We finally worked up the courage to get Jeff Richard on our show!

Jeff is the Creative Director and Chair of Chaosium, the lead writer on most of the RuneQuest books, the lead art director on RuneQuest, and the editor for Pendragon. Jeff is also generally responsible for the look and feel of the Chaosium books.

Jeff’s roleplaying career started in the late seventies with not being able to make much sense of the original D&D rules but getting the system from playing Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha. It was in Middle or High School when one of his friends brought a copy of RuneQuest and advertised it as a game where you could play anything in the setting, even a were-pig. Even better, they realized it was in the same setting as that board game White Bear and Red Moon which they had played before.

Jeff had been gaming for quite some time before he and Greg Stafford started writing together in the late 1990s. In the 2000s Jeff and Rick Meints ended up pretty much taking over the leaderless Issaries Inc. with its Hero Wars/HeroQuest line, putting out the second (generic) edition of the HeroQuest rules and campaign books for Sartar and Pavis. A few years later Greg Stafford regained control over Chaosium and brought the Moon Design crew (expanded to include Michael O’Brian aka MOB and Neil Robinson) in to take over the company.

Ludo mentions that Jörg told him just before the recording about the werepig. Jeff confirms that Pinky Petunia was his first character (who didn’t last very long), a kamikaze werepig which was the coolest experience to a 14 or 15 year old who had been playing just AD&D and related games with their very limited set of character classes and races.

Jeff also was part of the Seattle Farmers Collective, a group of Seattle roleplayers including Jeff, David Dunham, Neil Robinson, Pam Carlson, Dana Shack (?), Dave Pearton and others which engaged in a number of ways of exploratory gaming in the nineties.

David Dunham had managed to marry the Pendragon rules with RuneQuest, which on retrospect is pretty easy, and the Collective played a couple of generational games in various places in Glorantha. What was interesting was that the characters were the local community, and they were involved in these Bronze Age feuds, and the more the characters succeeded the worse the things would turn out.

At the time, Jeff was reading a lot of Icelandic Sagas and researching theories of feuds, of how feud systems would end up to create an equilibrium.

A lot of those experiences worked their way into David Dunham’s computer game King of Dragon Pass, and then, twenty years later, a lot of that worked its way into the current edition of RuneQuest.

Ludo mentions that a lot of people who play RuneQuest might recognize its setting as that of the King of Dragon Pass or Six Ages games, much like Jeff had the experience with the White Bear and Red Moon boardgame.

Jeff talks about the demography of the players of RuneQuest and the fans of Glorantha. It is very clear that a lot of old-time fans are getting back into it, but sales numbers indicate that it is largely a new audience. There are people coming in from David Dunham’s computer games, others come in from the Morrowind/Skyrim connections (mentioned in this interview with the designers).

Jeff often jokes that old RuneQuest is The Velvet Underground of gaming, selling 20,000 copies but everybody who ended up owning a copy leaving a big impression. Ludo inserts the saying “You might not know RuneQuest, but RuneQuest is your favourite game designer’s favourite game.”

Jeff argues that this changed in the last decade or so as RuneQuest had largely been dead as a rules system since the early nineties. Now it has a new edition, it has a very active fan-base, it is showing up at conventions, its audience is growing – Jeff will probably have to retire that Velvet Underground joke. What would have happened if that band had ever actually caught on?

Ludo points out the good influence of new people coming in to the setting, and mentions our Gloranthan Initiation series of interviews where we talk to people comparatively new to the setting (which we upload in between the main episodes of this podcast).

Asked for roleplaying games outside of the BRP family, after rattling off a number of games published by Chaosium (Pendragon, Call of Cthulhu, Nephilim) Jeff mentions Vampire: The Masquerade as a game he enjoyed a lot, and Ars Magica, which he did a couple of campaigns with. Both these games offered something else than going underground knocking down doors and taking people’s shit. Other games include the old West End Games Star Wars, FGU’s Bushido (which shared one of the authors with RQ3’s Land of Ninja). Ludo points out Bushido’s battle rules, while Jeff emphasizes its implementation of the samurai code of honour. Jeff names Chris Klug’s James Bond 007 as one of his favourite games of all time, too, comparing it to Pendragon for brilliantly designed games.

Ludo points out Jeff’s role in the first ever Gloranthan podcast, Tales of Mythic Adventures which he co-hosted with Michael O’Brian (aka MOB). Jeff explains that setting up a regular podcast or just any kind of regular show is a gigantic time commitment (you can nearly hear Ludo and Jörg nodding sagely at that), and for some reason people thought that it was more important that Jeff and MOB write and create books for there to be podcasts about.

Jörg points towards Jeff’s work on the Prince of Sartar webcomic which went into indeterminate hiatus for the same reason. Again, some people out there put more value in new books being produced rather than Jeff and Kalin Kadiev producing an experimental webcomic. Ludo recalls people crediting the webcomic for drawing them back into the Glorantha hobby. Again, Jeff blames the time commitment, but calls it a platform to play around with the look and feel of things, and you can see a lot of impact from that in the later art direction and the look and feel of the RuneQuest books.

With this, we have completed the introduction of our guest, and we can drop into the Cults of RuneQuest series. Ludo quotes Jeff having said that this was the biggest project he had worked on in his career so far, and asks whether Jeff can take a break now or whether he is already diving into his next big project.

Jeff replies that there are no breaks. One of the differences between fan publications and his current position is that he does that for a living, so he can’t sit back and take a nice pause now a project gets fulfilled. At the end of the day, what Chaosium is all about is to create new books and new adventures.

Jeff is in the process of looking at the first pass of the layout for the Lunar book, looking into the refining, and hoping that it will be off to the printer in the next couple of weeks. After that there will be the Guide to Dragon Pass, and after that either the Sartar campaign book or the Solar volume of Cults of RuneQuest. Jeff describes the situation of his layout people as working on a conveyor belt. Jeff enjoys that RuneQuest now is in a situation where Chaosium could realistically schedule six to eight RuneQuest books in any twelve months period. Other than RuneQuest, the Pendragon line is getting up to a similarly lively publication schedule. Ludo allows himself to be distracted from Glorantha giving his appreciation for the layout style of Pendragon with all those little medieval illuminations in the margins.

Jeff compares the word count of the Cults books with that of the Guide, both being in roughly the same magnitude. Asked what was the most complicated aspect of the project, Jeff confirms it was the inter-connectedness which made the project so much harder, making sure that all of these rules systems tie into each other. Jeff describes the Guide as a fictional encyclopedia, a purely narrative description of the setting which doesn’t need to be mechanically linked. For example, when you go through the associated cults you need to make sure they all line up with each other. Ludo claims that you can’t make a big table cross-indexing all cults with one another, and while Jeff did actually create such a table with a hundred by a hundred entries when developing the books, including spreadsheets documenting which cults allow sorcery, which cults allow shamanism, which cults are associated with other cults, which cults are enemies… That was a whole other level of complexity compared to writing the Guide to Glorantha.

When asked about the Mythology book, Jeff confirms that it is already printed, and going to be released in October. Go and buy, buy, buy! He goes on to show us the printed proof, which doesn’t do that much to our audience, as no-one can see this (yet), but boy it looks pretty.

In an absolute ideal world where Chaosium did not have to worry about marketing and building their audience, Jeff would have liked to start the Cults of RuneQuest series with the Mythology as the leading book. In Jeff’s view the Mythology book is the most important book in the series because it explains how Greg Stafford and Jeff view mythology and how to interact with the rest of the books. It provides the framework for the rest of the Cults books. On the other hand, in itself it has no cults in it.

