The Game of Zen

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

In this episode, Scott hands the mic to his co-host Paul Agostinelli, a longtime Zen Buddhist teacher and the creator of the Noble Path Group, to explore what it really takes to align meaningful work with your deepest, truest self. Drawing on decades of Zen practice, Paul makes the case that professional life and spiritual growth aren't separate tracks to be balanced but a single, integrated path — one that traditional monastic training, built for monks without jobs or families, was never designed to walk.

We dig into the framework at the heart of the Noble Path Group: the four questions that reorient us from "what and how" back to "who and why," the inherited and reactive vows that quietly run our lives, and the three tracks of presence, purpose, and impact. Paul also unpacks the values exercise that members love, the trap of "bypassing" — both the workaholic and the spiritual kind — and the practice of closing the gap between the small self and the awakened Self.

Whether you're facing a career transition, entering a new season of life, or simply sensing there's a deeper level to work and purpose, this conversation offers a grounded, practical map. To learn more about Paul's work and join the next cohort (starting in September), explore the links below:

Paul's Website: zenatwork.org/noble-path-group

Paul Agostinelli (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/ACoAAAAZzV8BMhw9iGchfwEPwmQGeqbybzbBCE4

The Zen Shift Newsletter: https://thezenshift.substack.com/

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

One Body Sangha: https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

00:00 Introduction

Scott welcomes listeners and turns to his co-host Paul, a longtime Zen teacher based in Boulder and the creator of the Noble Path Group. Fresh off a five-day meditation retreat, Paul sets up a conversation on why professional life and spiritual growth are far more interrelated than most high achievers assume.

01:52 What It Is: Turning Karma Into Dharma

Paul defines the Noble Path Group as a path for aligning your work in the world — career, volunteer work, or life in retirement — with your deepest, truest self. Inspired by the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path but built for modern life, it weaves meditation practice together with the realities of family, relationships, and career that monastic training never had to hold.

05:24 Who the Program Is For

The path is designed for people at a threshold — facing a career transition, a job loss, or the approach of retirement — who feel called to understand themselves at a deeper level. Paul describes his first cohort of roughly fifteen members, ranging from a thirty-year-old just starting out to seasoned professionals in their 40s through 60s arriving after multiple successful career seasons.

08:33 The Core Question: "Who Am I?"

Paul lays out the four questions at the heart of the work — who am I, why do I do what I do, what am I doing, and how — arguing that most of us over-focus on the last two. Drawing on Zen, he explores the "fluidity of self": the idea that identity is largely conditioned, and that a truer, more flexible sense of self makes for deeper work and relationships.

12:53 Inherited & Reactive Vows

Scott and Paul dig into the inherited and reactive vows formed in youth — like a silent vow to never be financially insecure — that quietly run our decisions until we turn and face them. Paul explains why naming these vows in a group is so freeing, invoking the Buddhist image of the lotus that grows out of the mud.

17:40 The Three Tracks: Presence, Purpose, Impact

Paul breaks the path into three tracks: presence (the attention and meditation practices), purpose (surfacing inherited vows and revealing your own inspired ones), and impact (bringing that forward in real-world action). Together they map onto attention, intention, and action — the throughline of the entire program.

20:33 How the Program Is Structured

Paul walks through the quarterly rhythm: three-month segments that move through presence, intention, and impact, with two themed group sessions and a Q&A each month. Meetings run over Zoom with members across the country and a few around the world, and a new cohort begins every quarter.

22:45 The Values Exercise

Scott revisits one of his favorite exercises — narrowing a list of twenty to forty core values down to just three. Paul explains why the discernment is the point: your true values become a "lodestone" that reveals why you loved one job and hated another, and where to aim next.

26:34 Core Values Are Non-Negotiable

Paul shares his own core three — freedom, wisdom, and creativity — and how he realized creativity had no formal home in his Buddhist training. His lesson: core values are non-negotiable, and disowning even one means bypassing a vital part of yourself.

30:19 Three Sacred Areas & Avoiding "Bypassing"

Paul names three sacred areas that each demand their own care — self, relationship, and work — and warns against "bypassing," where we quietly outsource one area's job to another. He tells his own story of nearly becoming a monk at twenty-six before consciously choosing to honor work and relationships alongside his spiritual path.

35:21 Closing the Gap Between Self and Self

Paul frames the whole practice as closing the gap between the small self (ego and conditioned pattern) and the big Self (our true nature as awake awareness). He clarifies that "you are Buddha" means "awakened one," not a god — and that it's our fixed ideas about who we are that keep us from that openness.

38:35 How to Join the Next Cohort

With the first cohort full, Paul shares that the next begins in September and invites listeners to book a discovery session to see if it's a fit. He points to his website, weekly sangha, and newsletter as ways to go deeper.

39:19 Closing Gratitude & Sign-Off

Scott closes with gratitude — one of his own core values — thanking Paul and the listeners. The episode ends with the show's signature blessing of peace, mindfulness, and prosperity.

In this special episode of The Game of Zen, Host Paul Gyodo Agostinelli takes a deep dive into the intersection of modern behavior science and spiritual transformation with author, behavioral coach, and podcast host Eric Zimmer. Drawing from his personal journey overcoming severe addiction, Eric shares the foundational philosophy behind his award-winning, 50-million-download podcast, The One You Feed, which explores how we can intentionally feed our "good wolf" to cultivate mindfulness and resilience. The heart of the episode features a recording from a live event at the Shambala Center in Boulder, Colorado, celebrating the release of Eric’s book, How a Little Becomes a Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life. Together, Paul and Eric unpack how micro-habits, internal value conflicts, and intentional "still points" can slowly rebuild self-trust and naturally align our daily actions with the person we truly want to become.

