Child sexual abuse is the conversation every father wants to avoid because the mere thought of it is paralyzing. But here is the hard truth: Silence is the predator’s greatest ally. Our discomfort is their opportunity. To be the true 'Sentinel' of our homes, we have to be willing to look at the 'unthinkable' so that we can prevent the 'irreparable.' and that’s exactly what we’re going to talk about in this episode.

Veronica Thompson is a leading voice in trauma-informed, faith-based advocacy. She doesn't just talk about the statistics; she provides a blueprint for dads to build a culture of safety, to recognize the subtle 'grooming' behaviors that others might miss, and to know exactly how to lead if the worst-case scenario is suspected.

Find the books Veronica mentioned in this episode here: https://linktr.ee/thefatherhoodchallenge

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00:03.32

Jonathan Guerrero

As fathers, we are hardwired to be protectors. If a physical intruder broke into our homes tonight, most of us wouldn't hesitate to put our lives on the line to stand between that threat and our children.

00:16.31

Jonathan Guerrero

We lock our doors, we check the windows, and we stay vigilant against the dangers that we can see. But there is a threat that often bypasses the looks of the the locks and the windows.

00:26.80

Veronica

Thank

00:29.04

Jonathan Guerrero

It's a threat that thrives in the shadows, in the silence, and painfully, often within the circles of trust that we believe are safe.

00:40.60

Jonathan Guerrero

Child sexual abuse is the is the conversation every father wants to avoid because the mere thought of it is actually paralyzing. But here's the hard truth. Silence is the predator's greatest ally.

00:54.36

Jonathan Guerrero

Our discomfort is their opportunity and their strength. To be the true sentinel of our homes, we have to be willing to look at the unthinkable so that we can prevent the ear so that we can prevent the irreparable. And that's exactly what we're going to do in just a moment. So don't go anywhere.

01:16.07

Jonathan Guerrero

Greetings, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me in this episode called The First Line of Defense. And joining me is my guest, Veronica Thompson. Veronica is the leading voice in trauma-informed faith-based advocacy. She doesn't just talk about the statistics. She provides a blueprint for dads to build a culture of safety, to recognize the subtle grooming behaviors that often others might miss, and how to know exactly how to lead if the worst-case scenario is suspected. verona Veronica, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

01:52.18

Veronica

Thank you, Jonathan, for having me. I'm really excited to to talk to you and to have a conversation about how dads can support their families and their children and and keep them safe from from individuals who would like to harm them.

02:06.17

Jonathan Guerrero

This really, really is a heavy lift for many men. For the dad who is listening right now and feels that immediate tightness in his chest just hearing this topic or is checking that his gun is somewhere nearby, why is his emotional presence and awareness actually the most powerful defensive weapon?

02:26.30

Veronica

Yes, um and his presence most certainly is the most powerful defensive weapon. So first for that dad, I just want to say take a breath with me. Just, um you know, kind of breathe in um and take a slow breath out and exhale because It is understandable that just the mere idea of your child being sexually abused just raises up really strong defenses.

02:53.82

Veronica

um But one of the things that I think a lot of dads, um what they want to do is they want to make it clear to their families, to their wives and their children, that they're there for them and they're going to defend them and that that if anyone tries to harm them, there are going to be huge consequences.

03:14.68

Veronica

um And I know that that comes from a a loving place in the heart of a father. The thing about it, though, is that um I've worked with survivors and families for a very long time.

03:28.34

Veronica

And one of the most common things that I hear is, I was afraid to tell my dad because I was afraid he would kill the perpetrator. I was afraid he was going to um just not be able to handle it and that something really bad was going to happen.

03:43.86

Veronica

And so, again, that is a very understandable um emotional reaction to have that, you know, if somebody harms my child, there's going to be severe consequences.

03:55.86

Veronica

um But that's why, you know, it's important to take a breath and to say, ah we We know we have these instincts to protect, and so what we're going to do when we engage in spiritual warfare is we're going to refer to what the Bible tells us to do.

04:13.94

Veronica

um And the Bible tells us a a lot of things that are um that are really important for dads who want to protect their children. First of all, you are 100% correct that the the dad's presence is so important.

04:30.17

Veronica

um one of the things that perpetrators ah look for are vulnerable children. So... um Perpetrators don't want to get caught, so so we're going to start there.

