Welcome to the Wise Elders podcast, the place where I seek the secret sauce of wisdom. Today's guest is Ryan Fisher, who Matt knows through Aikido. Ryan is a great Aikido practitioner and teacher. He also manages the dojo, is a professional masseuse, and has developed Kokyudo, which is system for training the breath. For the first half of the episode, Matt and Ryan discuss the importance of breathing in the pursuit of wisdom. Then they discuss wisdom using the Self-Assessed Wisdom Scale (SAWS) to frame a discussion on wisdom more broadly (25:15).