• 00:00 – 02:15 | Show Concept & Weekly Check-in: Host Scott Berman welcomes listeners to The Game of Zen from Philadelphia and syncs with Paul Yodo Gaselli Sensei in Boulder, Colorado. They discuss the post-Memorial Day transition into summer and frame the theme of the episode: connecting real-world habit changes with deep spiritual work.
• 02:15 – 05:30 | Guest Introduction & Context: Paul introduces his close friend and former Zen student, Eric Zimmer (host of The One You Feed). He sets up Eric’s background, his book How a Little Becomes a Lot, and details the live book-signing event they held for about 50 people at the Shambala Center in downtown Boulder a month and a half prior.

• 05:30 – 09:45 | Opening Remarks & History: The live audio cuts in. Paul introduces himself as a Zen teacher and leader of the Eon Zen Center. He details his 7-to-8-year relationship with Eric, charting Eric's trajectory from a long-distance student in Columbus, Ohio, to a prominent voice in behavioral and spiritual health. Paul maps out the format: a 35–40 minute deep-dive dialogue followed by an open audience Q&A.

• 09:45 – 15:20 | Personal Survival as Inspiration: Paul asks Eric what drove him to transition his years of audio interviews into a structured narrative book. Eric traces his deep curiosity about behavior back to his own survival cliff—recounting his historical battle with life-threatening drug addiction and observing why some peers got clean while others died. He reflects on his 12 years of podcasting and coaching hundreds of people, noting that while human transformation retains an element of core mystery, the actionable science of change is highly repeatable.
• 15:20 – 21:10 | The Modern Crisis of Meaning: Paul asks about the cultural timing of the book. Eric diagnoses a widespread cultural "crisis of meaning." He highlights that while popular secular habit books (like Atomic Habits) are massive successes because they help people maximize daily productivity, fitness, or diet, his book is an intentional effort to hijack those exact behavioral frameworks to make people wiser, happier, and more spiritually fulfilled.

• 21:10 – 26:45 | Behavior Drives Identity (and Vice Versa): Paul digs into a quote from the book focusing on two vital questions: "What do I want to do?" and "Who do I want to be?" Eric defines these as two parallel lanes on a single road. He argues that positive thinking or isolated meditation falls short if your actual conduct causes inner friction. He shares how his early recovery required strict behavior containment to allow his internal alignment and identity to heal.
• 26:45 – 32:30 | Rebuilding Faith Through Micro-Actions: Paul notes that standard habit guides give great advice on identifying as a "non-smoker" but offer no spiritual roadmap to achieve it. Eric explains his "little by little" philosophy: when people repeatedly break promises to themselves, it destroys their internal sense of agency. By scaling actions down to tiny, un-fail-able milestones, you slowly repair that self-trust and change your identity organically.

• 32:30 – 38:15 | Values vs. Desires: Paul highlights Eric's breakdown of internal motivations, moving completely away from Maslow’s traditional hierarchy of needs. He quotes Eric: "Values are what we want most; desires are what we want now." Eric explains that while value-vs-desire struggles are easy to spot (choosing a healthy meal over chocolate cake), the true silent killer of personal growth is value-vs-value competition.
• 38:15 – 43:50 | Navigating Competing Core Values: Eric asserts that value-to-value conflicts are a permanent fixture of a rich life. He references his own internal friction between his craving for adventure and his Zen training in contentment. He maps this to the classic, painful push-and-pull between career success and family presence. He teaches that the goal isn't to fix the conflict, but to consciously recognize it so you can intentionally navigate different "seasons" of life (like giving a book launch 100% of your energy for a few months before intentionally downshifting to reconnect elsewhere).

• 43:50 – 48:15 | The Mindfulness of Volition: Paul ties Eric’s perspective on choice to the Buddhist concept of karma (intentional/volitional action). Paul points out that the basic act of meditation—repeatedly choosing to bring a straying mind back to the breath—is essentially a micro-karma loop that strengthens human agency. Eric pushes back with a philosophical question, asking if automatic daily "autoplay" habits count as true choices or just past karma playing out. Paul acknowledges the massive gray zone between conscious intention and subconscious habit.
• 48:15 – 52:40 | The Evolution of Free Will: Eric shares a powerful personal story to show that free will is a muscle that expands over time. He contrasts two periods of his life:
• 30 Years Ago: Weeks sober, weighing 100 pounds with Hepatitis C, and staring down prison time, his grandfather gave him a $25 Christmas check. Despite crying and begging himself not to do it, his lack of free will at the time drove him straight to his drug dealer.
• Today: He routinely picks up heavy opiate prescriptions from the pharmacy for his ailing mother, and it takes weeks before he even remembers they are sitting in his car.
• 52:40 – 54:15 | Interconnection & Borrowing Hope: Paul shares the Buddhist Jataka tale of a small bird throwing drops of water on a forest fire to prove that minor actions matter. Eric agrees, emphasizing that community is everything. He notes that early in recovery, when he had zero self-belief, he had to literally "borrow hope" from the visible changes of people around him. He wraps up the main talk with an anecdote of a customer whose simple, intentional kindness to a grocery clerk caused a positive, multi-family ripple effect.