04:45.46

Veronica

And maybe we can talk about this at some point um later, but there is a ah grooming process that almost always occurs. And in that grooming process, the first step is to target the victim. So they find a child and they they set their focus on that child as the child that they're going to to target to abuse.

05:07.45

Veronica

um And one of the things that the perpetrator looks for, and the research tells us this, is a child who doesn't have, who they feel that they can manipulate the father in some way.

05:20.18

Veronica

Now, if you are a father out there and your child has been abused, please do not take that as um as any condemnation or that you've done something wrong. what we're What we're doing as a community, a Christian community, is we're coming together to say, let's look at what's happening. Let's look at how these perpetrators are grooming families and communities um and so that we can push back.

05:46.33

Veronica

And so one of the things that perpetrators look for are are dads who might... um be very strong where they feel like they can come in there and abuse the child and the child is going to be afraid to tell the parents because the parents are so protective. And so what you said before about the presence being the most important thing, I think when, for dads who really want to set that safety in the relationship, the safety is i can handle it if you tell me that somebody has harmed you.

06:21.42

Veronica

i'll I'm going to be able to handle it and I'm going to be able to handle it in a way that isn't scary for you. And so one of the things that, you know, I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse. And I remember the first time um my mom found out, she had a ah very strong emotional reaction. And she was, you know,

06:44.06

Veronica

And this is really understandable because it's such a it's such an assault on a parent to hear something like this has happened. But she was so angry, she punched the wall and she said, I'm not going to tell your dad. He would be he would freak out. and so But I think it's important for parents to realize the position that that puts the child in. Then they the the child can can misunderstand that to be...

07:09.66

Veronica

oh my goodness, um I don't want to upset my parents. And so when we have conversations with our our kids about about potentially or about how do they can protect themselves, the most important um the most important tone to set with your child is...

07:30.68

Veronica

Hey, there are bad things out there that happen. There are people who do harm children. And I want you to know that if that ever happens, it's okay. You don't have to be afraid.

07:42.36

Veronica

Mom and dad can handle it. And if a child is discovered to be abused. to to address that in the moment in the calmest manner possible, and then once the child is separated, then to engage in the process of justice-seeking, which, you know, um i doesn't come from ah physical violence or or harming the perpetrator, it comes through the justice system.

08:08.15

Veronica

And we do have a justice system that is based on Christian principles. And so I think, you know, Christian dads should feel really good about that, that we are seeking truth, that we're seeking justice for victims, and that the the point of our justice system is to separate predators so that they cannot harm children. And that that process, when it's played out well, is the most healing um process that the the survivor can go through after abuse has taken place.

08:37.65

Jonathan Guerrero

I just want to add one thing to that, you know, and and I get that instinct. If you found out that your child was abused sexually, the very first thing you're going to want to do is go for your gun.

08:50.12

Jonathan Guerrero

And especially if you suspect that it's actively happening and you just want to end it as an end the person.

08:50.88

Veronica

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

08:57.12

Jonathan Guerrero

I totally, totally get that instinct. And the logic behind it makes every bit of sense, except one thing. If it's happened, The one thing that your child needs the most is your presence, your physical strong presence.

09:16.01

Jonathan Guerrero

And you can't do that behind bars. And that's exactly the way it's going to end.

09:23.39

Veronica

Mm-hmm. It's

09:24.10

Jonathan Guerrero

It's going to have the exact opposite effect of what your child needs from you the most at that moment. They're really going to need your presence. And you can fight a lot better outside of prison than you can inside of prison.

09:38.89

Jonathan Guerrero

It's just a different fight.

09:40.91

Veronica

a great point. Yeah, it's a very good point. And, you know, one of the things that um that it is the most powerful for a child who is going through the justice system after the abuse has been revealed is to have a dad um standing there with them and, you know,

10:02.41

Veronica

There's a lot of talk about gender roles in our society, um but I can tell you I've i've worked in the the the criminal justice system and I've gone through these processes and there is a difference in how people are treated when the dad is standing there and he's standing firm.

10:22.50

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Changing gears a little bit, we often teach our kids about stranger danger, but statistics show the threat is much more likely to be from someone that we know or someone in the family.

10:32.46

Veronica

Thank you.

10:37.34

Jonathan Guerrero

How can a dad perform a situational awareness check on his own inner circle without becoming paranoid or an isolationist?