Jeff supports Chaosium’s marketing decision to go with the Prosopaedia first, presenting a huge number of deities, and then the volumes Lightbringers and Earth Goddesses which include the most popular player character cults.

Now that the books are broken up into eleven volumes, Ludo asks about who would be the customers for which books of the series. While a player mainly interested in playing earth cults will be well served with the Earth Goddesses volume, would the Mythology book be catering to the GMs instead?

Jeff views all of the Cults books as player-facing. While a player may say “I never play a Darkness cult, I won’t need that book”, and that’s totally fine. With the exception of the Lords of Terror book all the Cults Books contain stuff that you might play. As a player, Jeff would probably buy the book with the cult of the character, and then the companion book about all the other cults in the party, and then the Mythology book which connects all the stories of the deities. Jeff tried to provide the most detailed presentation of the Monomyth to date.

Jeff tells us how Greg had tried to write the Mythology book based entirely on individual stories. You would then be able to assemble the Monomyth by realizing that all these stories fit together. There are two problems with this approach. One is that the entire project is getting really long. The other is that at some point you start writing stories to fill in gaps, resulting in some stories just not being as good. Greg always worked better when he had this great inspiration and came up with an amazing story, and in that story he would see how it would fit into the overall framework of the Monomyth. On the other hand, when he had to write all that stuff between the lines, he ended up with a lot of stuff that lacked that brilliance and probably should have been rejected a long time ago.

The approach taken by the Mythology book is to provide the overview of the Monomyth supplemented by small stories that give you examples how that would work. As a result it reads better and can actually be done in a reasonable deadline rather than try to finish the Belintar’s Book project which would collect all the stories that are known.

Ludo reports his experience how the Monomyth shines through the various stories told in the two Cults Books published so far, and he has been wondering whether the Monomyth is a convenient construct for a gaming world or whether Greg just was a great fan of Joseph Campbell and wanted to implement his theory.

Greg Stafford started writing his fictional mythology back in the Sixties, and there has been a framework to the mythology since 1966 or 1967 and has always been there since. It got the title of the Monomyth in recognition of Joseph Campbell, but it has a structure similar to how Tolkien’s Legendaria has structure to it. This is where Glorantha is a work of fantasy and experimental mythology. We can do things in the world that make it feel more real and that can take us a step further than we can imagine with real world mythologies.

Ludo brings up interconnected stories like e.g. the Marvel Cinematic Universe but points out that mythology doesn’t need as much consistency as that. Myths may very well contradict each other. Ludo asks how the Cults series avoids creating just a Gloranthan cinematic universe where all the stories line up perfectly consistent with one another, creating a One True Monomyth. Jeff replies that there is an essay in the Mythology book addressing that. One of the things that was important to Greg (and Jeff) is that the very worst approaches to understand mythology is to grab a book and argue about the details as you largely miss the point of the stories.

The best way to understand mythology is for it to show up in your games, for your GM and the player characters to participate in it and to experience it. It would even better to be that person and directly interact with spirits and gods, but given the limitations of our experiences that is difficult to arrange. The next best way to experience the mythology is to play it, and after that the next best is to listen to someone telling you the stories (in a minimally interactive way). Treating the events in a myth as cold facts from a book is the worst way to interact with the myth. Still, nerds being nerds, these details usually end up being what is discussed on internet forums. Most Glorantha fans fall into the group experiencing the myths through play or narration, appreciating that there is a structure where it all fits together, ideally leading them onward to think about other things.

One of the ironies Jeff experiences is that people brand new to the setting get this point a lot better than people who have been arguing about it for years.

Ludo lists a number of grand themes that myths deal with: why people do what they do, why society has to work this way etc., touching on death and gender roles and other sensitive topics. Ludo brings up a couple of cases where people have complained about depictions of nudity or of animal sacrifice in the art. Jeff (who had a foot in both the European and the American side of things) points out that contrary to Ludo’s expectations Chaosium never had any complaints like that from the US. The complaints came from the UK or in case of the animal sacrifices from Spain.

Jeff views RuneQuest as game material for mature individuals of whatever age able to deal with topics like life, death, sex, gender, social organization. A lot of the stuff is “Where does the world come from?” or “Why do things function the way they do?” In order for that to feel real and to be artistically honest it is gonna hit a lot of stuff that we don’t like to talk about as much, especially in this social media-driven world that we find ourselves in today. Asked whether Chaosium actually had to wave away certain vocal minority problems, Jeff tells that they started out being very careful about how they presented things, there being some ground rules. Jeff tries to be as open and aware of inclusion as possible. There are some things that don’t exist in Glorantha like a race-based slavery with large scale deportation in the setting. Writing takes a combination of care and artistic integrity. When problematic topics arise, it is because they are part of the world, and not out of a sense of mischief or trying to be shocking. A fantasy setting cannot just be about things we like and aspire to, but also need things we fear and hate. People’s reaction is different when such elements enter the story with artistic integrity rather than when they are smuggled in only for shock value.

Ludo describes the Monomyth as the way each cult and deity fits into the grand scheme of the cosmos. Presented in the core rules book with three seemingly redundant hunter cults (Foundchild, Odayla and Yinkin) Ludo was confused why there were three such gods, but with the Lightbringers book their respective roles and context has been clarified. Jeff reminisces that at the time of putting together the core rules book Jeff knew that it would be quite a long time before Chaosium could deliver the detailed cult write-ups, so the designers had to find a compromise between providing a set of archetypes that exist in the world but also throwing in a few existing cults that were fan favourites from earlier editions. While these may not be as mythologically important, people might whine if these were missing. If the designers had decided to have only Yinkin as the example hunter cult, that would have been pointless for people wishing to game in Prax. The one cult that almost did not make the cut was Odayla who isn’t really that important in the core area covered by the rules, but as Jason Durall pointed out, that cult allows its members to become a bear, and how awesome is that?

Any time the designers create a book, they establish the setting and provide its content, and try make sure that the setting and fantasy fiction fit together, but also it has to function as a game, to keep people engaged in it is also terribly important because that is what RuneQuest is for.

Asked whether it would be hard to make these cults playable, Jeff answers that e.g. that followers of the water cults might have a tough time making those cults relevant if the entire campaign takes place up in the highlands of Dragon Pass, away from the sea. Jeff tells how one of the players in his current game is an initiate of the local river god, who is great when the party is right near the river, which they almost never are in the adventures. But to Jeff it is important that not every character decision is equally good in all situations, that there are consequences. A situation without consequences might be hard ot get into, and may ultimately end up in a dead end for game play for most people.

Ludo asks how Jeff presents people coming from D&D with the roleplaying opportunities when they pick a less important minority cult (without attempting to introduce some artificial game balance). In Jeff’s opinion a lot of the minor cults have tremendous roleplaying opportunities, but that initiating to the Great Storm King with all his friends and being devoted to basically the cat god have different scope in affecting the game world. While playing a follower of Yinkin may not be as cosmologically significant as playing a hero of the Storm King, it can be as much fun, and most new players get that. There is an unfortunate tendency to conflate paths to potential power with roleplaying opportunities. While it is completely valid that some players seek a character on the path to power, it is just as fine to have players who want their characters just to chew scenery and have a great time without ever achieving some great power. Ludo talks about his experiences with players designing a character they wanted to play, totally unwilling to give that character any growth in terms of proficiency as that character already hit that sweet spot.