• 54:15 – 55:05 | Q1: Medication & Brain Chemistry: An audience member asks where pharmaceuticals fit into behavior change. Eric discusses his history with depression. He shares that while we are ultimately biological systems and medication is a literal life-saver for clinical states, his goal is always to pull as many non-medical lifestyle levers (exercise, community, meditation) as possible. He recommends using group discernment to make these personal choices.
• 55:05 – 55:50 | Q2: Habits for Harmony: An audience member asks how to translate an identity goal like "becoming a dignified person" into daily habits. Eric advises focusing strictly on the immediate "next good thing" right in front of you. He uses the headlight metaphor: your brights only let you see a few feet ahead, but that's exactly how you drive thousands of miles in the dark.
• 55:50 – 56:35 | Q3: "Still Points" and Environmental Triggers: An audience member asks for clarity on the "when this, then that" technique. Eric breaks it down into two parts: proactive crisis planning (e.g., deciding what to do if your writing time gets interrupted by a school snow day) and "Still Points." He explains that a Still Point anchors a mental habit to a physical routine—like using a trip to the bathroom to run a micro-reflection on patience.
• 56:35 – 57:25 | Q4: Overwhelmed by Finitude: An audience member feels anxiety over having only two hours of free time to split between health, friends, and reading. Eric provides a practical fix: separate decision from action by scheduling your week in advance (e.g., Tuesday is for reading, Thursday is for friends). He adds an emotional fix: accept human finitude. He shares how Zen helped him let go of the guilt of putting his dream of playing in a band "on the shelf" to make room for his current life priorities.
• 57:25 – 58:00 | Q5: Scaling "Little" Actions: An audience member asks how to avoid making habits too microscopic to care about. Eric defines a micro-habit as a low-resistance action done consistently. He points out that people almost always fail by aiming too high, not too low. He tells them to run a one-week trial: if a habit feels incredibly easy, step it up the next week; if you hit it less than 4 days out of 7, keep it small and protect consistency at all costs.

• 58:00 – 58:34 | Closing Remarks: The live event audio fades out. Show host Scott Berman steps back into the studio to thank the audience, remind listeners to subscribe and review, and leaves everyone with a traditional Zen blessing of peace and prosperity.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

In this episode, we dive deep into the "distinct competitive performance advantage of slowing down" with Aaron Hendon, a best-selling author, leadership trainer, and the Chief of the Mindful CEO. With over 30 years of experience in ontological leadership and a successful career in real estate, Aaron joins us to deconstruct the "hustle culture" trap that keeps many high-performing leaders in a constant state of reactive "temporary insanity."

We explore the neurological benefits of mindfulness, the critical importance of recovery in professional performance, and how training the brain—much like training a puppy—allows leaders to circumvent cognitive biases and access a "beginner's mind." Aaron also shares the impressive data from his nine-week training program, demonstrating how presence directly correlates to massive increases in sales and organizational retention.

To learn more about Aaron’s work and his upcoming book, visit his website and explore his nine-week practice for clarity and peace:

• Official Website: https://www.aaronhendon.com/
• The Grateful Life Practice: https://www.thegratefulbreath.com/

00:00

Introduction

Scott and Paul welcome Aaron Hendon to the show. They set the stage for a deep dive into how mindfulness practices can be integrated into high-stakes professional environments.

03:45

The "Hustle Culture" Trap

Aaron explains why the "grind" is often a distraction from true performance. He addresses the common fear that finding satisfaction in the present moment will destroy a leader's drive to succeed.

07:20

Mindfulness Data & Results

Discussion on why 80% of top performers utilize meditation to maintain their edge. Aaron shares a case study of a real estate team that saw a 160% sales increase simply by prioritizing mental clarity over new sales scripts.

12:10

The Business Logic of Presence

The core principle that action produces results, but you can only act on what you are aware of. By "seeing things newly," leaders can identify opportunities that were previously hidden by mental shortcuts.

16:30

Mindful Culture & Leadership

Exploring how a CEO’s personal presence dictates the entire organization's health. Using legendary coaches like Phil Jackson as models, Aaron shows how mindfulness uncovers the inherent brilliance of a team.

20:50

Centeredness vs. Calmness

Clarifying that meditation isn't about "emptying the mind," but about becoming an observer of thoughts. This practice neurologically strengthens the prefrontal cortex while shrinking the brain's stress center.

25:15

Navigating the "Dip"

Why most people quit meditation right when it starts to work. Aaron highlights the "valley of despair" and emphasizes why having a teacher is crucial for navigating the ego’s judgment of progress.

29:40

Recovery as a Competitive Edge

A reminder that the brain is a muscle that grows during rest, not during the workout. Aaron contrasts the unsustainable "18-hour workday" badge of honor with the recovery-focused training of elite athletes like Tom Brady.

34:10

Cognitive Biases & System 2

Moving away from "reptilian" System 1 impulses—like risk aversion and confirmation bias—through intentional slowing down. This shift allows for more analytical and less reactive decision-making.

39:00

The "Puppy" Metaphor

A practical guide to developing "agency of attention." Aaron likens the mind to a puppy that naturally wanders; the goal is to gently return it to the breath without frustration or self-criticism.