10:47.51

Veronica

Yeah, so you're absolutely right. The statistics show that it is um almost always someone who's trusted and that is because perpetrators, um I mentioned the grooming process a moment ago, and perpetrators,

11:05.50

Veronica

deliberately seek out high trust environments. So what is a high trust environment? A family is a high trust environment. um Sports, um Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and churches.

11:21.14

Veronica

These are environments where, and in schools. These are environments where parents often do things that they allow their children some independence there and they trust the caretakers. And I, but I think you're right. We don't want to go overly paranoid where we don't let our children engage with these activities, which are, which are great activities. So um I would say that whenever you um have your child, one of the best ways to protect your child is to talk directly to your child. And so I know that, so let's talk about children who are, you know, have language abilities.

12:03.03

Veronica

So there are there's there are a lot of books that parents can read with their children about how how to name parts of their bodies, private parts, what are private parts, how to create boundaries. And there are books for children as young as three, four years old that use really basic language. And then there are books um that ah more target ah middle school and high school students. um One of the really good books that I like is God Made All of Me, and that's for young children. And then there's, there is a book called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, and they um that's in relation to pornography

12:42.84

Veronica

ah and that they have one for younger children and one for older children with different language. And so I really like these books because it opens up a conversation between children and their parents.

12:55.90

Veronica

And I think one of the the the problems is that we've kind of inherited a discomfort with talking about sex and so i think and and private parts and sexual abuse.

13:08.59

Veronica

And so there's a shame um component. And I think a lot of dads in my experience um are uncomfortable talking about private parts and, in you know, child sexual abuse and this these things with their children.

13:23.19

Veronica

put Yeah, because we're sort of taught, you know, that –

13:23.26

Jonathan Guerrero

for sure.

13:28.31

Veronica

If we can, we want to protect our children from these things and we want to maintain their innocence. But the problem with that is that ah this the numbers change every year. I think the last time I checked, the average age of pornography viewing, the first pornography viewing was seven years old.

13:48.47

Veronica

And so... I, you know, unless you homeschool your children and they never see anybody or ever go anywhere, it's it's likely that at some point they are going to um have access to these things through peers or um or a perpetrator is going to show them these things. um And so, you know, keeping our kids in a bubble isn't really realistic.

14:13.11

Veronica

ah So we want to be able to create a language and to be proactive understanding in talking to our kids about, hey, this is out there, you might encounter it, and if you do, here is what um here's what you should do.

14:28.50

Veronica

Here's how to keep yourself safe, and here's how to tell mom and dad that this is happening to you. So so to give the language to the child so that if if it happens, They can come home and say, dad, my teacher wanted me to keep a secret today and I don't keep secrets with adults. um So I have to tell you what happened. And, you know, that can be very simple childlike language or that can be the language of a teenager. And so I think the best defense is to have a conversation and to have ah a shared language between you and your children about these things so that they can talk to you openly about them.

15:03.36

Jonathan Guerrero

I love the idea of ah of a shared language because i i would think that removes the shame. So if they perhaps saw something that they shouldn't see, they feel comfortable stepping forward and say, hey, I saw this.

15:11.57

Veronica

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

15:17.74

Jonathan Guerrero

I don't know what to do about it. And now we can have an honest conversation. There's language and there's no shame involved. And there's a game plan and a solution.

15:27.83

Veronica

Yeah, and I think one of the things it does as well in addition to that is that, you know, and and it's related to that shame that you mentioned, which is I think a lot of times kids are scared um of getting in trouble.

15:40.38

Veronica

And ah one of the steps in the grooming process is that perpetrators slowly over time try to introduce inappropriate material.

15:53.40

Veronica

And so... the the the reason that they do this is because they want the child to think that they have been an active participant in the abuse all along. And so, you know, if a perpetrator is holding a child's hand and they think, oh, you know, I hold...

16:11.45

Veronica

a grownup's hands, that's okay. and And the next thing you know, the the perpetrator, you know, has their hand on the child's shoulder and then it moves and and goes somewhere else. And then slowly over time, that touch barrier is broken in small ways that by the time it's really gotten into, i mean, that already is, you know, the beginning process of grooming. But by the time the the event happens, the sexual abuse happens, the child can feel like,

16:41.59

Veronica

oh my goodness, i I've been a part of this, especially if the perpetrator is, you know, um I'll give you an example. So um one survivor tells the story that his perpetrator um were was showing movies at church.