In Jeff’s experience, it is a fallacy to assume that all players playing the game want a certain thing X, and then to design the game so that all players achieve this thing, when the players demanding this thing X are just a vocal minority of the target audience. What Jeff likes about the Cults books as splatbooks is that each cult provides a different mix of possibilities. If players choose Humakt as their cult, they know that combat is a very important part of their character, and same for a Storm Bull cultist, but playing a follower of Donandar is going to be a very different perspective, with combat still going to be an important part of the experience of that character, but not something their cult is going to be a great help with. Playing RuneQuest with other humans doesn’t have to provide that computer-game-like balance. Entering the game with a scribe who has nothing in the way of combat skills is an option in an open setting, even though it may place a tough task on the GM who has to provide situations for the characters to play their characters. RuneQuest is what you make of it.

The advice to play is to pick a location, the core theme of the campaign and its context. The players learn about the important gods of the place and find the one that clicks, that speaks to the player. Now if a player insists on playing an Engizi worshiper, the GM should tell the player that the setting is up in the mountains, away from the river valley, and it is fine if the player then decides to select a cult that has a little more heft in that environment, but many players will be cool with having much of that cult identity exerting less of an impact to their game.

Ludo observes that the Cults Books often mention places outside of the area described in the core rules, and asks what was the design decision behind opening more of the world of Glorantha through these sometimes cryptic references. Jeff explains how Greg Stafford was always dissatisfied with how the old RQ3 Gods of Glorantha book had been put away, with the assumption that you would have these cults from the whole world in one place, and that you could play any cult you want from that list, but that all the places offered to the GM to interact with the world were set in the valley of the River of Cradles, or briefly in Dorastor.

For RQG they kind of flipped that, providing information mainly for central Genertela, which includes Dragon Pass, Prax, the Holy Country, and the Lunar Empire and the Elder Wilds, which is where Jeff estimates 99.5% of all the games set in Glorantha played over history have been set. While Jeff has played quite a few games outside of that area, and a couple of quite vocal people have done so as well, the other games might be little more than a rounding error. Ludo expects a flood of letters aiming to prove Jeff wrong. Jeff would go on to locate about half of all games ever played in the River of Cradles area (and Prax), and the other half in Dragon Pass. That’s where most of the audience is.

On the other hand, Jeff wanted to provide the wider world and the larger picture, which is why for instance Pamalt is included. His cult gives an impression how Genertela might have turned out had Genert survived the Gods War. Presenting Pamalt’s tribal pantheon also gives a different way how you can arrange these cults and their interactions. That doesn’t mean that Jeff expects many people to play Pamalt initiates in Dragon Pass or Prax, but players being players, it is almost bound to happen. But if you want to, you now have the building blocks.

Jörg points out that the description of Argrath’s companions (in the Glorantha Sourcebook) laid the little cuckoo’s egg with his companions from the Circumnavigation of the Homeward Sea (following Harrek’s Wolf Pirates). Jeff agrees that with the Hero Wars coming, we always have an excuse to include characters with exotic backgrounds, possibly characters that would have rejected when playing with the original rules of the Hero Wars rpg (that later turned into HeroQuest, now into Questworlds). But now, if a player’s heart is set on playing a Pamalt initiate? There are boats, the character could have arrived with the Wolf Pirates or on board of a merchant vessel.

Ludo asks how much the cults have evolved over the decades until they were published now. Jeff could approach this from a fan point of view, but chooses to look at it from the writer’s perspective he shared with Greg.

Orlanth (or rather the Storm King) first showed up in Greg’s stories in the sixties as Humat or Humakt or Humath, the great storm god, and he started writing stories about it. The name Orlanth doesn’t even appear until the year 1977 (a year before the publication of RQ1, two years after the publication of White Bear and Red Moon). Using the setting of White Bear and Red Moon for playtesting RuneQuest, Greg’s players wanted a god, and he said ok, we have one of the gods who is a war god, Humakt. And the god turned into a deity of war and death in the course of the game, so Greg realized he needed a new name as this wasn’t even close to the Storm God that he envisioned behind the Kingdom of Sartar. That new name became Orlanth.

Initially for RQ2 Greg had the Lightbringers story quickly, and then he wrote a ton of cool material about the Orlanth cult, its history, etc. The Orlanth Adventurous write-up was one of the three original cult examples in RuneQuest. Greg kept writing such material, but due to the nature of the Chaosium Greg lost a lot of that material in the early 1990ies, and it remained AWOL until about 2015.

After Chaosium had licensed RuneQuest to Avalon Hill, basically it became a money loser every time Greg wrote new material for the game, as unlike earlier he would only receive the royalties from the new material, with Avalon Hill earning the lion’s share of the new product. Greg was one of the best writers in the Chaosium team, and they would not earn very much by writing for RuneQuest any more.

So Greg turned towards writing a story about  what he really cared about, which turned out to be one of the most interesting characters in the setting, Arkat, but at a certain point this turned into a story about Harmast, so Greg wrote about Harmast’s Lightbringer’s Quest, and then it became a story about the initiation of Harmast. Now all of this is set in the First Age of Glorantha rather than the Now of RuneQuest in the Third Age, with Greg’s focus on the early histora of the setting before the Gbaji Wars, before Arkat, before Harmast’s Lightbringer’s Quest, and even more before the God Learners, the EWF or the Lunar Empire. The subsequent publications by Greg were Glorious ReAscent of Yelm set 230 years after the Dawn, The Fortunate Succession tracking the Dara Happan dynasties from the God Time into the Modern Age, Entekosiad with stories set in God Time, etc.

Throughout this period Greg wasn’t really writing anything for a game product, but then you had Hero Wars coming out and people wanted to write material, so Greg gave them what he was working on at the time and people tried to make it relevant for the now of the gaming time, pulling stuff a millennium or more into the future of the setting.

By the time Jeff started working on the Guide, he and Greg wanted the Guide to be set in the gameable now, even when it was looking back on the history of the setting or a region in the setting. Around that time Greg re-gained much of his older writings. Subsequently, Greg regained control over Chaosium with the aid of Moon Design. When work on the new edition of RuneQuest started, the focus was to be on the now as it had been in the seventies and eighties.

Back to Ludo’s question: The Orlanth cult actually got a heavy rewrite compared to its earliest appearances, as did the Ernalda cult which got a lot of input from Claudia Loroff (Jeff’s wife, and our guest for episode 16 of this podcast) and Skylar Mannen (credited for editing and proofreading in the Cults books). Thinking about what changed, Jeff mentions the Ernalda spell list, the context for Maran Gor and Babeester Gor who did not have any full cult write-up beyond the skeleton info in RQ3 Gods of Glorantha (although Maran Gor got a write-up in Tales of the Reaching Moon #6), or Orlanth receiving a lot of work about how the Orlanth Rex subcult works within Orlanth. A lot of world building derives from that.

The Sartar Book which has all the editing and the art done is due to go into Layout as soon as it fits into Simeon Cogwell’s schedule. All this new material about Orlanth, Ernalda and their associates ties into the work that has been done on the Sartar Book. The Cults books provide a framework, and Jeff can now show how this cults works within a specific homeland through the homeland books.

So the cults in both the Lightbringers and the Earth Goddesses volume required quite a bit of rewrite, although not all – Humakt did not change much, for instance. Ludo asks about cults changing not just in their descriptive text but also in their role in the cosmology and their look and feel. And in many cases there wasn’t much in the way of cult write-ups to start with at all. Jeff claims that this was the first time that the Ernalda cult really was written, claiming his take on it in the HQ2 Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes as a first draft. (Jörg’s pedantry demands that the Ernalda long cult write-up in the RQ3 DeLuxe box Glorantha booklet receives a mention, but that book did not really invite anybody to create a roleplaying character from that cult.) What is new is a shift in thinking about what is the role of the Earth Mother, the goddess of women and Fertility, letting this run wild.

