When we first spoke with Matthew Weatherly-White on the podcast in 2018 (Episode 14), we discussed recovery, athletic longevity, endurance, desiccants, exercising for an audience, intelligent self-awareness, transubstantiation, personal reinvention, the evolution of capitalism, impact investing, the discipline to do less than you think you have to, and tried to apply behavioral economics to fitness. It was an incredible conversation.

Five years later, much has changed in the world and for us as individuals. We started this conversation with the topic of SVB, banking in general, and how Matthew's company handled the 2008 crash, including the idea that safety nets encourage risky behavior. We diverted towards famous podcasters, the rarity of independent thought — which can either marginalize or work in one's favor, digital interface with a virtual mob, the benefits of negative experience, and briefly spoke about the U.S.' war on drugs, money flow, arms sales, and how cartels sometimes step in to provide community services where the government doesn't. Somehow this led us to explore Adam Smith and his "moral framework" of capitalism, which most people ignored in favor of ever more reductionist positions that produced a form of capitalism he actually did not advocate.

This splendid conversation closed out on the topics of publishing, and an almost euphoric description of surfing, courage, and making it into the local line-up. It is indeed, a conversation about the richness of life.

Michael starts the conversation by declaring that social media is a record of, "all of the stuff you don't normally do." Neither Blair, Erin or Mark could disagree so we moved on to the topic of expertise, addressing differences between that derived from actual experience rather than from a credentialing body or process and the value of each, as well as how expert conclusions are often shaped by funding (we see you, Nutrition). If science results from consensus, i.e. from a number of people testing different hypotheses and settling on a conclusion, does this mean that the consensus is always right, or true, or useful? Big jumps in understanding often result from individuals not doing the same as had been done before, not following the consensus. So maybe we should all speak up when folks tell us to keep our in-expertise to ourselves.

Logan and Jariko are veterans, BRCC frontmen, and present-day explorers. They were part of team that set a record for 7 parachute jumps on 7 continents in less than 7 days. In this episode, we discuss fear, risk, and continually pushing the boundary of the unknown in order to have — and then share — new experiences.

Maury Irvine was born in San Francisco in 1924. He was deeply moved by the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and immediately attempted to enlist in the Navy but due to a birth defect in one eye he was turned away. Maury was determined so went back 27 times, hoping to catch a recruiter who would let him pass, but didn’t. He was eventually hired by TWA Airlines, who had lowered the eyesight requirement because of the war, but after realizing he would be desk-bound there he joined the Merchant Marines. Maury became a decoder during WWII, working closely with the ship’s captain and traveling the world. His fascination with travel, science and culture took him all over the world, at one point he visited 33 countries in seven years. He holds a PhD in physics, taught at Lehigh University and worked for Bell Labs during the development of the transistor computer, among other projects. After retiring Maury volunteered at The Museum of the Rockies, where Jack Horner was the Head of Paleontology. The pair hit it off and eventually traveled to five different continents together digging for dinosaur bones. Maury volunteered at the Museum for almost 30 years and donated over 10,000 hours of service. He has lived a remarkable and inspiring life, and Blair and I are fortunate to have spoken with him for this podcast. For further insight check out Blair’s essay about her dear friend on the NonProphet website.

Mark and Blair sit down to talk with mountain athlete, Justine Hewitt. Blair and Justine met in the valley of the Grand Canyon a few years ago when both were running the Rim 2 Rim 2 Rim for fun and decided to finish their route together. Justine is accomplishing big feats in her local Utah mountains and beyond while remaining under-the-radar (for now). They discuss Justine’s 2022 win at RUFA (Running Up for Air), where she completed 11 laps on Grandeur Peak for a total of 63.8 miles and 35,618 feet of vertical gain in 24 hours. It’s easy to understand Justine’s nickname ‘The Queen of Vert’ from her single day efforts and her 500,000 vertical foot goal for 2022 (which she reached in early November). They also discuss her first 100-mile effort, The Millwood 100, a backyard vert fest that criss-crosses the Wasatch, created by local athlete Jared Campbell. Justine set the Women’s Fastest Known Time and was one of 22 total to ever complete the route at the time. While the numbers are impressive and indicative of Justine's strength, grit, and determination, it is her gratitude for being in the mountains and her enthusiasm to encourage others that shines more brightly than any trophy or accolade. She trains quietly every single day and approaches each chance to be in the mountains with humbleness and appreciation. She is grateful to be out there and her excitement and gratitude — her spirit — reverberates along all the trails she runs and through all the people she runs with.

Phil returns for an attempt at a “more clear transmission.” In the last episode Phil felt like he was off, and true to his incorporation of HD he wanted to get the environment to be a better fit so that he could speak more clearly on a topic he knows at a very deep level. I think if you listen to both you can hear a difference. Chalk it up to “living your design",” or just a feature of getting more comfortable, either way, this episode explores HD from a different angle (even though we cover similar topics).

HD is a ridiculous premise. It has unbelievable origins, but at its core, Phil tries to establish that it is a practical system, based on very physical phenomena. And the benefits you can get from understanding it has nothing to do with “belief” or “faith.” In fact, it has to do trial and error, experimenting, and remaining curious about our intrinsic and unique experience as humans.

For the last few years, Erin and Michael have been entertaining the idea that there is a known, predictable pattern to how each human is deeply individual but operates within a given nature. This is known as Human Design. It is a quirky, surreal experiment of sorts, easily dismissible as woo, and yet, somehow, highly effective. Phil Redd was responsible for exposing them to the concept 3 years ago and has continued to teach them the intricacies of this vastly complex system with a skill and expertise that is rarely found in a world that latches on to high ideals and mysticism with little to no backing. It is admittedly hard to swallow, but it is more logical than it first appears, and Phil is as good of a guide as they come. In this episode, Phil explains some of the pieces that make Human Design a unique lens through which to look at the world and yourself through. He goes into the history of its founder Ra Uru Hu, and the unbelievable mystical experience that has become a worldwide phenomenon. This is Part One of an unexpected two-part series. Phil recorded this first episode and realized that the circumstances of it didn’t match up to how he best transmits detailed information, so we recorded another with a few adjustments that will be released next week.

Mark sits down with Blair Speed to discuss the concepts of effort, process, competition and achievement in the context of climbing and trail running among other activities. They examine Blair's running and racing (and professional work) season, and talk about preparing for and executing two back-to-back 50km trail races. They conclude that one universal concept still holds true: pay attention, be self-aware, control what you CAN control in order to spare the horsepower needed to address what you cannot control when it truly matters. 

Michael, Erin, and Blair talk with “Cinnamon” about their experience at The Tactical Games back in March of 2022. They cover topics like women in tactical sports, using magical rocks for fitness gains, the fitness industry as a honey pot for identity, and micro-dosing corndogs.

Jesse is an actor, seeker, and thinker. He has a long list of professional credits, but what is more impressive is his desire to constantly reinvent himself. In this episode, he sits down with Erin and Michael to talk about his upbringing in a small Wyoming town, the long difficult road to breaking into the industry, and his approach to his profession that keeps him learning and exploring.