16:58.17

Veronica

And so it was, they were movies that were that were appropriate enough to show at church. And then he was talking about different parts of the movie that were the most inappropriate parts. Like, I think there was a kissing scene in one.

17:13.30

Veronica

And so he would say, what did you think about that kissing scene? And so it's just sort of like this... this entanglement that the child gets into where, you know, they think, okay, this is a trusted person.

17:24.57

Veronica

We watched that movie in front of everybody. Now he's asking me about it in private. um That's okay. But then the perpetrator builds on that. So again, the point is they want to get the child in a position where they feel they've done something wrong and if they tell, they'll get in trouble. And so the way that we can counter that as parents is to make sure our kids know if anything like this ever happens to you, it's important. Adults are in charge of whether or not um the material is appropriate. So you're not, as the child, you're not in charge of that. So if something happens, you're never going to get in trouble for that. I'm here to help you if something like that happens. And if you get confused, we can talk about that. And so I think taking away the fear of punishment is something also that can help children feel more comfortable and safe talking to their parents.

18:19.50

Jonathan Guerrero

I think the other thing, and this can be an an uncomfortable topic, but what I've found is, and I've had several guests on the Fatherhood Challenge that have been sexually abused, and some of them have been men.

18:33.37

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

18:33.40

Jonathan Guerrero

And oddly enough, most of those abuses seem to happen in church. the place in the place that should be the safest, in the place where where kids should have the least concern.

18:49.82

Jonathan Guerrero

And this is where it's happening. And I don't think that's an accident at all. And I would personally attribute that to a culture, a culture problem where kids don't feel like they can say no to any kind of physical touch.

18:58.22

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

19:07.00

Jonathan Guerrero

Like if they if they're being hugged and they don't want to be hugged.

19:07.12

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

19:11.83

Jonathan Guerrero

Tickling is another one.

19:13.48

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

19:14.20

Jonathan Guerrero

There's many, many examples, but being able to say no to an adult and not feel like they're being disrespectful and then not have that being hidden under some religious dogma of being respectful to adults because that's what Jesus would do or whatever it is that they're being groomed to believe behind a mask of religion.

19:37.50

Veronica

Yeah, absolutely. And I know that we had talked a little bit before about, you know, um what church church culture, how um ah how perpetrators manipulate that in order to find a place to to abuse kids. And I think what you're saying is so spot on. It's really ah a question of authority. And a lot of churches,

20:02.42

Veronica

um You know, we know that the sort of divine structure of authority, you know, we we have children and then we have um women and wives and husbands and men, and then we have the church over that.

20:16.31

Veronica

And so we have pastors. And so... There is a structure that that God has created, so but I think part of the problem with that is that we can begin to mistake the maintenance of that authority with um we can mistake that for for implementing God's will. And what I mean by that is it we can say, oh no, we have to main, you know, it's the the the pastor gets to decide um and, or the dad or the mom or the adults around

20:51.09

Veronica

the The child can never say no. And I think that that's exactly what you're saying. The child can't say no, but that's not what church authority for, as I read it and in the Bible, that's not what church authority is.

21:01.65

Jonathan Guerrero

I lost you there for a second.

21:03.93

Veronica

Those are systems of protection for people. And so as I understand it, those are those are positions where you're serving the people under you, not dominating.

21:07.41

Jonathan Guerrero

Come on, come on. It just dropped.

21:17.78

Veronica

And I think that one of the things that

21:20.05

Jonathan Guerrero

Can you hear me

21:23.06

Veronica

Yeah. So a lot of churches mistake maintaining that system of authority over what is God's will. And what I mean by that is, so um a lot of times a mother will say, i can't prosecute this offender because I can't tell my husband is, you know, kind of as we were talking about before, he will kill him. He, I don't think he's going to be able to handle it. Or you know, this is somebody that my husband knows really well and he's really struggling. And so he wants to give the perpetrator grace instead of um prosecuting. And so there are a lot of reasons why people don't prosecute.

22:01.94

Veronica

um Or a couple, a mom and a dad will say, my pastor wants us to not um prosecute this offender because the pastor is worried about, you know, the reputation of the church or the reputation of the ministry or something like that.

22:17.94

Veronica

And so a lot of times parents, when they come to me and we're talking about these things, they're a bit confused about, well, aren't I supposed to um obey this authority that is above me?