43:45

Grateful Life & Closing

A look at the framework of Aaron’s upcoming book, which moves from awareness and acceptance to natural gratitude. The episode ends with a final reminder to align attention, intention, and action.

Aaron Hendon Links:

https://www.aaronhendon.com/

https://www.thegratefulbreath.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhendon

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

In this episode, Scott and Paul pivot to a new series: The Games of Life. They explore why Zen is the 'Master Game' that prevents us from taking social rules too seriously. By deconstructing the Game of Childhood and the Game of Education, they reveal how our earliest 'characters' are built and how Zen practice helps us question the identities we've carried since the playground."

• 00:00 – Introduction & The Philly-Boulder Connection
• Scott and Paul check in from their respective coasts, discussing the seasonal shift as Paul prepares for the Spring Equinox retreat in Boulder’s uncharacteristically warm 80-degree weather.
• 01:15 – March Madness & Rooting Interests
• A brief detour into college hoops where Paul puts his money on Rick Pitino and St. John’s, while Scott sticks to his roots with the UConn men’s and women’s powerhouse programs.
• 02:10 – Defining the "Master Game" of Zen
• The hosts introduce a new series structure: viewing life as a collection of "games" (business, success, romance) and using Zen as the Master Game that makes all other social games more fluid and less "brutal."
• 03:45 – The Game of Childhood: Initial Rule Sets
• The conversation begins at birth, exploring how we don't choose our "starting map." They discuss how parents and environments dictate our early rules—like learning to eat, walk, and seek approval.
• 06:20 – Choosing Your "Game Piece" (Identity)
• Using a Dungeons & Dragons metaphor, Paul explains how childhood is the first step in creating our "character" or avatar based on the messages we receive from family and society.
• 07:40 – Belongingness & Tribal Affiliation
• Scott reflects on his own childhood friend groups and the "game of peerhood," while Paul highlights the deep relational dynamics of negotiating who "our people" are and how we handle being "kicked out" of a group.
• 10:15 – From Insecurity to Awareness
• Scott shares his personal journey from being a shy, "average" student to finding confidence later in life, illustrating how a good player of the game learns to grow and change their internal narrative.
• 11:55 – Why Mindfulness is Hard for Kids
• Paul explains why he rarely teaches formal Zen to pre-teens, noting that their developmental stage makes it difficult to "quiet down," and that a "little taste" of mindfulness is usually more effective than a full practice.
• 13:30 – The Three Components of Sincere Practice
• Paul outlines the "perfect storm" that leads to a spiritual path: experiencing the distress of an overactive mind, a glimpse that you are causing your own problems, and exposure to a practice that offers a solution.
• 15:10 – The Game of Education & The "Book of Knowledge"
• A deep dive into how school feeds our ego. Zen challenges the "expert identity" by encouraging us to question everything we’ve learned—including scientific truths—and to detach our self-worth from test scores or credentials.
• 18:50 – Sangha: Intentional Belonging
• The hosts contrast "going along to get along" with the Zen concept of Sangha—a community built on shared values, vows, and conscious intention rather than just social convenience.
• 20:15 – Family Karma & Conditioned Identity
• A look at how siblings can have wildly different "games" based on where their parents were in life at the time, reinforcing the idea that our childhood identities are conditioned qualities rather than our true nature.
• 23:20 – The Toddler Analogy: Learning to Walk
• Paul shares a powerful teaching from his master: spiritual practice is like a toddler learning to walk. They fall "over and over and over," but they never decide to give up—they just keep getting back up.
• 25:00 – Closing: Transitioning to the Game of Parenting
• Scott wraps up the session with a teaser for the next episode, where they will shift from being the "child player" to the "parent coach," exploring how our own upbringings influence how we raise the next generation.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

In this episode of the Game of Zen podcast, hosts Scott Berman and Paul Gyodo reflect on their conversations from 2025 to synthesize their core teachings and look ahead toward 2026. Utilizing NotebookLM to map out their previous content, the hosts introduce an AI-generated infographic shaped like a tree to represent the four primary "branches" of their practice: Navigating Paradigm Shifts, Cultivating Wisdom and Independence, Managing Mindset and Anxiety, and Community and Connection.

00:00 – Introduction and 2025 Reflections Scott and Paul open the show by discussing the transition into February and their process of reflecting on the conversations and lessons from 2025.

01:21 – Leveraging AI for Conceptual Modeling Paul discusses the "brilliant" utility of NotebookLM in creating visual infographics and slide decks to map out complex content pillars, such as "The Six Realms of LinkedIn".

02:40 – The Four Branches of the "Game of Zen" Tree The hosts introduce an AI-generated infographic shaped like a tree with the Buddha at the center. The four primary branches represent the core themes of the podcast: Navigating Paradigm Shifts, Cultivating Wisdom and Independence, Managing Mindset and Anxiety, and Community and Connection.

04:45 – Branch 1: Navigating Paradigm Shifts (Inner and Outer Games) A deep dive into the shift from a behavioral, "outer-focused" game space to an inner-focused space informed by Zen rules. Scott and Paul discuss the "Bodhicattva shift"—turning your personal history into purpose by transforming Karma (conditioned existence) into Dharma (wisdom/compassion).

08:34 – Branch 2: Cultivating Wisdom, Independence, and Sovereignty The hosts define the "goal" of the Game of Zen. Unlike the "karmic game" of material success, this path focuses on Prajna (wisdom), Karuna (compassion), and true sovereignty. They emphasize that while everyone forges their own unique path, the effort put into the journey is what cultivates goodness.

