In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into Book Two, Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They explore themes of purgation, detachment, and the “poverty of spirit” that marks the threshold of transformation. Alongside scripture and lived stories, they wrestle with the experience of emptiness, aridity, and the dark fog that seems to blind the faculties of memory and desire. The conversation touches the stories of Jonah, Job, Jeremiah, and even jazz improvisation, drawing out a conception of God who does not always lift us out of the fire but instead meets us within it. 

 Book II chapters 4-7

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

01:12 Resonating Points in Chapter Four

02:43 The Beatitudes and Purgation

04:53 Transformative Memory and Eternal Apprehensions

32:36 The Art of Recovery in Dance and Life

37:58 Exploring the Three Kinds of Good

43:14 Fog and Divine Presence

01:02:27 The Great Undoing

01:08:48 Final Reflections and Future Directions

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com