Ludo mentions some of the ancient symbolism used in the cult descriptions and depictions, like the snakes that accompany the earth goddesses. The snakes stand for healing and rebirth, connected to their shedding of the skin, leading to the Caduceus, whereas in modern thinking snakes got bedevilled and associated with venom and getting bit, the dragon aspect. Jeff says he put these things there for people to run wild with this. In the the Southwest of (the United States of) America where he lives, snakes are an important symbol. Jeff mentions a recent experience on a walk shared with Suzanne Stafford and his son Finn during a visit to the Lindenmeier archaeological site which has one of the oldest archaeological records of the proto-Indians, and it has a bison herd. A rattle-snake crossed their path, and rattle-snakes are a powerful image, as it also is in the Meso-American mythology. For some people this is great, this is not the Marvel version of Thor. Other people may ignore such symbolism, and either way is fine with Jeff.

Ludo explains how his exposure to Glorantha made him get up to date with Meso-American and Vedic Indian symbology and other ancient sources, but he wonders what would be the most surprising inspiration that was used for the cults, stuff like the native American clown societies which made their way into the Cult of Eurmal.

Jeff explains that with almost all Gloranthan deities it is a combination on drawing on various real-world parallels but then also just personal inspirations and experiences. One thing that came as a surprise to Jeff was how strong the Orlanth and Shiva connections turned out to be. Orlanth is a Destroyer, but his destruction makes the world possible, which makes him both a destroyer and a preserver. That gives Orlanth a nice distance from say a Viking god.

Jeff recalls that there were some Meso-American stories they drew on for Ernalda, in part because Greg was really heavily influenced by Meso-American mythology. When Greg died, he was working on a (non-fiction) book on Tehuacan mythology, based on his research during his stay in Mexico. Other influences include Hindu mythology, but one rather impactful experience on Jeff was a visit to an exhibition at the ethnographical museum in Dahlem, Berlin, about the cult of Heracles. The iconography of Heracles moved around the (Old) world, spreading from Roman Britain and the Pillars of Heracles at Gibraltar all the way to being the guardian of Japanese Buddhist temples in the name Nio.

One of the places which registered as most Gloranthan with Jeff was Gandahara in the second century BC to the first century AD, a place which has a mythic synthesis of Buddhism, Vedic imagery and Greek and Persian mythology. This also has the advantage of being a period which has some massive sculpture and surviving artwork giving us something we can actually look at. For Jeff, Gloranthan iconography works similarly, with names and images of deities migrating across the setting. In Glorantha we always start with the underlying proposition that the deity or the spirit is real, whereas in our real world we always assume that the deities depicted are more societal constructs than actual entities (unless one may be considered a religious nut). That perspective lets you end up with a very different feel and understanding if you come from the underlying assumption that these Gloranthan deities are real.

Ludo talks about how Jeff’s posts on Facebook often describe that Gloranthan cults aren’t static within its history, how certain groups may have different cultures with different understanding of archetypal entities until they come together and realize that this deity is Orlanth, or that there is cultural and technological development like people starting to ride horses or horse-drawn chariots. This results in cultural, religious, technological and social developments happening to the various groups in Glorantha. In Jeff’s opinion, such a non-static behaviour is also necessary to make the setting believable. For instance the Lightbringers’ Quest in the Orlanth cult and its history within Time shows this tension about what is Orlanth – on one hand this heroic adventurer god who runs around, kills dragons, fights giants, or is he this atmospheric god responsible for natural phenomena. As a result the cult has now two big aspects that are both acknowledged, but they are slightly in tension with each other. To Jeff this is more believable than saying “sixteen hundred years ago, before the player characters could do anything, we have the Dawn, and it has all been set in stone since then.” Having this tension creates the sense that the setting is dynamic and that even the understandings of the deities are dynamic, making it easier to believe in the reality of the setting. Jeff points out that he is giving the perspective of a writer here.

Thinking about which of the Cults books got the most new writing, the Lunar book has almost completely new material, and even the Solar book had surprisingly little material previously defined.

Jeff mentions the endless debates on Yelmalio, Elmal, Kargzant, etc., and Jeff has the old marked-up manuscripts from Greg where it says all Yelmalio, and then hand-written corrections “let’s call him Elmal here”, or “Yelmalio is the chief god of the nomads”, or “hey, let’s give him a nomadic name: Kargzant.” Having this access makes Jeff look at the material from a different perspective. Jeff recalls a conversation a few years back about the Mesopotamian scribes identifying hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gods, when in reality they had about forty deities which had a cult. But if you wanted to have a big list, you would give a recognizable god say twenty different names, resulting in a list of maybe 500 names when there are about forty distinct identities. The same thing is going on in Glorantha, there are about 100 or 120 divine entities of wide relevance around, and all sorts of minor and tiny ones. Greg would write lists of names. When it comes to the solar gods (who are worshipped by different names in many distinct cultures) it becomes clear that you have to cut through the list, let’s cut through the names. We all know that in the actual real world, the Romans did not really think that Greek Zeus was a totally different deity from Jupiter. They said “this is what the Greeks call Jupiter”. When you read Herodotus, he talks about the Egyptian gods, giving them the Greek names but pointing out that the Egyptians view these deities differently and address them differently, but it still is the same god. So, looking at the solar gods, there is a sun god, because there is a sun. So we have Yelm, and most people cannot even reach Yelm.  That’s why you have the Sun Disk, and then there is a god who pulls the sun disk across the sky. Jeff reminds Jörg of Christine Reich, the resident archaeologist of Jeff’s Berlin group (immortalized in the HeroQuest Glorantha rules), who gave a presentation at the German convention The Kraken about the solar gods of central Europe in the Bronze and Iron Age. The sun is one of the few things in the world that always follows a set pattern. It is a regular thing and doesn’t have a lot of stuff it can do on its own. Most cultures did not even view it as something which had a lot of agency. The sun is a great thing, it is in the sky, it brings life, but it is not going to do anything much beyond what it is doing. But it has got a horse or someone who is following that path, and that thing is a lot easier to approach. So you just have to go to Greg’s names for the sun gods, you got Yelm, and then you got Little Yelm, or Yelmalio. In the Solar book, Jeff had a lot of fun exploring that, but he is fairly sure that there will be vigorous small argument about it along the lines of “This is Awful!” or “I feel this has ruined this”. Jörg suggests that maybe Jeff might put out some of the faksimiles of Greg’s original manuscripts to document how this is not so much a recent development but how things were meant to work.

Jeff recalls the first draft of the Entekosiad, before Greg came up with the naming system of Pelanda, so there were stories about Lodril, Yelmalio, Yelm, etc. Jeff thinks that it is great that people get so passionate in these debates about those names, that shows how much people love this setting and love the game, but sometimes observing these debates just makes him go “guys…” Ludo repeats that nerds will be nerds, which Jeff rephrases as “It’s passionate fandom.” Ludo blames the internet, but Jörg speaks from experience when he says that people do it face to face as well.

Jeff tells about people telling him with a straight face that he got it wrong, that god X (usually it’s Elmal) has fire powers and fire spells and the cult write-up says so when there never was a published RuneQuest cult of Elmal. Jeff admits that he wrote something in a book (the HeroQuest 2nd edition book Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes), and he admits that he got it wrong at the time. The passion of some of the discussion about it can be interesting.

Jeff explains how Elmal came about: Greg was trying to figure out what the Orlanthi of the First Age thought the sun was right before they had the interaction with the Dara Happans. What would their stories have been, and the result of that was Elmal. The next step was to determine how it was that this perception of the Little Sun deity became Yelmalio, and there we were with all the stories about the Yelmalio cult in the Second Age (both in Griffin Mountain background notes and in the history in Troll Pak). Jeff then claims that if you had read everything in the (publication) history up to King of Sartar, it all was easy to put together. The problem happened when David Dunham came out with the King of Dragon Pass computer game, and Elmal was a popular cult in this, and you had these Elmal myths that David (and Robin Laws) wrote, and they are great, and great fun. All of that became people’s experience of Elmal, but people forgot that the entire premise of the King of Dragon Pass computer game was an alternate history of Glorantha where there was no Sartar coming to unite the Quivini tribes, and the task falls onto your clan instead. That game is set two to three centuries before the RuneQuest setting.