11:35 – "Rolling Experience into Practice" Paul explains a key vow from the Fusatsu ceremony: the commitment to roll every experience—regardless of whether it is "good" or "bad"—into one’s practice.

12:51 – Branch 3: Managing Mindset and Anxiety (The Skills of the Game) Discussion on the internal skills required to play the game, including managing reactivity and embracing impermanence. The hosts use a sports training analogy to explain how mindful mastery helps one handle high-pressure moments in business and personal life.

17:53 – Branch 4: Community and Connection Exploring why you can't play the "Game of Zen" alone. They discuss the importance of the Sangha, the roles of coaches and mentors, and how to maintain Zen practice when interacting with people who are playing different "social games".

21:05 – Aging and the Evolution of Practice Scott and Paul reflect on how the "game" changes as you age. They emphasize that while smarts may come with age, wisdom is earned through consistent meditation and updating one's practice to fit shifting life circumstances.

22:56 – Looking Ahead to 2026: Navigating Global Breakdown Paul shares his perspective on the coming year, anticipating a dramatic breakdown and dissolution of traditional international, political, and economic orders. They argue that the millennia-old rules of Zen are the most reliable tools for empowering your life during these challenging times.

25:52 – Why You Can’t Play the "Game of Zen" Alone The hosts transition into the fourth branch of their "Game of Zen" tree: Community and Connection. Paul explains that while you can play a game like golf alone, you lack a real assessment of your progress without others. He emphasizes that this stage is about harmonizing your wisdom and "awakeness" with other beings.

27:15 – Shifting from Social Games to the "Main Game" Paul shares a personal reflection on the gift of shifting focus away from karmic or social games. He describes a "role-playing" approach to life, where he may pretend to play conventional social games while his "main game" remains the internal practice of Zen. This shift allows for collaboration rather than competition when engaging with others on the same path.

29:20 – Navigating a World That "Isn't Playing the Game" A discussion on the "trickiness" of maintaining Zen practice when interacting with people who are not on a Buddhist path. Paul notes that because most people are playing different "games," it is essential to have a community of other players to provide support and guidance.

30:30 – From "Rookie" to the Big Leagues: The Role of Coaches Scott shares his experience moving from a "rookie Buddhist" to higher levels of practice. He compares the Zen community to a sports team, where players need teammates, opponents, and coaches to help them "raise their level". Paul agrees, noting that while one must forge their own path, guides and veteran players are essential to the journey.

32:15 – Aging, Impermanence, and the Difference Between Smarts and Wisdom The conversation turns to how the "game" changes as life circumstances and family dynamics shift over time. Scott advocates for consistent meditation as a way to "update" one's practice to fit these changes. Paul offers a playful correction when Scott suggests he is "smarter" than he was 10 years ago, noting that "smarts isn't wisdom".

34:05 – 2026: The "Breakdown and Dissolution" of Traditional Orders Looking ahead, Paul anticipates 2026 will be a year of accelerated structural breakdown. He predicts the dissolution of normative "games," such as traditional views of the American Dream or social scripts for marriage. He argues that as international, political, and economic orders face dramatic breakdowns, the millennia-old rules of Zen remain a reliable, tried-and-true framework for empowering one's life.

36:45 – Closing and Final Resources The episode concludes with an invitation to follow Paul’s "Zen Shift" newsletter on Substack and an expression of gratitude to the listeners. The hosts end with a blessing for continuous growth and mindful living.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

Can you find enlightenment on a London Underground platform or in the middle of a £25 million corporate crisis? In this episode of Game of Zen, hosts Scott Berman and Paul Gyodo Agostinelli sit down with Mark Thornton, former COO of JPMorgan Private Bank and author of Meditation in a New York Minute. Mark shares his radical journey from a "caffeine-addicted stress junkie" in the high-stakes world of global finance to a renowned Zen teacher and leadership consultant for Wharton and Harvard Law.

Mark demystifies the idea that spiritual practice requires a mountaintop, offering instead a "micro-dosing" approach to mindfulness designed for the world’s busiest professionals. This conversation explores how to break the false correlation between stress and results, and why 5% of Wall Street is quietly fueling a spiritual revolution.

[0:00] – Introduction to Game of Zen Hosts Scott Berman and Paul Guyoto Augustineelli introduce the podcast's mission: exploring the intersection of professional, personal, and spiritual growth through the lens of Zen.

[1:25] – Meet Mark Thornton An overview of Mark’s background as the former COO of JPMorgan Private Bank in London, a best-selling author, and an instructor for leadership programs at Wharton Business School and Harvard Law School.

[3:45] – The Catalyst: A Father’s Miracle and a Childhood Awakening Mark shares the story of his father’s terminal cancer diagnosis and subsequent 25-year survival, which led to Mark's first profound awakening experience at age 13.

[6:15] – Banking: "Where Awakening Goes to Die" Mark describes his life as a "caffeine-addicted stress junkie" in London's high-finance world, struggling to find the 20 minutes for traditional meditation while his physical health suffered.

[10:30] – The £25 Million Crisis and the Tube Station Epiphany How spiritual practice Bore fruit during a corporate merger crisis and a transformative experience of "divine light" while standing on a London Underground platform.

