The Islamic sciences were once rooted in an underlying epistemic unity, that existed among all fields of the knowledge in the Islamic world. Zara talks to Professor Joseph Lumbard about his paper Islam and the Challenge of Epistemic Sovereignty. They discuss: the eradication of the Islamic epistemic framework, the adoption of modern secular-epistemic models, and the complicity of some Muslim academics in this. Professor Lumbard also explains the need to reinstate the position of tasawuf (purification of the soul) in Islamic intellectual discourse.