22:29.46

Veronica

But i my response to that is always God is the ultimate authority. And so the people who God has placed in positions of authority only have the authority to pursue God's will. That's what God is giving them the authority to do. So once they step outside of God's will, then they don't have that authority anymore. So a pastor cannot say, you know, um we're going to not prosecute this crime.

22:57.43

Veronica

because i don't I'm worried about the reputation of the church. That is not following God's will, and therefore the pastor doesn't have the authority to say that. um you know And i I think one of the things that if you can think about other crimes like murder or something like that,

23:13.94

Veronica

you know, to try to imagine that your pastor says, we're going to keep this murder a secret um because I don't want to ruin the reputation of the church. And so we know this happened, but we're, none of, no one's going to do anything about it.

23:25.08

Veronica

You know, that's not something everybody would sort of understand, I think immediately, like, okay, no, that's, we can't do that. We have to follow the law and abuse, sexually abusing a child is no different. It's a crime. And so if it happens, it has to be reported.

23:39.90

Veronica

So.

23:42.27

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, and then going into another uncomfortable area, there's also a culture that, and I'm not trying to say this is in every single church, it's not, but in many churches, there is a culture of subjugating women, and it's the same type of culture that produces a ripe environment for sexual abuse of children.

23:56.50

Veronica

h

24:04.57

Jonathan Guerrero

Because if you're going to subjugate the women, you're going to subjugate the kids, all the kids.

24:04.70

Veronica

Yes, absolutely.

24:10.17

Jonathan Guerrero

And There is a link there. And if there's a cult if that type of culture exists in your church, so does a culture of pornography. And they're all linked together. It's all linked.

24:25.14

Veronica

Absolutely. um i think it's really important when, if you're choosing a church or if you're in a church where you have influence to, to find one or influence where you are in a way that reminds people that our, that Jesus said, most important thing is to love God and love your neighbor and And then there's also a definition of love in the Bible. So we know we know what that means. And it does not mean subjugation. It doesn't mean domination. It means service. Jesus was a servant. He went and served people and healed them. And he leaned into uncomfortable places where where people were in order to heal them. And so I think that's important so that we are we continue to to be Christlike.

25:11.90

Veronica

And this this culture of um that only appreciates authority over everything else or who is the person who is in power and whoever has the most power is the person that we we listen to um is actually – In my understanding, it's really the opposite of Jesus's message, that we are here to protect the powerless and to to grow our children and to teach them the way they should go so they won't depart from it, not to silence them and allow them to be harmed.

25:47.03

Jonathan Guerrero

Yeah, being an authority means you get to die for those under you. At least that's the example Jesus said.

25:51.07

Veronica

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

25:54.42

Jonathan Guerrero

I think a lot of institutions like to leave that part out or ignore that part of what leadership really means or the headship doctrines. They don't really understand it at all. Yeah, that's that's what it means. It means you get to die, if necessary, for those in your care.

26:12.28

Jonathan Guerrero

it's It's pretty serious.

26:14.46

Veronica

Yes, absolutely.

26:14.74

Jonathan Guerrero

um And then while we're on the subject of pornography, which turns out is more rampant than we thought in churches and religious institutions in general, there is a a general link between the activity itself and what it does for fueling the sex trafficking industry.

26:23.83

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

26:40.22

Jonathan Guerrero

So the consumption of of porn itself

26:40.63

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

26:43.54

Jonathan Guerrero

is directly linked to supporting the child sex trafficking industry, which is a pretty serious thing. um And I don't think churches really do enough to expose the dark side of what really goes on there.

26:59.72

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

26:59.74

Jonathan Guerrero

And, you know, and I think I'll give you one example where our church has confronted that through policies.

26:59.86

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

27:08.25

Jonathan Guerrero

So in our church, if you want to be in any kind of leadership, especially leadership where you are interacting with children, you will pass a background check.

27:19.58

Jonathan Guerrero

that's That's not optional. You either pass that background check or you will not be in leadership. The other thing is, if you are working with children, doors are always to be left open or for whatever reason they are closed. Doors are never to be locked and children are never to be in a room with a door that does not have a window.

27:45.82

Jonathan Guerrero

And because doors are unlocked, adults are are invited and encouraged to come into any room where there's another adult with a child for any reason.

27:46.28

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

27:58.11

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

27:58.39

Jonathan Guerrero

there There does not need to be an excuse or anything. there Nobody needs to knock. You just walk in the door, and anyone should be free to walk in that door.