[14:10] – "I'm Pregnant with a Book": Leaving JP Morgan The story of Mark asking for a year off to write, being told no by his boss, and ultimately leaving the bank to meet 32 spiritual teachers across 13 countries.

[19:45] – The "New York Minute" Method Explaining the breakthrough concept of "micro-dosing" mindfulness: practicing in small, cumulative moments throughout the day rather than one long consecutive session.

[24:00] – Corporate Spirituality: Wall Street’s Thirst for Wisdom Mark discusses bringing "Corporate Spirituality" to Goldman Sachs and finding that, while 85% of Wall Street may not be interested, 5% are "thirsty" for deep spiritual tools.

[30:20] – Relanguaging Spirituality for the "Untouched" The challenge of translating ancient wisdom for people who feel "too busy" for meditation and avoiding jargon like Sanskrit to reach a broader audience.

[36:15] – Rapid Cycling and Global Consciousness A discussion on how the modern "chaos" of the world (AI, geopolitics) acts as fuel for awakening, forcing individuals to bump up against their limitations and seek healing.

[43:40] – The Three Sacred Marriages Integrating the three areas of life: Self, Work, and Others. Mark and Paul discuss the importance of not bypassing professional or relational paths in favor of a monastic life.

[48:10] – Leading with Love: Transforming the Boardroom Practical advice on seeing work as a platform for love and wisdom, including how to transform annual appraisals into sacred exchanges.

[52:30] – Final Zen Wisdom and Closing Quotes Mark shares his favorite Zen quotes: "In meditation there are only ever beginners" and "To disturb something is to be attached to it".

Meditation in a New York Minute - https://www.amazon.com/Meditation-New-York-Minute-Super/dp/1591794293

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

This podcast episode, "From Karma to Dharma," Hosts Scott & Paul explore the concept of the Bodhisattva—an archetypal energy in Mahayana Buddhism focused on personal awakening and helping others do the same. The discussion centers on making a fundamental shift in perspective: moving away from an obsessive focus on karma (personal, conditioned circumstances and plans) to embracing dharma (one's wisdom, teachings, and participation in the bigger, interdependent mystery of life). The hosts discuss how this shift lessens personal suffering, combats "monkey mind" habits (like analysis paralysis and catastrophizing), and brings greater meaning and spiritual growth by allowing one to turn life's conditions into wisdom that can help others.

0:00 Introduction & Host Catch-up: Scott Berman welcomes Sensei Paul Gyodo. They briefly discuss Paul's recent trip to the East Coast, noting the cultural differences.

2:30 Introducing the Topic: From Karma to Dharma: The episode's focus is introduced: Paul's latest newsletter on Bodhisattvas—how to recognize them and become one.

3:10Norman Fischer Quote & Defining Bodhisattva: Paul shares the quote: "Bodhicattvas don't mind much what happens to them. Their lives are larger than the plans they may have had for them." Paul defines the Bodhicattva as the Mahayana Buddhist ideal—a being that seeks awakening not just for themselves but to help others.

5:35 The Shift from Personal Gravity: Discussion on how the Bodhicattva mindset moves beyond obsession with one's own plans, problems, and personal gravity, recognizing a larger context and interdependent reality.

7:00 The Value of Helping Others: Scott shares his experience that helping others (using his gained knowledge) makes him feel better about his own internal problems, aligning with the Bodhisattva ethos.

8:45 Plans and the Monkey Mind: Discussing the humor in making plans ("How do you make God laugh? Tell her your plans.") and how getting caught up in the perception of what should happen fuels the "monkey mind" when things inevitably change.

10:45 Ignorance as the Root Poison: Referencing the Buddha's three poisons (greed, hatred, and ignorance). Paul emphasizes that ignorance is the most difficult, particularly the self-limiting view of ourselves as isolated and smaller than we truly are.

12:50 Internal Ignorance & Limited Identity: Further discussion on the internal layer of ignorance—believing that our ideas about reality are reality, and limiting our identity to our conditioned life (education, biology, etc.).

14:00 Bodhisattva Ethos: The Parental Mind: Scott connects the Bodhicattva's desire to help to the realization of one's ability to help people, especially seeing it through parenting—the parental mind is an animating spirit of the Bodhicattva.

15:40 Minimizing Maladaptive Habits ("Weather System"): Using the analogy of a weather system to deal with overwhelming internal conditions (like workaholism, catastrophizing). You take refuge and wait for them to pass, rather than trying to stop the storm.

18:50 Turning Karma into Dharma (The Core Reframe): Paul explains his expression: "Bodhisattva turns their karma... into their dharma." Karma is the conditioned life resulting from choices; Dharma is one's wisdom, teachings, and path. The shift is viewing life's circumstances not as limitations but as material for wisdom.

21:20 The Eightfold Path as a Skill Set: Scott connects this reframe to the Eightfold Path—using its components (Right View, Right Speech, etc.) as a way to assess and learn from past actions, thus gaining wisdom.

22:45 The Crisis of Meaning: Paul discusses the current societal "crisis of meaning" and how a karmic, personal-assessment focus cannot provide a solid foundation for meaning. Dharma—seeing life as a spiritual unfolding—provides a sound, non-contingent basis for meaning.

25:30 Technology and Collective Karma: Discussing how technology amplifies both good (influence) and bad (discord). The need to suffer the collective afflictions (zeitgeist) to be motivated to bring forth the positive, especially through human connection.

