The Disciples Made Podcast

Making disciples is not the same as multiplying disciples.

You can invest deeply in dozens of people, lead a thriving group, and become a trusted mentor—and still never move beyond one spiritual generation.

In this episode, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps unpack the four-generation vision of 2 Timothy 2:2 and explain why true multiplication begins when the people you disciple start discipling others.

The challenge? Multiplication cannot be rushed.

As Brian puts it, “Multiplication grows at the speed of maturity.”

Jason and Brian explore why leaders can become stuck at the first generation, how the need to be needed can quietly keep leaders at the center, and why releasing people to lead is essential if we want spiritual children to become spiritual parents themselves.

You’ll also discover why multiplication may appear slow at first, how Jesus prioritized depth before scale, and what has to change in your leadership when your goal becomes spiritual grandchildren—not simply more people depending on you.

IN THIS EPISODE

• The four generations found in 2 Timothy 2:2

MIRROR MOMENT

Draw your spiritual family tree.

Start with the people you are intentionally helping follow Jesus.

Then ask:

Who are they helping follow Jesus?

And who is beginning to emerge beyond them?

Don’t count everyone you’ve ever influenced. Look specifically at intentional disciple-making relationships.

If the page becomes empty after one generation, don’t inflate it.

You’ve simply discovered the next design challenge.

TAKE YOUR NEXT STEP

If you want to see multiplication happen in your church but aren’t sure how to move from your current culture to a multiplying one, Mission Mapping can help your leadership team get clear about where you are, where you want to go, and the shifts required to move toward disciple multiplication.

Start here:

NEXT EPISODE

Are you building a leadership pipeline that produces volunteers—or a disciple pipeline that releases multipliers?

They are not the same.

This is the Disciples Made Podcast.

It’s time to break the addition addiction and start designing for multiplication.

What if the habits shaping your church are really the habits shaping you?

In this episode of the Disciples Made Podcast, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps unpack why disciple multiplication starts with the leader before it ever becomes a church strategy.

They explore the difference between simply engaging Scripture and actually abiding with Jesus, why repeated practices shape who we become, and how personal rhythms eventually become cultural expectations.

You’ll hear why sermon preparation is not the same as personal abiding, why leaders reproduce more through what they embody than what they explain, and how healthy disciple-making becomes reproducible when people learn to hear from Jesus, respond in obedience, and help others do the same.

In this episode:

• Why you reproduce who you are  

The goal is not to reproduce copies of ourselves. The goal is to help people develop rhythms of dependence on Jesus that form them into His likeness and equip them to help others do the same.

This week, identify one rhythm Jesus may be asking you to strengthen—and start there.

COMING SOON: BREAKING THE ADDITION ADDICTION

This season of the Disciples Made Podcast is built around ideas from the upcoming book Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus.

The book is being written for church leaders who want to move beyond simply adding more people, programs, and activity—and build cultures where disciples actually make and multiply disciples.

Breaking the Addition Addiction is not available for purchase yet, but throughout this season we’ll be giving you an early look at the principles, stories, and practices behind the book.

Learn more about Disciples Made and explore resources for disciple multiplication at disciplesmade.com.

It’s time to break the addition addiction and start designing for multiplication.

What happens at your church on Sunday morning?

That question is usually easy to answer.

But here’s the harder one:

What is supposed to happen inside a person because they were there?

In Episode 2 of Season 6, Brian Phipps and Jason Phelps unpack the difference between designing ministry for attendance and designing ministry for becoming.

This season also gives listeners an early look at ideas from the upcoming book Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus.

Worship services, classes, groups, student ministries, and serving opportunities can all accomplish their event objectives without necessarily accomplishing a formation objective. The deeper question is not simply, “Did people participate?” but, “Who are they becoming because they participated?”

Brian and Jason explore the Disciples Made formation target:

Character × Calling = Impact.

Character is who we are becoming as Jesus forms His life in us. Calling is how we join Jesus in His work in the places and relationships where He has uniquely positioned us. When those grow together, disciples increasingly become people through whom Jesus impacts the world.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why attendance and information are not the same as transformation

Before your next leadership meeting, take your three most important ministry environments and ask:

Who is this designed to serve?

What are we hoping they become?

How will we know transformation is happening?

What is their next step?

If you cannot answer those questions clearly, you may have an event—but not yet an intentional pathway.

Coming Soon: Breaking the Addition Addiction

Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus is an upcoming book for church leaders who want to move beyond simply adding more people, programs, and activity—and build cultures where disciples actually make and multiply disciples.

The book is not available for purchase yet, but throughout this season we’re giving you an early look at the principles, stories, and practices behind it.

Learn more and stay connected for future book updates and disciple-multiplication resources at disciplesmade.com.

Breaking the Addition Addiction is a Disciples Made podcast hosted by Brian Phipps and Jason Phelps.

Vision Before Strategy Before Tactics

You may not have designed the church you’re leading. But you can help shape what it becomes.

Season 6, Designing for Multiplication, begins with a question every church leadership team needs to answer:

What kind of person are we actually trying to form?

Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps explore why choosing a curriculum, launching a program, or changing your groups cannot resolve an unclear vision. They lay out the order that guides intentional disciple-making:

Vision first. Strategy second. Tactics third.

This season also gives listeners an early look at ideas from the upcoming book Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus.

IN THIS EPISODE

• Define the destination: Fully Alive disciples growing in both character and calling

YOUR NEXT STEP

Take one sheet of paper and write three headings:

• Vision: What kind of person are we trying to form?

Bring those questions to your leadership team before redesigning anything.

FIND CLARITY WITH MISSION MAPPING

Need help finding clarity together?

Mission Mapping helps your leadership team examine your current reality, clarify your disciple-making vision, and identify practical next steps.

Explore Mission Mapping

COMING SOON: BREAKING THE ADDITION ADDICTION

Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus is an upcoming book for church leaders who want to move beyond simply adding more people, programs, and activity—and build cultures where disciples actually make and multiply disciples.

The book is not available for purchase yet, but throughout this season we’re giving you an early look at the principles, stories, and practices behind it.

Learn more and stay connected for future book updates and disciple-multiplication resources at disciplesmade.com.

Follow the podcast for the rest of Designing for Multiplication.

Next episode: Designing for Becoming—Intentional Disciple-Making Environments that help people grow.

What if your church is getting exactly the results it was designed to get?

Every calendar, budget, leadership system, ministry environment, and scorecard is already producing something.

The question is:

Is it producing disciples who can make and multiply disciples?

In this trailer, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps introduce Season 6: Designing for Multiplication—a practical season for pastors and ministry leaders ready to move beyond diagnosing the problem and start intentionally designing for a different outcome.

This season also gives listeners an early look at ideas from the upcoming book Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus.

Because churches do not accidentally drift into multiplication.

Multiplication must be designed for.

This season will explore how leaders can build systems, environments, habits, pathways, and measurements that increasingly form people in both Christlike character and Kingdom calling—and help them reproduce that life in others.

IN THIS TRAILER

Jason and Brian preview conversations around:

• Why good intentions alone do not produce multiplication

THE BIG IDEA

You do not need to eliminate attendance, programs, preaching, serving, or church growth.

But those things must ultimately serve the formation, mobilization, and multiplication of disciples.

Multiplication cannot simply be added to the end of your existing system. It must be designed into the system from the beginning.

If you are a pastor, executive leader, denominational leader, ministry leader, or someone helping shape disciple-making culture, this season is designed to help you answer the question:

“We see the gap. What do we actually build now?”

COMING SOON: BREAKING THE ADDITION ADDICTION

Breaking the Addition Addiction by Brian Phipps, Craig Watson, and Ed Wilgus is an upcoming book for church leaders who want to move beyond simply adding more people, programs, and activity—and build cultures where disciples actually make and multiply disciples.

The book is not available for purchase yet, but throughout Season 6 we’re giving you an early look at the principles, stories, and frameworks behind it.

Learn more and stay connected for future book updates and disciple-multiplication resources at disciplesmade.com.

Follow the Disciples Made Podcast so you don’t miss Episode 1:

You Designed This (...or Inherited It?)

And if another pastor or leadership team is wrestling with how to move from addition toward multiplication, send them this trailer.

It’s time to stop hoping multiplication happens.

It’s time to design for it.

It’s time to break the addition addiction.

Most church leaders want to see disciples multiply. But are they prepared for the patience, perseverance, and cultural change multiplication requires?

In this bonus episode of the Disciples Made Podcast, Brian Phipps sits down with Vick Green, CEO of Replicate Ministries, for an honest conversation about what it takes to build a movement-ready church.

Vick explains why leaders are often drawn to the power of multiplication but struggle to accept its pace. Multiplication begins slowly. It requires deep investment in a few people, long-term commitment, and the willingness to prioritize personal transformation over immediate activity.

Brian and Vick also explore the tension between engagement and empowerment. Strategies that make it easier for people to attend, participate, and connect can be valuable—but when those same strategies are applied to disciple-making, they can unintentionally weaken the commitment, ownership, and maturity required for multiplication.

In this episode:

• The three elements of a movement-ready church

The invitation is not to abandon engagement. It is to ensure that engagement ultimately leads people toward transformation, ownership, mission, and disciple multiplication.

TAKE THE NEXT STEP

Begin with the free Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment. It will help you identify where your church is strong, where multiplication may be getting stuck, and what your next faithful step could be.

Disciples Made is also offering 25 free Mission Mapping Calls for 25 churches. Complete the assessment, and our team will review your results and help you identify a clear, focused path for your church’s next season.

Take the free assessment:

https://disciplesmade.com/assessment

LEARN MORE ABOUT REPLICATE MINISTRIES

Discover more about Vick Green and Replicate Ministries, including resources designed to help churches build disciple-making cultures:

https://replicate.org

It’s time to break the addition addiction.

Let's break it.

What if your church’s next step is not another meeting, another sermon series, or another program — but an honest baseline?

In the Season 5 finale of Breaking the Addition Addiction, Jason and Brian bring the entire season to a practical and hopeful landing. This season has helped leaders see the difference between addition and multiplication, name the scorecards shaping their systems, identify the cultural syndromes that stall disciple-making, and face the cost of clarity.