28:09.53

Jonathan Guerrero

So it's things like that, policies like that, not being alone with a child. So if you're working, you know, for example, in my church, I teach music lessons, so I do work with kids.

28:21.18

Jonathan Guerrero

there are There's always some other adult in the sanctuary area where I'm working with that child.

28:28.43

Veronica

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

28:28.89

Jonathan Guerrero

Usually a parent, but everyone knows this policy in my church. So even if that child's parent isn't there, some other adult is going to wander in there. And I leave the doors open anyway to encourage adults to come in there and sit.

28:42.65

Jonathan Guerrero

So it's things like that.

28:45.14

Veronica

Yeah, that's wonderful. That's a really wonderful thing to do. And I think what what you're describing is that your church is making it known and sort of making a ah proclamation that we value the safety of children, we're paying attention, and you know we are going to stand firm if something like that happens. And that's...

29:08.02

Veronica

you know and you could not do better to repel a predator than to make those proclamations out loud. Because when you interview perpetrators,

29:19.93

Veronica

um they they will tell you how they, and I think a lot of people have real trouble with this, they that you know people think it's maybe a moment of weakness or you know something happened and you know, the the perpetrator is really sorry, and so we should give them grace and and move on. I hear this a lot.

29:40.70

Veronica

But when you actually talk to predators who are incarcerated, um there was, um I'll just tell you one example. So there's there's an interview um with a ah young man who used to be a youth pastor and he's incarcerated for child sexual abuse. And he was, um he was accused of abusing, ah sexually abusing a young girl who, um, was having some behavior problems.

30:09.53

Veronica

And He, because the child was having um behavior problems and it was an environment that is kind of like what we were talking about a minute ago. It was a very authority based, you know, the powerful people are in charge, the children have no voice.

30:27.13

Veronica

And so, you know, they're not allowed to say no. They're not allowed to say, hey, this adult made me feel uncomfortable. So the the church responded by supporting the youth pastor.

30:37.69

Veronica

um A little while later, he was accused by another child a second time. And um the church, again, for the second time, said, you know what, this child probably heard you were accused before and is angry with you and is trying to use that. they They sort of had their own rationale for this this idea that they have in their mind that it is the authority figure who is always right and the child is not allowed to speak out.

31:06.04

Veronica

So this perpetrator eventually was caught um by law enforcement with child pornography on his computer at home, and that's how he ended up being incarcerated. um And in his interview, he said, i specifically look for Christian environments because they're they want to believe the best in in the adults who come into the church.

31:29.40

Veronica

and they're easy to fool, he said. Now, I know that might be hard for a lot of people to hear, but nobody wants to hear that we're easy to fool or that we're being fooled. And and I know that's even difficult for me to hear. But it's important for us to understand that predators are specifically looking for these things um because they are there' doors that they can use to get in and get away with doing what they're doing.

31:57.11

Veronica

And so i love that your church has made this this public commitment to protecting children. And um i mentioned this earlier to you before we started recording, but there's an organization called GRACE, which stands for Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment.

32:13.08

Veronica

And these are all people who have a lot of wise counsel to offer churches in how to create policies that specifically counter grooming. And so if your church has the financial the financial resources, it's not too expensive, but it's not free either. But if if your church does have resources, I would highly recommend using their services. If there's an allegation of child sexual abuse, they will also do an investigation and walk through the the church with with that.

32:42.23

Veronica

And then there are group trainings um where the the staff at the church um can get together and get trained on how to identify problems, um how to counter those problems, which we've talked about some of those things already.

32:58.17

Veronica

But I think the whole point is that you want to create an environment where all of the adults are aware that these things happen. and are committed to behaving even themselves in ways that protect the child. What I mean by that is, you know, I had ah a young lady who was a survivor, and she said that the perpetrator was having trouble getting her alone, and so he, um one night during a movie night, he put a blanket over them, and he actually abused her in a room full of people underneath a blanket. And so I think that this the when you have and a group of adults who are committed and who are looking for this, you can counter those things. So you can say ahead of time, we we don't do anything that could ever put a child in ah in a situation. And by my behaving in a way that that is the most possible, um the most safely safe situation possible, it it can create an environment for everyone too. So if if we say, i would never get under a blanket with a child who is not my, you know, son or daughter um at a church.