27:50 Internal Work Leads to External Benefits: The internal work (dharma) leads to external benefits (positive karma). Discussing the difference between positive (wholeness/thriving) and negative (separation/suffering) karma, and the power of small, kind actions.

30:30 Personal vs. Collective Karma: Explaining that personal karma is resolved personally, while collective karma (social/political issues) must be resolved collectively. Individual action should focus on joining collectives working toward positive change.

32:15 Spiritual Wealth vs. Material Wealth: Scott uses the analogy of Warren Buffett's giving pledge to pivot to the idea of building spiritual wealth (wisdom/dharma), which is equally, if not more, valuable than material wealth.

34:00 Conclusion & Next Steps: Paul offers the final takeaway: everyone has the ability to turn their karma into wisdom and compassion. Scott recommends Paul's resources (newsletter, coaching, One Body Sangha) for starting this spiritual journey.Would you like me to find a specific resource mentioned, like Paul's "Zen Shift" newsletter, or delve deeper into one of the concepts like Dharma.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

Hosts Scott and Paul discuss the interplay between Zen Buddhist principles and everyday life, focusing on the concept of insufficiency or "not enoughness," which the first truth of Buddhism identifies as the root of suffering. The hosts explore how this sense of lack manifests across six key categories—time, money, people, information, energy, and attention—while sharing personal anecdotes and philosophical insights. A central theme is the importance of attention as the one resource individuals have the most control over, with the hosts ultimately advising listeners to focus on the resources they possess rather than those they lack. The discussion also touches on achieving happiness by embracing the idea that "every day is a good day," including those marked by setbacks or illness, and by shifting one’s focus toward inspired vows rather than solely personal satisfaction.

0:00 - 1:04 Introduction: Welcome, hosts, location, and the episode's central theme: the interrelation of professional, personal, and spiritual growth, and the application of Zen principles to address the "not enoughness" that causes suffering.

1:04 - 2:07 Setting the Stage & Current Events: Scott checks in; Paul discusses being sick and recovering; brief mention of Halloween and the hosts' activities (Scott's Sixers costume).

2:07 - 4:47 The Six Resources of Insufficiency: Introduction of the episode's main topic: Paul's newsletter on "not enoughness" and the six categories of resources: Time, Money, People, Information, Energy, and Attention. Discussion of Dukkha (suffering) as insufficiency and the cultural obsession with Time and Money.

4:47 - 12:44 Deep Dive: Time: The "adversarial relationship" with time; the limitations of linear/chronological time; introducing the qualitative dimension of time (depth, focus, attention); Oliver Burkeman's 4,000 Weeks. Discussion on maximizing precious time, the futility of worrying about the past/future, and the Zen koan: "Every day is a good day."

12:44 - 17:34 The Role of Attention (Master Ikyu's Story): How the idea of a "bad day" creates suffering; the cause of insufficiency as the gap between ideas and reality; Attention as the most controllable resource. Master Ikyu's teaching on attention; putting attention on what you have versus what you're lacking.

17:34 - 22:58 Information and Energy: Scott's struggle with information intake; the balance between information/energy/time; tuning into intuitive sources of information and the body's energy (qi); how meditation helps manage time and energy; the wastefulness of worrying and stress.

22:58 - 30:57 Deep Dive: People: Scott's struggle with not having enough time for everyone; making the most of contact; holding people in a "circle of awareness" even when not physically present; the energy drawn from quality relationships; the importance of maintaining networks. The vital step of feeling the deficiency/lack (loneliness, lack of money) and letting it motivate positive action, rather than denying it.

30:57 - 35:05 The Achievement Treadmill and Vows: The sadness of successful people driven only by making more money; the hook of achievement and how it relates to self-worth; the quote on being disconnected from "inspired vows" and being caught in the "sticky web of too much and not enough." The solution: opening up to a bigger world/aspiration to embrace suffering.

35:05 - 35:56 Conclusion: Final thoughts, the "Game of Zen" being about attention, and sign-off.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

This conversation, "The Game of Zen," covers four key "self-evident truths" from Paul's "Zen Shift" newsletter and the essential practice of mindful living when navigating difficult, tumultuous times.

This thought-provoking episode of The Game of Zen centers on the "Zen Shift"—the profound change in perspective needed to counter the psychological danger of holding false or distorted views about life. The hosts meticulously examine deep-seated societal distortions, such as the overwhelming tendency to link self-worth exclusively to tireless hard work and the perilous trap of the "problem seeking mind" that remains hyper-vigilant and obsessively focused on non-existential threats. The remedy, as discussed by Sensei Paul, involves consciously moving past the pervasive cultural belief in the scarcity of resources (the Buddhist concept of dukkha or insufficiency) and the ultimate delusion that one is in absolute control of external events. Instead, a dedicated daily practice is required to "zoom in" on one's present quality of mind and body, ultimately allowing one to live a more secure, grounded, and genuinely happy life.

00:00Podcast Introduction The hosts, Scott and Sensei Paul, introduce the Game of Zen podcast, focusing on the interrelation of professional, personal, and spiritual growth through Zen and mindfulness.

01:21 Hosts' Check-in & News Scott checks in from Philadelphia, mentioning his upcoming trip to Abu Dhabi to work the Sixers' preseason games. Paul shares his experience starting a 90-day intensive period with his Zen community in Boulder.

