, and updates on upcoming conversations exploring faith, doubt, history, psychology, and what it means to be human.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What comes to mind when you hear the word "chaplain"?

For many of us, it's an older Christian minister carrying a Bible into a hospital room to pray with patients. But what if that image no longer reflects the reality of modern spiritual care?

In Part One of this conversation, John sits down with Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, board-certified chaplain, ACPE Certified Educator, and Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at Johns Hopkins Hospital, to explore how chaplaincy has transformed over the past several decades.

Today's chaplains come from an extraordinary range of religious and philosophical traditions—including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Humanism, Unitarian Universalism, and more. Rather than focusing on converting people or providing religious answers, modern spiritual care emphasizes presence, curiosity, accompaniment, and compassionate listening during life's most vulnerable moments.

Together, John and Rev. Sally discuss:

• Why most of us have an outdated picture of what a chaplain is.
• The fascinating history and evolution of chaplaincy.
• What board-certified chaplains actually do.
• Why spiritual care is about far more than religion.
• How hospitals care for patients with widely different beliefs and worldviews.
• The shift from authority and hierarchy toward relationship and mutuality.
• Why "being present" can sometimes be more healing than having the right answers.

Whether you're deeply religious, spiritually curious, deconstructing your faith, or simply interested in what it means to care well for another human being, this conversation offers a fresh perspective on one of the most misunderstood professions in healthcare.

Guest:

Rev. Sally Pelinka Miller, MDiv, MA (DMin candidate) is a Board Certified Chaplain (APC), an ACPE Certified Educator, and serves as Manager of Clinical Pastoral Education at The Johns Hopkins Hospital. She is currently writing New Images of Spiritual Care, a book exploring the diverse voices and evolving practices shaping modern chaplaincy.

Follow The Deconstructionists

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend. Your support helps more people discover thoughtful conversations about faith, doubt, spirituality, history, and the questions that matter most.

Follow us on social media for episode clips, behind-the-scenes content, and updates on upcoming interviews.

Website: www.thedecontructionists.org

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What if one of the Bible's most famous stories isn't really about a hero and a villain?

For centuries, many of us have been taught to read the story of Jacob and Esau through a familiar lens: Jacob, despite his flaws, is God's chosen son, while Esau becomes little more than the cautionary tale of the brother who "despised his birthright." But what happens when we slow down, revisit the text, and listen to voices from within the Jewish tradition?

In this episode of The Deconstructionists, John explores one of Genesis' most fascinating—and misunderstood—relationships. Drawing on insights from Rabbi Jonathan Sacks in Essays on Ethics and Not in God's Name, as well as reflections from Rabbi David Wolpe, this conversation examines how the story of Jacob and Esau challenges simplistic readings of Scripture and invites us into a richer understanding of reconciliation, identity, and what it means to become fully human.

Rather than reading Genesis as a collection of moral fables with obvious heroes and villains, we consider the possibility that the biblical authors were doing something far more profound: exposing the cycles of sibling rivalry, fear, favoritism, and violence that have echoed throughout human history.

Along the way, we explore why Jacob spends so much of his life wrestling—not only with God, but with himself—and why his eventual reunion with Esau may be one of the most emotionally powerful moments in all of Scripture.

Could it be that the real transformation wasn't simply Jacob becoming Israel... but two brothers finally seeing one another clearly?

In This Episode

• Why Jacob and Esau are far more complex than they're often portrayed
• The ancient Near Eastern world behind the Genesis narrative
• Why Jewish interpretations often differ from traditional Christian readings
• What Rabbi Jonathan Sacks means when he argues that Genesis repeatedly challenges sibling rivalry
• How Not in God's Name reframes stories of election and chosenness
• The surprising significance of Jacob's wrestling match before meeting Esau
• Why Jacob sends gifts ahead of himself—and whether they are simply a bribe or something deeper
• Rabbi David Wolpe's reflection on mirrors in the ancient world, and how Jacob and Esau may have seen themselves in one another after decades apart
• The emotional power of forgiveness and reconciliation in Genesis 33
• What Jacob and Esau still have to teach us about family, conflict, identity, and grace today

Books Referenced

• Rabbi Jonathan Sacks — Essays on Ethics
• Rabbi Jonathan Sacks — Not in God's Name: Confronting Religious Violence
• Additional insights discussed from the teachings of Rabbi David Wolpe

A Few Questions We Explore

• Was Jacob always intended to be understood as the hero of this story?
• What does it really mean to be "chosen" in Genesis?
• Why does the Bible spend so much time telling stories about rival siblings?
• What changes when we read Genesis through the lens of Jewish scholarship?
• Is reconciliation ever possible without first confronting who we've become? 

Like the music? Check out Forrest Clay anywhere you find your music! The song featured on this episode is "Does God" off his Recover EP.

Love the work we're doing?! Support us by joining the Patreon family here: https://www.patreon.com/c/thedeconstructionistspodcast/membership

Stay up on all things Deconstructionists here: www.thedeconstructionists.org

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In Part 2 of our conversation with grief coach, author, and podcaster Shelby Forsythia, we dive deeper into her brand-new book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now.

Most of us want to help when someone we love is grieving. The problem is that we've never been taught how. Instead, we fall back on clichés, platitudes, and well-meaning advice that often leaves grieving people feeling even more isolated.

Shelby argues that what grieving people need most isn't fixing, solving, or explaining. They need presence.

In this episode, we explore why grief makes people uncomfortable, how our culture's lack of grief literacy creates secondary losses, and the surprisingly simple phrases that can help someone feel seen and supported during life's hardest moments.