34:15.13

Veronica

So when you see that in other people, you can sort of just say, you know oops, we don't do that here. And so that's what the the culture and the environment really creating that environment. That's how you can really keep kids safe is creating that commitment and then saying, oh, yeah, that doesn't fall in line with what we do here. And so that the person can say, okay, and then the child can be separated.

34:35.96

Jonathan Guerrero

I just want to pause here for a moment, Veronica, because you've mentioned a whole lot of resources that I think are going to be really helpful to this audience. And so I just want to say that if you go to this episode, the episode is called The First Line of Defense.

34:52.89

Jonathan Guerrero

So this is especially for those that are listening to this episode via radio.

34:54.24

Veronica

you

34:57.53

Jonathan Guerrero

If you go to the episode called The First Line of Defense, and so you would just go thefatherhoodchallenge.com, That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. Look for this episode, The First Line of Defense, and right below the episode description, there are several books that Veronica mentioned that will be referenced there and resources for churches that will all be right below the episode description.

35:24.34

Jonathan Guerrero

So going on to the next point, what are three hard questions every dad should ask his church's pastor or school or school administrator today to ensure that their protection policy is actually active and not just something on a piece of paper?

35:35.39

Veronica

Thank you.

35:42.45

Veronica

Mm-hmm. Well, I think um first making sure that there is a piece of paper, I think, is the first step because I think a lot of churches, um maybe they will have a little something somewhere, but I think just even asking, what is the policy? How how do you approach that here? how how would the church How does the church protect kids?

36:07.35

Veronica

And then asking if there is an allegation, um what how would you handle that? How should we handle that? You know, should we, do you want us to do, you know, to call the police together or you know, just sort of trying to create a partnership?

36:23.67

Veronica

um And then also, you know, how... Would you react or, you know, do you think it's okay, um and hopefully the parent knows that it is okay for a child to speak up and say that they're uncomfortable um or that they don't want, as you were saying before, that, you know, that they don't want to hug or they don't want to be tickled?

36:44.47

Veronica

um But just making sure that whoever is in charge of your child um isn't going to scold the child if they do speak out or they say, no, I don't want to hug someone goodbye or something like that. Because I think that is very true that in a lot of Christian environments, there's um there's ah a tone where it's, you know, people can say, all right, give me a hug goodbye. And if the child says that's um that the adults around will sort of coax the child a little bit. Oh, come on, give him a hug or something. And so just having that conversation of, you know, if my child's uncomfortable, um how are you going to handle that? And then making your own values very clear. I teach my child that it's okay not to um not to hug if you don't feel comfortable hugging or to say no thank you for any sort of touch.

37:35.79

Jonathan Guerrero

Veronica, you have a book that is coming out and probably by the time this episode is heard over radio, the book will already be out. Where can listeners look for this book?

37:49.50

Veronica

Yeah, so um there's not a publication date yet. it it will be published sometime this year, but we don't have ah any sort of pre-ordering yet. But if you do go to my social media or my website and sign up or follow me, you you can follow me for updates on on that and I will post on social media once the pre-order or the ordering is ready.

38:14.68

Jonathan Guerrero

And again, I'll post the link for where you can look for this book. I'll post that. the All of the social media links will be posted right below the episode description.

38:26.23

Jonathan Guerrero

If you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's where you can find that, right below this episode description.

38:29.76

Veronica

Mm-hmm.

38:34.93

Jonathan Guerrero

Veronica, this has been... a powerful conversation and we just scratched the surface on the topic. Um, so it's been heavy territory.

38:47.67

Jonathan Guerrero

And if those of you listening are feeling the weight of it, it's because you're a father who actually cares. Um, Being the sentinel of your home doesn't mean that you have to live in a state of constant fear. It means you choose to live in a state of active awareness. True protection isn't just the locks on your doors.

39:07.59

Jonathan Guerrero

It's about the strength of the connection that you build with your children. It's about being the man that they can tell anything to without fear of your reaction, silencing their truth.

39:19.33

Jonathan Guerrero

Don't let discomfort of this topic stop you from taking action. Silence is where the darkness grows, but your voice and your vigilance are the light that keeps your children safe.

39:31.86

Jonathan Guerrero

Big, big profound thank you to Veronica Thompson for her courage and her clarity. Until next time, keep your eyes open, your heart connected, and your sentinel post manned.

39:43.42

Jonathan Guerrero

Your cheekky or kids are worth the watch. We'll see you in the next episode.

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