But clarity is not the finish line.

Clarity is the doorway.

In this episode, Jason and Brian unpack why leaders should not rush from awareness straight into action. Before a church can redesign for multiplication, it must first see reality clearly. That is where assessment comes in — not as an indictment, but as an invitation.

The Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment helps leaders stop guessing, see what their current systems are actually producing, and establish a shared baseline for culture transformation.

In this episode, they discuss:

Why new programs rarely change old cultures

Why assessment is not pass/fail, but a tool for clarity

How proximity can create blind spots for leaders

Why objective clarity helps teams move from opinions to shared reality

What a baseline actually is — and why it creates hope

What leaders should avoid after receiving assessment results

Why the assessment is not ammo, but a mirror

How Season 5 sets up Season 6: Designing for Multiplication

The invitation is simple:

Lead from reality, not assumption.

If this season has stirred something in you, take the next faithful step. Set the baseline. Look in the mirror. Let Jesus bring clarity.

Take the Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment

Learn more about Disciples Made:

Listen on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.

Throughout Season 5 of Breaking the Addition Addiction, we've challenged some of the most common assumptions about church growth, disciple-making, and multiplication.

We've explored the difference between addition and multiplication, examined why programs don't automatically produce disciples, and discussed how churches can unintentionally build systems that reinforce attendance rather than reproduction.

But understanding the problem is only the beginning.

In this special bonus episode, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps announce a rare donor-sponsored opportunity designed to help churches move from insight to implementation.

Thanks to the generosity of ministry partners, Disciples Made is underwriting up to 25 Mission Mapping engagements (a $750 value) for churches that are serious about becoming more intentional about disciple multiplication.

Mission Mapping is a collaborative process that helps leadership teams:

• Gain objective clarity about their disciple-making culture

Every church begins by completing the Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment and scheduling a Discovery Call. Together, we'll determine whether Mission Mapping is the right next step for your unique context.

If you're a pastor, church staff member, elder, or ministry leader who believes God may be calling your church toward greater disciple multiplication, this opportunity was created for you.

Complete the Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment and schedule your Discovery Call today.

Only 25 donor-sponsored Mission Mapping engagements are available.

If your church is serious about becoming more intentional about disciple multiplication, don't wait.

Website: https://www.disciplesmade.com

Explore Next Steps on our Fully Alive App

What happens when you finally see the truth?

Throughout Season 5, we've exposed the hidden assumptions, scorecards, systems, and cultural patterns that keep many churches trapped in addition thinking. But awareness alone doesn't create change.

In this episode, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps explore the uncomfortable reality that clarity often creates tension before it creates transformation.

Because once leaders see the gap between addition and multiplication, they face a difficult choice:

Will they respond?

Or will they retreat to what feels familiar?

You'll discover why leadership teams often resist change even when they agree with the vision, why misalignment can be difficult to admit, and why courage—not information—is often the missing ingredient in multiplication.

If you've ever felt the tension between what your church says it wants and what its systems actually produce, this conversation is for you.

• Why clarity often creates discomfort before it creates progress

"Clarity shows us where we need to go. Courage determines whether we'll take the next step."

If you want an objective picture of how your church is currently positioned for disciple multiplication, take the free Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment:

👉 Take Assessment Here!

If this episode challenged your thinking, share it with another pastor, church staff member, elder, or ministry leader.

Because clarity isn't the finish line.

It's the beginning.

What if the deepest barrier to disciple multiplication is not a lack of content, programs, theology, or community — but a culture of dependence?

In Part 3 of Episode 6 of Breaking the Addition Addiction, Jason Phelps and Brian Phipps land the deeper thread underneath the five syndromes that stall disciple multiplication before it starts: the “You Need Us” Syndrome.

This is the subtle, often unintended message that people cannot thrive spiritually without depending on church leaders, church programs, or the church institution to feed them and guide them every step of the way.

Jason and Brian are not saying the Body of Christ does not matter. It does. They are not saying leaders do not matter. They do. They are not saying the gathered church is optional. It is a gift.

But multiplication requires discipling people toward interdependence, not dependence.

In this episode:

Why dependent disciples do not reproduce

How the “You Need Us” Syndrome runs underneath all five cultural syndromes

Why church leaders must equip people to abide with Jesus for themselves

How theological accuracy, classrooms, budgets, community, and familiar systems can unintentionally create dependence

Why clarity creates tension for leaders

How Episode 6 sets up Episode 7: The Cost of Clarity

The five syndromes recap:

If It Ain’t Broke Don’t Fix It

Theological Accuracy

The Classroom Effect

Financial Handcuffs

Community Is King

Reflection question:

Which of these syndromes is most visible in your church right now?

Follow-up question:

How might this syndrome be keeping people dependent instead of helping them multiply?

This conversation is not about shame. It is about clarity.

Because culture change starts when leaders are willing to look honestly at what their church is currently producing.

• Take the Disciple Multiplication Capacity Assessment

• Explore Next Steps inside the Fully Alive by Disciples Made app

This is Breaking the Addition Addiction on The Disciples Made Podcast.