02:00 Introduction to "Zen Shift" Scott introduces the main topic, Paul's latest newsletter, "Zen Shift," which addresses living in "dangerous times" and managing world division, angst, and violence with Zen tools.

03:22 Truth 1: Life is Hard Discussion on the first "self-evident truth": "Life is hard and we must earn our keep." They discuss cultural programming, the overemphasis on work to prove self-worth, and the challenge of balancing this with a more thriving, less individualistic life.

07:44 Truth 2: Anxiety is Necessary Discussion on the second truth: "A constant state of busyness and anxiety is not only natural but necessary." Paul explains the "problem-seeking mind," hypervigilance, and the need to reframe the idea of a "problem" by starting with what one wants to manifest instead of what needs to be solved.

12:56 The News and Hypervigilance Scott discusses his struggle with local news and the constant exposure to negative events. Paul shares his recent success with a "news diet," noting the immediate positive impact on his base level of anxiety and sleep.

15:47 Truth 3: Resources are Scarce Discussion on the third truth: "Time, money, and other resources are constantly in scarce supply." They relate this to the Buddhist concept of Dukka (insufficiency) and the "sense of not enoughness." Paul reframes currency as a "flow" and encourages entering into the current of what one does have.

26:17 Truth 4: Make It On Your Own Discussion on the fourth truth: "We must make it on our own. Relying on society is naive." They discuss the anxiety produced by the cultural emphasis on individualism and the healing power of recognizing our fundamental place in an interdependent web.

31:49 The Danger of Control Discussion of the quote: "You live every day dreaming that you're in control..." Paul relates the story of the Zen master known as Bird's Nest Roshi to illustrate how believing one can control external events is the real danger, especially when one doesn't know their internal self.

36:34 Final Teaching & Self-Care They discuss the essential teaching of the Dharma: "Commit no evil, do good deeds." They emphasize the importance of self-care and practicing compassion toward oneself, recognizing that a full, healthy self is essential for meeting others' needs clearly.

38:59 Closing Remarks Scott and Paul wrap up the episode, encouraging listeners to check out the "Zen Shift" newsletter and consider coaching.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance

Hosts Scott Berman and Sensei Paul explore a global paradigm shift from a materialist to an animist understanding of reality, emphasizing the primacy of consciousness. They examine the accelerating pace of change, particularly with technological advancements like AI, and advocate for an inner shift towards presence, non-control, and a mind of not knowing to navigate this rapid transformation. The conversation highlights the importance of human connection, compassion, and self-awareness as essential tools for flourishing in an ever-evolving world, recommending resources like Paul's "The Zen Shift" newsletter.

Hosts Scott Berman and Sensei Paul introduce the episode, focusing on the interconnectedness of professional, personal, and spiritual growth. Paul discusses the evolution of his newsletter from "Zen at Work Today" to "The Zen Shift," which reflects a broader global paradigm shift that is impossible to compartmentalize. This "outer shift" moves society from a materialist worldview, which struggles to explain consciousness, to a new animist paradigm where consciousness is understood as primary.

The hosts explore the unprecedented acceleration of change in modern times. Scott highlights rapid technological advancements like AI and neuroplasticity. Paul quantifies this, noting a "20x acceleration factor" over millennia, which means shifts that once took generations now happen in years. They discuss the challenges this poses, as traditional worldviews cannot adapt quickly enough, leading to an "uncontrolled way" of change.

The conversation shifts to managing the destabilizing external changes through an "inner shift." Paul emphasizes using the "mind of meditation" to cultivate presence and an intimate relationship with one's being. This involves cultivating clarity (wisdom) and capacity (compassion) to stay grounded amid challenges, rather than being subject to the "whims of the world." The key is to be the "eye of the hurricane."

The hosts discuss the transition from a view of isolated individuals to one of profound interconnectedness. Paul and Scott highlight that the new paradigm recognizes that all beings arise from the same fundamental element. This aligns with Thich Nhat Hanh's concept of "interbeing" and "engaged Buddhism," which emphasizes that simple acts of kindness affect everyone. They stress that compassion is essential to counteract the egoic nature of the old materialist paradigm.

Scott and Paul share their personal strategies for navigating these shifts. Scott’s practices include meditation, getting out in nature, and seeking support from mentors and friends. He highlights the importance of surrender and acknowledging you can't "figure everything out." Paul discusses the opportunity to become the center of your own sense-making by relying on personal sensory experience and creating meaning through one’s own intentions and commitments.

The conversation concludes by reiterating that navigating the shift is a "daily thing" and a "work in progress." They encourage listeners to use the "Game of Zen" principles as a foundational rock to help handle daily life. Paul's newsletter, "The Zen Shift," and other resources are recommended for continued learning and support.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-game-of-zen/id1700988890

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2bjnPE66RC1bCL6h7i68jt?si=184f256fd76342e3&nd=1

Podcast Landing Page: https://game-of-zen.captivate.fm/

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMJ2A-vZkd5ba7bW_8KNFgdkXiSfQh_xv

Paul Agostinelli

One Body Sangha -- https://www.onebodysangha.org/

The Zen Shift Newsletter - https://thezenshift.substack.com/

One Body Sangha - https://www.onebodysangha.org/

Email: [email protected]

#GameOfZen #NobleTruths #entrepreneurship

#Buddhism #Mindfulness #Zen #Concentration #Buddha #Attachment #Impermenance