The Electoral College isn't going anywhere, but there's a way to work around it without a constitutional amendment.

Rob sits down with Chris Pearson, Executive Director of National Popular Vote, to talk about the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, what it would take to get it over the finish line, and what two decades of state-level reform advocacy actually looks like from the inside.

Check out our work at expanddemocracy.org and our musings on Substack.