Untangling that came up when the question was should we have Elmal temples in Dragon Pass, and Greg said “No, they are all Yelmalio, that’s what I said in King of Sartar.”

One of the great things about Glorantha is that everybody has their own head-canon, but at times that causes a headache to Jeff. When Chaosium is publishing RuneQuest (or other Glorantha material), they need to keep the story lines for the publication straight, providing one definitive version of what the cult description is going to be, while on the other hand everybody’s Glorantha is going to vary. (Often from one game to the next with the same group of people.)

Jeff drops a surprise on Ludo and Jörg as we are coming to the end of the episode by offering us to do the old Glorantha lore auction, with three questions we can get answered with a canonical answer.

Expanding on the identity of deities, Jörg asks “If Tolat and Annilla are twins, who are their parents, and when are they born?”

Jeff leads by stating that while not all their myths claim that these two deities are twins, it is one of the most accepted genealogies for them. Both were born in the Underworld after Yelm died, so their parents are Yelm and the River Styx (listed as Edzaroun in the Prosopaedia). Yelm being so awesome that even dead he was able to produce offspring on Underworld deities. When you think of it, we got the Blue Moon goddess who is tied to the tides, but also the sky, because she goes up and down from the Underworld to the sky. When she moves up, the waters rise following her, and when she moves down they drop with her, so she has got to have some deep water connection.

The planetary deity Tolat also spends half his time in the Underworld, as the planet dies, but he is also a celestial entity that has this kind of screwed-up Underworld connection.

Now all good Dara Happans will tell you that Shargash is the son of Yelm and Dendara, who is also a planet.

From an in-Gloranthan perspective (rather than the external perspective of a writer), Plentonius (the in-world author of the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm) did such a good job explaining things in the first or second century of History that even where he was wrong, people find reasons to make him right. Plentonius basically hammered things down. The identification of Antirius (the Dara Happan name for the Little Sun) on the Gods Wall is such an example. There are a lot of identifications by Plentonius, you can poke holes in them (the Guide appendix has a Lhankor Mhy scholar’s commentary on the ancient text, too), but by god, he was such a good writer, and generations of scribes learning the written version of Firespeech have been trained on his text. With these countless copies of his text, the Dara Happan scribes are dedicated to preserving the Plentonius version of it.

Jörg likens this to the fallacious passage in Caesar’s De Bello Gallico where he repeats the information given to him that people capture sleeping moose by felling the trees they lean on since these beasts are lacking knees. Jeff counters this with Herodotus claiming that giant ant lions are the source of India’s gold.

Ludo asks what was Prince Snodal’s goal when he killed the local communication god.

Jeff replies that Snodal  (a Talar from Loskalm) and the Syndics had to destroy the God of the Silver Feet because if they could not find a way for Fronela to dissociate, the writing that Snodal had seen in Zzabur’s book or some other such document be a semi-divine people during his stay with the Altinae (on the northern edge of the World) claimed that Loskalm (in addition to vast other tracts of Fronela that mattered less to Snodal) was going to be destroyed. By killing the God of the Silver Feet they were going to bypass that prophecy, eliminating some of the stated prerequisites of that future event.

In essence, they had a horrible prophecy predicting a major catastrophe, and Prince Snodal and his buddies figured out a way to bypass it. Of course, now the Syndic’ Ban is ending, and you got the Kingdom of War appearing, so maybe this only temporarily bypassed the prophecy, or it just delayed it.

Jeff had recently re-visited the story of Snodal visiting the Altinae, and this was the way Snodal figured out to prevent the doom for Loskalm.

For the last question, Jörg picks up something that he saw recently discussed online, the matter of theist worship of the Malkioni, To what extent is the theist worship of deities convergent with their monotheist philosophy?

Jeff starts out by talking about the words and labels that send people down the wrong path.

Malkioni is a big cluster word, describing a religious group more broadly than almost any other such grouping in Glorantha, which is probably a mistake. The key thing that all Malkioni groups have in common is that the humans are at the centre of the universe, and that the world can be understood materially. The Malkioni say that they have a material view of the world that is superior to that of people sitting around offering plates of food and dead pigs to gods and spirits. From this materialist perspective results ways that people are able to influence the ways of the world through the use of what we call sorcery. But the problem with sorcery is that most people are never going to possess the time or resources or dedication to make much out of it.

In an ideal world (as a sorcerer) we would set up a system where everybody, the rest of society, the non-specialists, would provide us with massive pools of mana, for us to weave it into spells where we are able to do the things that are necessary for us to have a good harvest, to be protected from our enemies, for  hostile and malevolent things to be banished, and whatnot.

But even the purest wizards have (almost) never been able to produce a society that works entirely on that philosophical grounding. Unfortunately for the sorcerers, there is history, there are other peoples, and gods and spirits, they have always been there in the background, and it has often been easier and more cost efficient for us to set up some cult to that deity rather than to spend a huge amount of resources and focus to give the wizards the power to deal with it in a way they find philosophically appropriate.

In every Malkioni society you have the tension between the logical rationalism you have among the wizards, and all the rest of society.

Ludo chimes in that the farmers say “we have this ritual that allows us to offer a pig so we have rain without you wizards having to undertake a season long ritual to produce the same rain this deity gives just in exchange for this pig.”

And a lot of the people living in the Malkioni portion of the world have always worshipped the spirits and the earth goddess, and the most important Malkioni history of Time was Hrestol, and his big myth was that he went and killed the daughter of the local earth goddess, for which he got sent to the Underworld, and his father Froalar, the Talar of Seshnela, ended up having to marry the Earth goddess, and his son who was to inherit the kingdom was half serpent, so it was obvious that he was touched by the Earth goddess. All of this interaction with the deities has been there from the beginning.

So of course there is going to be in a lot of the Malkioni societies a lot of people who aren’t going to rely a hundred percent on the wizards, they are going to hedge their bets and they are going to set up shrines to spirits and to acceptable deities. They might call that acceptable deity something else.

The two Malkioni places that are really exceptional are both movements in the Third Age.

One is Rokarism, and Rokarism is a reaction to the destruction of Seshnela and all the other horrible calamities that the God Learners had. The Rokari movement states that we should follow the law, that we should really not make compromises that are philosophically and intellectually unjustified. People should not enslave themselves to deities and spirits. Only bad stuff happens from this.

Of course, again you have the problem that the vast majority of the common people weren’t part of this philosophical movement. There was an alliance between the wizards and the rulers to try and create a society that has a more rational basis. Rokarism is the faction of the realists. This is unfortunately the way the world is, but in the long run we will be able to create something that really is able to follow Malkion’s precepts or laws. Eventually, will basically have what was promised to humanity.

And then you have these New Hrestoli, who may actually be way whackier than the Rokari. The New Hrestoli got to take advantage from the fact that during the Syndics’ Ban there was no outside people. Loskalm basically was Gormenghast, removed from the rest of the world, surrounded by mist and with no contact by anyone else. This gave them the opportunity to cut top through bottom, to really impose a philosophically ideal society. And they managed to pull that off (at least as long as the Ban lasted).