Whether you've experienced profound loss yourself or want to be a better support for someone who has, this conversation offers practical wisdom, compassion, and a fresh way of understanding grief.

In This Episode

• Why grief isn't a problem to solve
• The hidden ways people become isolated after loss
• What NOT to say to someone who is grieving
• Why "at least..." statements often do more harm than good
• The difference between helping and fixing
• How grief changes friendships and relationships
• The role of presence versus advice
• The importance of grief literacy in modern culture
• Practical phrases anyone can use to support a grieving friend
• What inspired Shelby to write Of Course I'm Here Right Now
• Why grief can become one of life's greatest teachers

About Shelby Forsythia

Shelby Forsythia is a grief coach, author, podcast host, and founder of Life After Loss Academy. After losing her mother at a young age, she became what she calls a "student of grief," dedicating her work to helping people navigate life after devastating loss. She is the author of Permission to Grieve, Your Grief, Your Way, and her newest book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now: Three Actually Helpful Things to Say to Someone Grieving.

Connect with Shelby

• Website: Shelby Forsythia Official Website
• Book: Of Course I'm Here Right Now
• Podcast: Coming Back Podcast Archive

Support The Deconstructionists

If you're enjoying these conversations, consider supporting our newly relaunched Patreon. Members receive:

• Ad-free episodes
• Extended conversations and bonus content
• Video versions of select interviews
• Early access to new episodes
• Exclusive Patreon-only content

Join us at:

The Deconstructionists Patreon

Follow The Deconstructionists

• Website: www.thedeconstructionsits.org
• Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/thedeconstructionistspodcast

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps others discover the show and supports independent creators.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What happens when grief changes not just your life… but your identity?

In part one of this conversation, John sits down with author, grief guide, and speaker Shelby Forsythia to discuss her new book and the complicated, deeply human realities of loss, healing, and personal transformation.

Together, they explore the myths we inherit about grief, why so many people feel pressure to “move on” too quickly, and how grief can quietly reshape our relationships, spirituality, and sense of self. Rather than offering clichés or easy answers, Shelby approaches grief with honesty, compassion, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty — something longtime listeners of The Deconstructionists will likely find familiar.

Topics include:

• Why grief is not a linear process
• The cultural pressure to “get over” loss
• How grief impacts identity and spirituality
• Emotional honesty versus performative healing
• Why many people feel isolated in their pain
• The connection between grief and personal growth
• Learning to live alongside loss rather than “defeating” it

Shelby’s work offers a compassionate alternative to the toxic positivity and oversimplified narratives that often surround grief conversations.

If this conversation resonates with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who may need it.

Support The Deconstructionists

We’ve officially relaunched our Patreon with new perks and content tiers.

Supporters now get access to:

• Full ad-free episodes
• Bonus content
• Exclusive educational materials
• Video versions of interviews
• Community discussions
• And more content coming soon

You can support the show and join the community here:

[Insert Patreon Link]

Connect With Shelby Forsythia

https://www.shelbyforsythia.com/

Connect With The Deconstructionists

Website: www.thedeconstructionsts.org

Patreon:

If you enjoy the show, leaving a rating or review really does help independent podcasts continue to grow.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What if one of the most influential ideas in modern Christianity… didn’t actually come from Jesus?

In this episode of The Deconstructionists Podcast, we explore the history and impact of dualism — the ancient belief that spirit is good while matter, bodies, and the physical world are somehow lesser, corrupt, or evil.

From Plato and Greek philosophy to Gnosticism and modern evangelical culture, we trace how dualistic thinking quietly shaped theology, sexuality, purity culture, views of the body, the afterlife, politics, and even the way many Christians understand salvation itself.

We ask questions like:

• Why have so many Christians viewed the body with suspicion?
• Did the Bible actually teach a sharp divide between “spiritual” and “physical”?
• How did Greek philosophy influence early Christianity?
• Why do some forms of Christianity focus so heavily on “escaping the world”?
• What happens when faith becomes disconnected from embodiment, justice, and humanity?
• And what might a more holistic, integrated spirituality look like?

Along the way, we discuss:

• Plato and the influence of Greek metaphysics
• Gnosticism and the material/spiritual divide
• The Hebrew understanding of embodied humanity
• Paul’s writings and common misunderstandings about “flesh”
• Heaven, resurrection, and the renewal of creation
• Purity culture and body shame
• The lasting influence of dualism on modern evangelicalism
• Deconstruction, embodiment, and recovering wholeness

This conversation explores how ideas developed historically — and how those ideas still shape people’s lives today, often in ways they don’t even realize.

Whether you come from an evangelical background, are in the middle of deconstruction, or are simply interested in theology, philosophy, and history, this episode offers a deeper look at one of the hidden frameworks underneath modern Christianity.

Topics Covered

• Dualism in Christianity
• Plato and Greek philosophy
• Gnosticism
• Embodiment and spirituality
• Resurrection theology
• Purity culture
• Biblical anthropology
• Evangelical theology
• Deconstruction and reconstruction
• Mind/body divide
• Spiritual formation

Support The Deconstructionists

If you enjoy the show and want to support independent conversations like this, consider joining us on Patreon for:

• Ad-free episodes
• Bonus content
• Extended interviews
• Educational deep dives
• Community discussions

Link: https://www.patreon.com/cw/TheDeconstructionistsPodcast

You can also grab merch and find all of our links here:

www.thedeconstructionists.org

Follow The Deconstructionists

• Instagram
• Facebook
• YouTube

If this episode resonated with you, leaving a review and sharing the episode helps more than you know.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy