In this episode, I traveled to Seattle back in September to sit down with Dr. Devin Naar, a professor of Sephardic Studies at the University of Washington. 

Recording this interview was difficult for me. I’ve envisioned this podcast as a way to chronicle history in real time — to capture, through long-form conversations, the vastness and intensity of the post–October 7th landscape for Jews around the world, and for many others as well.

Until now, the voices I’ve centered have largely been those of self-described Zionists — people who, in the wake of an indescribably cruel and harrowing attack on Israel, have faced a wave of vitriol, intolerance, hostility, and even violence. 

But if this project is truly to document this moment in all its complexity, it also has to include non-Zionist voices — and we need to recognize explicitly that there is no single Jewish Community, but- as has always been the case-- Jewish CommunitieS. The word Israel in Hebrew- Yisrael-- means to wrestle. We usually think about this in reference to wrestling with God. But the truth is, we wrestle one another also. 

I’m not interested in speaking with anyone who uses a non- or anti-Zionist stance as a rejection of dialogue — as a reason to hurl slogans, to deny the humanity or intelligence of people (like me) who are Zionists, or to justify acts of terror. But as we all navigate what I hope is a post-war reality, I believe that staying engaged — especially with those we perceive as the “Other” — is a skill that those of us who live in a multiplicity of Jewish communities will need to cultivate--  for our civility, for our integrity, and, in some ways, for our survival.

We’ve chosen to present this interview in two parts — exactly as it unfolded. At the end of this first installation, you’ll hear, as I did, that Devin seems unsettled, that there’s more he wants to say. After wrapping up, we turned the microphones back on and continued the conversation, which you’ll hear in part two.

This interview may be challenging to listen to — just as it was challenging for me to record. But I hope you’ll stay with it, and imagine what it might be like to have a similar conversation with someone, maybe someone close to you, who has provoked in you a sense of discomfort or distress or even betrayal over these past two long years.

Credits:

Host and Creator: Manya Marcus

Managing Producer: Eli Akselrod

Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick

Editor 2: Eli Akselrod

Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar

Outro Music: Syete dias enserrados by David Haim

Listen on ⁠Spotify⁠ or ⁠Apple Music⁠