One thing that an ideal philosophical society has is that humans don’t subjugate themselves to spirits or deities. They rely on wizards to manipulate such entities through logic. The New Hrestoli of Loskalm went further and probably were more successful than the Rokari in Seshnela, but everywhere else people had to make compromises with the real world. There were gods and there were spirits, and as Ludo said, the local farmers would sacrifice a pig to the grain goddess regardless whether it was philosophically correct or not.

Based on his experience living in Berlin, you kind of can make the analogy of the soviet system in Eastern Europe if you imagine Marxism/Leninism as a philosophical system that would get rid of capitalism and all these preexisting conditions and whatnot. But if you cut deep enough into any layer existing there, the preexisting society continued to exist despite declarations that it did not.

So to boil it down, we now have this cultic worship in Rokari lands. The Talars (the nobles) have an ever shorter list of what’s acceptable. The wizards would always say “there should not be a list! These are all exceptions!”

This is the stuff that emerges when you do your world-building from the bottom up, when you rthink about what would be the experience of the people actually living in that setting, what they would react to, as opposed to the top-down model where the wizards at the top dictate the exact way things are going to be resolved.

The nobles want to make ends meet economically too, so that’s why they want these fertility rites performed on their fields.

But at the same time, they need the wizards for legitimacy and support. Another possible parallel for this is the relation between the house of Saud and the Salafi movement in Saudi Arabia. Part of the reason behind the rise of the house of Saud was their alliance with a very strict and stripped-down view of Islam, in the eighteenth century. You need to do that, but on the other hand scholars and preachers don’t have to pay the bills, they don’t have to raise the armies. But on the other hand, the rulers need the scholars and preachers because they provide the ideological support for me being the top dog. So I need to keep them happy while still making enough money out of my peasants for still being able to hire an army. Jeff always figured that that’s where the rulers of Seshnela are. They got this very organized and cohesive group of wizards who are very numerous and really, really useful. And these wizards also say that I am going to be the top dog, that I get to make all the big decisions. They will support me as long as I support whatever it is that they are doing.

But on the other hand, between the nobles and the wizards there are the 98% who make up the rest of the population, and they aren’t really on board with any of this. I need to be able to hire full-time people to fight for me because, if it is wizards, maybe give them six months to cast that spell.- that’s not very useful here. It’s great when we have the time to do it, but I need something that is going to connect faster, my soldiers/warriors. And half of them, they worship war gods and martial spirits and whatnot, I am going to turn a blind eye to that because they are damn useful. And then I have the farmers and crafters, and if they don’t have a good harvest, I am screwed.

One of Jeff’s models for Seshnela in the Third Age is the Mughal Empire in India. There you have that top tier of society that are devout Sunni Muslims – they need to be, all the key power holders in the empire are Muslim, and you got to keep them happy. But they rule a population that is mainly not Muslim. Somehow that needs to work.

You can have various other examples. Jeff always tries to avoid the trap thinking about the Malkioni barely as something like medieval Christians. In Jeff’s opinion they don’t map all that well. To blame is an unfortunate use of titles Greg used in the eighties, and the parallels drawn to the Credo board game (about the Roman Empire Christianity that had been used as inspiration for the How the West Was One freeform).

So now Ludo has this image of medieval Arab scholars for the wizards.

With that we try to come to the end of this episode. Ludo mentions the eleventh book of the Cults series about the Invisible God, probably touching on this last topic, but that will be published at the (foreseeable) end of the Cults of RuneQuest series. In the mean while, Jeff expects the Dragon Pass background book to blow people’s minds.

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.

This new initiation episode features Matt, a school teacher who recently moved to Virginia and does the Lord of Chaos’ good work by introducing kids to roleplaying games.

Things we mention in this episode include:

The intro music is “Dancing Tiger” by Damscray. The outro music is “Islam Dream” by Serge Quadrado. Other audio is from the FreeSound library.

In this episode which we finally get around to talking about 13th Age Glorantha. Ludo and Jörg are joined by Becca of “Dames & Dice” fame on the Iconic Podcast, and by Evan Franke, of “Exploring Glorantha” fame.

As Ludo expounds on the history of Glorantha as a setting for games, Becca drops that she has the board game: a copy of the original White Bear and Red Moon, gifted to her at Christmas last year by her dad who did a lot of roleplaying in college along a couple of AD&D 1st edition books.

Ludo admonishes people to not just buy the 13th Age Glorantha book thinking of it as a full game as you need the 13th Age rules along with this book. (Ludo claims it has to be the full rules book, but it is possible to work out the rules from the SRD which is free from Pelgrane Press)

Becca outlines 13th Age: a fantasy D20 roleplaying game which feels somewhat similar to D&D 5th edition with a few exceptions (no skills, backgrounds, the idea of failing forward) and being a lot more heroic in scope than your usual start into a D20 game.

Ludo quotes descriptions of 13th Age as a mix of D&D 3.5 and D&D 4th edition, usually in reflection of its authors’ involvement in those two iterations of D&D.

Ludo comments on the tone of the writing in the 13th Age rules book, and on the emphasis on the player characters being the heroes (and movers and shakers) in the world rather than just another bunch of schmucks.

Becca agrees that beginning characters are a lot more powerful than in D100 games or like roughly a 5th level character in D&D 5th edition.

One thing to put your character on the hero’s path is your Iconic Relationship, a connection to one of the 13 Icons in 13th Age. (The number 13 comes up a lot…)

There are 13 Icons to the world, great beings who can influence your character and how that character is made.

Jörg asks what an Icon is: a god, a demigod? Becca gives a few examples, like the Emperor (of the Dragon Empire) who has a lot of resources and followers behind him, the Great Druid who lives in the woods with an agenda to let nature take down civilization, the Diabolist, the Crusader, the Orc Lord, etc.

In Gloranthan terms, these would be people like the Red Emperor (a reincarnating demigod) or Zzabur (immortal sorcerer supreme). Ludo points out that while these Icons may have agendas antagonistic to one’s own personal or cultural agendas, there are no outright good or evil individuals among these Icons.

Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet went into the rulebook saying “It is your world, nothing has to work in it like it does in our world.” That means that the Emperor might really care about running the Dragon Empire down to the details, or he might just use his position as highest authority in the Empire to acquire some certain personal goal or object of power. Likewise the Orc Lord may seem like a terrible person leaving a trail raiding and pillaging behind him, or he could be a liberator for all the monsters in the Empire suppressed by human (elf, dwarf, …) supremacy. Which sounds a lot like Prince Argrath to Jörg.

Ludo points out the conversational style of the rulebook, with little jokes, designers’ notes (at times contradicting one another),

In 13th Age, each character has one distinctive feature that sets them apart from all the rest of the people in the world. It may be something big and major from the onset, or it might start as something simple and small but possibly growing as your character acquires levels and more powers.

Becca tells us about her and Evan’s characters in the Iconic Production playtest actual play game. Becca’s character was the last heir to the Ringsome Dukedom, a formerly lovely place now swallowed by a Hellhole. Evan has something that can either destroy the Lich King (one of the 13 icons) or restore the Lich King to its former glory, the wizard king. Evan describes this as his gift to the GM to shape the campaign, not as an in-game benefit to the character but as a campaign hook for the unfolding story of the characters.

Jörg concludes that this concept might be translated to Glorantha as something like “I am Arkat Reborn” (although Evan points out that that claim is actually not that unique as there will be five Arkats in the foreseeable course of the Hero Wars at the same time).

Ludo asks how that collection of Unique Things for each player character works out in practice for the GM who has to balance these rather different personal spotlights in the course of the campaign, but Becca points out that these reduce the number of Icons the GM has to keep track of for that campaign, with Becca’s heiress having a negative relation to the Diabolist (as source of that Hell Hole), and Evan’s character having (to build) a relation to the Lich King and his activities.

Becca describes Evan’s One Unique Thing as more of an end of campaign (arc) item when the decision which way to go is made while her own theme of dealing with the Hell Hole might be more mid-campaign,

Jörg asks how these rather specific directions of such a campaign align with pre-written adventures for 13th Age. Becca describes how 13th Age adventures too are written in a conversational tone, asking the prospective GM about the main Icons and giving some ideas how each of the Icons might influence this specific adventure, giving 3 or four ideas for each Icon.

Becca quotes some of her own writing for Pelgrane Press for the to be released in a near future, “Behemoths: Path of the Koru”. In her contribution, Becca outlines how the impending death of the Behemoths will affect the Dragon Empire and the future of the setting, providing advice for each Icon how they are involved and what their interest in this event may be.

Ludo points out a narrative mechanism where the players roll on their Icon relations and giving the GM a roll for the Icon which is going to be involved in the next leg of the game, providing another narrative clue to the GM about the direction this play-through of the scenario/campaign is going to take.

Becca gives a practical example how to spend a relationship point to the Icon in a situation where the player characters are stuck, invoking a narrative reason to apply said relationship. And also how a creative GM can take this approach to insert another complication to the lives of the characters.

Ludo rambles about how a gritty D20 game has such narrative mechanics, and Jörg feels reminded of how Fate Points are used in Fate.

While Ludo is in the spirit of raiding 13th Age for other games, he points out a mechanic that might not even be in the core rules, the Montage technique, allowing you to go through “half the dungeon” in just about 15 minutes.

The GM challenges the players asking one of them to come up with a problem they encounter on their way into the story, and the person next to you will solve it, going through all the players to create a shared idea about the story so fat. Unless it is a big ask, you don’t typically spend spell slots or similarly limited resources on these but just solve these narratively.

When designing their rules, Jonathan and Rob observed that in many games there was a danger of getting stuck in a station of a scenario if nobody rolled well enough. In order to keep the narrative going, the player attempting e.g. to pick a lock still fails their roll, but the GM still allows the door to open, but introduces a complication. The door opens, and behind it there have gathered a bunch of armed and angry orcs…

Ludo talks about how old-school investigative games (or scenarios) may get stuck by the players (and/or their characters) failing to find or to get the clues, where some more recent games like Robin Laws’ Gumshoe (also published by Pelgrane Press) have the philosophy that the players automatically get the relevant clues but modifying the narrative (and possibly the sense of personal achievement).

The Escalation Die in 13th Age is meant to reflect how the momentum in a fight builds up as it progresses. In the first round of the combat, the Escalation die is not used, but in the following round it is turned to show a 1, resulting in the player characters’ attacks gaining plus 1 on their D20 roll (where rolling high is good), giving +2 the next round, maxing out at +6. This helps speed up combat by reducing the chance of the big heroes missing all their rolls in combat. Normally this applies only to attack rolls, unless a character has a special ability allowing the use of the Escalation Die. Equally, normal monsters don’t benefit from the Escalation Die unless they are special monsters like dragons, who do. There might also be special circumstances where the GM may deny the Escalation Die to the player characters, like subjecting them to a fear power, making monsters scarier or forcing players to approach a fight more tactically than just dicing out attack rolls.

The Escalation Die may also be used as a timing device for the GM to trigger an additional event, helping to build more dynamism into a scene.

Porting this over into other game systems as a cumulative attack bonus could easily be done, e.g. a cumulative 10% bonus. Whether this makes a good timer when ported to say RQG is another question.

Which makes player “death” rather predictable once you have suffered a few hits, especially since you don’t get to do anything actively to block damage, as Jörg observed in a game he sat in.

Evan points out that the player characters have always the option to run away from an opponent (unlike RQG which penalizes such retreats), and also that player characters have a go at a heroic return, a game mechanic familiar to players of the WBRM/Dragon Pass board game and repurposed to simulate the “backdoor from Hell” heroquesting reward that seems to have been one common heroquesting bonus in the Stafford house campaign.

Missed rolls by player characters still deal some minimum damage.

There is a whole chapter of advice on building battles and staging opposition.

When Jörg asks about how non-combat specialists fare in battle, we learn that with very few exceptions all classes will have combat or at least combat-supporting abilities. There is no idea how to model a pacifist Chalana Arroy healer as a 13th Age Glorantha class yet, though.

Next, we move on to 13th Age Glorantha specifically.

When translating Glorantha into a sandboxy framework for fighting monsters, the designers opted to go with Chaos as the existential threat that needs to be dealt with rather than politicking or intrigue.

Chaos Rises! is the framework for 13th Age Glorantha. While the Kickstarter for 13th Age Glorantha also financed the publication of the (system-less) Glorantha Sourcebook which provides the background for the upcoming Hero Wars, the main premise of 13G is that the world is breaking as Chaos rises. You need to pull together desperate player characters to prevent the world from falling apart as a separate thread from the geopolitical conflict between the resurging Kingdom of Sartar and the Lunar Empire. While that conflict spawns some of this, there are other places where Chaos rears its ugly head, like the scorpionfolk queen Gagix Twobarb down south in Larnste’s Footprint or chaos monsters boiling out of Snake Pipe Hollow and other notorious dens of Chaos. In keeping with the general design philosophy of 13th Age this is not an absolute requirement, the basic idea is that heroes set out to patch the world together so that there is a stage for the Hero Wars to happen at all.

Given Evan’s credits as a big Glorantha expert (Ludo said nerd, but…), Ludo asks whether Evan’s games feature elements and protagonists of the official Hero Wars prophecies, or whether he just lets loose fighting Chaos. Evan tells of two different paths he has taken, one GMing published introductory scenarios for newcomers to both Glorantha and 13th Age, such as The Next Valley Over where something chaotic destroyed your neighbouring community and you have to figure out what it is, or The Horn of Snake Pipe Hollow which is from the 13th Age Glorantha rulebook itself.

Evan then mentions his “little side project” Red Moon and Warring Kingdoms which is set in Fronela, far away from Dragon Pass and exploring playing 13th Age Glorantha with Lunar characters (although not from the Lunar Empire). Parallel to Chaos Rising, there is the problem of the Kingdom of War in Fronela, distracting from the (Sartar and Lunar Empire focus on the) Hero Wars. For Evan, this is also a return to the spirit of adventuring in RQ2 in distant areas like Balazar where the local adventures and dangers make up your experience of Glorantha, a sandbox of dungeons as Ludo puts it.

Ludo points out that even the description of the setting in 13th Age Glorantha is not by region, but by rune, providing Chaos places like Snake Pipe Hollow or Larnste’s Print, Disorder places like the Big Rubble and the Rockwood Mountains, Dragonewt places, Earth strongholds etc. Not so much a cohesive whole but locations to pick and insert into your campaign regardless of geography.

Ludo refers to a map pointed out to him by our listener Uzz, a map of Dragon Pass and Prax without any labels at all, leaving this up to the GM and the campaign to develop or to randomly re-interpret.

Evan elaborates that in standard 13th Age the Icons are important movers and shakers in the world, and that the authors could have ported that into the world of 13th Age Glorantha framing Jar-eel, the Red Emperor, Argrath etc. as Icons. Rather than these transitory characters, you have a relationship with several runes that dominate your life and personality. We see something like that in RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha, but in 13th Age Glorantha this is limited to a set of three runes, one of which (at least) should be connected to your deity and cult.

This extends to framing the scenes by rolling which rune will be influencing the upcoming scene. Ludo admits that he had to re-read the “Narrating the Runes” chapter a number of times to get an idea how to make that work.

Similar to the Icon relationships in 13th Age, a character’s relationship to three of the runes can be positive, neutral or negative/conflicting. Rather than the augmenting role you get from Runic inspiration in RuneQuest Glorantha, in 13th Age Glorantha the runes allow the player to frame the scene from a story-telling or atmospheric approach.

Ludo describes how RQG might force a player to spend a rune point for such atmospheric enhancement of a scene when all they wanted was to look cool when taking the narrative spotlight, something more easily achieved in HeroQuest Glorantha/Questworlds, and in 13th Age Glorantha.

13th Age character classes start with a short blurb about what the role of members of this character class is in the world.

We start with the Trickster class, which is a unique approach and definitely not for everyone. The core idea is a role for a heroic Trickster. Evan describes his experience playing such a trickster as the rest of the party playing in Beowulf or the Iliad while the Trickster was playing in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Everything the Trickster does serves to make the other characters look and act more heroic while causing pain and danger to the Trickster. These powers include to “take possession” of a fumble rolled by another player, applying that to the next roll done by the Trickster, or to cause critical success for another player by taking on a ridiculous disadvantage for the Trickster.

Evan describes a scene where his actions as a Trickster enable the party Humakti to make use of an ability that the initial miss on his attack would otherwise have wasted, resulting in the comic relief granting the Humakti their great moment.

Speaking of comic relief, Jörg asks whether you can play a duck in 13th Age Glorantha. This brings us to cultural backgrounds and races, of which there are several human cultures with different advantages and disadvantages in the book, plus Dark Trolls and Ducks. Ducks get one of two powers – the grim death-wielding power or the wacky comic-relief power. Evan mentions that his upcoming opus will contain not just human followers of the Lunar Way and other Fronelan cultures, but also Mostali, Aldryami and Waertagi as ancestral backgrounds.

Ludo suggests that all the class-based powers in 13th Age Glorantha are good ideas to be used as Heroquesting boons or abilities. There is also a chapter on heroquest gifts by runes in 13th Age Glorantha.

Ludo describes how especially the Earth Priestess and the Hellmother have entire hosts of spirits they can summon repeatedly in different combats, unlike the very restricted rune power economy in a game of RQG.

This leads to a more heroic style of Glorantha, perhaps the anime version of Glorantha (rather the Saturday morning cartoon version, to allow some adult content). While RuneQuest does offer a toolkit with which you can ultimately construct such effects, with the 13th Age Glorantha powers you simply get to use these in play without fine-tuning and developing your character in that direction. Jörg points towards the RQ2 Runemasters supplement where each of the sample rune masters had zoos of spirits enabling them to overcome some of these limitations, but Ludo feels that with new limitations like the RQG Charisma cap for spirits controlled by a character the RuneQuest resource economy remains more stingy.

After all this talk about how 13th Age compares to RuneQuest, Jörg asks about how the experience compares to playing HeroQuest Glorantha/Questworlds. Evan refers to his experience of playing with Ian Cooper at Chaosium Con. 13th Age Glorantha is a lot crunchier than Questworlds, with classes, powers etc. providing rather strict definition what can be done. Where 13th Age Glorantha is about fighting monsters in Glorantha in the course of the narrative, Questworlds with its single roll resolution mechanic is a game of telling a story, having a rich narrative experience in engaging with the world followed through with a very simple resolution mechanic.

Ludo chimes in that both 13th Age Glorantha and Questworlds have in common a more magical Glorantha as opposed to the more mundane Glorantha that can be modelled by RuneQuest. (Ludo actually suggested “boring” rather than mundane, and claims it would be nice to get some angry emails for a change.)

Putting his finger again into the continued absence of official rules for Heroquesting in RuneQuest, Ludo asks about the 13th Age implementation of Heroquesting.

Where an F20 game can be described as Dungeon Crawling, Jonathan Tweet and Rob Heinsoo described heroquesting as Myth Crawling, visiting various stations of the quest like stations in a dungeon. Evan describes the Lightbringers Quest where the Westfaring (to the Gates of Dusk) is a Wilderness adventure that gets you to the Dungeon, the descent into Hell, with various stations like the underworld palace of the Only Old One, getting thrown into the dungeons there, getting revived, descending even further to Yelm’s Court where there are tests to be overcome, and finally facing the Boss Monster, the Devil sent into Hell, in order to revive the world.

All of this can be put together like a dungeon adventure with stations like rooms. And the experimental heroquesting introduced by Arkat and exploited by the God Learners is that in certain rooms you have secret passages, leading to other parts of the dungeon or possibly into completely different dungeons. This analogy works very well to structure a heroquest.

Evan also talks about Jacquaying a dungeon, referring to Jennel Jacquays’ (of Griffin Mountain fame) seminal work in the early F20 space that there are different ways to get to different parts of the dungeon.

When asked about her experiences with Heroquesting (in RuneQuest), Becca confesses that it felt terrifying in the stakes. Her second experience resulted in her character being taken over by the Chaos entity with many bodies, returning to her tribe and eating them one by one.

The stakes were what terrified Becca. To her, a GM presenting the world right means that everything is important or consequential – who you get married to, who you sell your llamas to, who you make an alliance with, all those creates rather high stakes. Doing a heroquest on top of that, say you need to re-seal a box or your entire clan might be erased from the face of the world, increases those stakes to an existential level. The timelessness of Godtime means if you mess up there, it will always have been messed up. Jörg compares that to the time-traveller’s paradox problem.

Returning to 13th Age Glorantha, Ludo talks about the suggested heroquest gifts to be given to the characters. Jörg asks whether these are designed to fit into the character advancement options, but they are tied to runes, and essentially replace the distribution of magical items in standard 13th Age. These gifts are tied to a rune that is part of your character, the gifts have different categories such as combat boosts or defensive or special powers, and they can be levelled up from adventurer tier through champion tier to epic tier, giving both a mechanical bonus and some special narrative ability.

Ludo gives special mention to the fact that you might pick up Chaos gifts on heroquests, which come with a hilarious description. While there are some gifts that resemble rune spells in RuneQuest (making it Gloranthan to long-time fans), others are quite original.

Ludo gives a shout-out to the artwork in 13th Age Glorantha.

Evan’s take-away from 13th Age Glorantha is its approach to monster design. The good thing about RQG (as well as D&D fifth edition) is that everything works the same (mechanically), and the bad thing about it is that everything works the same. The monsters have the same stats as the player characters and use the same spells as the characters, making them really complicated to run for a GM who has also to provide the ongoing narrative. This approach culminates in the mook rules for less consequential opponents. While Jörg throws in that in his experience of running RuneQuest he cannot remember when he last used fully stat’ed opponents outside of material for publication, Ludo shares that that is one of the most work-intensive and least pleasurable parts of preparing a publication for RuneQuest.

When asked about converting between 13th Age Glorantha and RuneQuest Roleplaying in Glorantha, Evan has ideas about converting e.g. Griffin Mountain to 13th Age when not working on his grand Fronelan opus.

Ludo gives a shout-out to the lists of enemies in the rules which is almost a graded set of encounters, with e.g. a broo shaman rather than a standard broo, or a maimed ghoul if the encounter needs to be toned down.

Becca talks about the ease of using elements from other 13th Age supplements for 13th Age Glorantha, and also in the other directions like e.g. scorpion men with their extra abilities that may be surprising in other F20 environments.

Becca points out how 13th Age Glorantha has everything (Gloranthan) in a single book, much like the Core 13th Age rulebook has everything you need to run the game.

Evan talks about the 13th Age SRD (System Reference Document) that has its own interactive website and complements the missing rules parts in the 13th Age Glorantha book, allowing you to make sense of the mechanical bits even without the full 13th Age rules set.

Still, Evan advocates getting lots of 13th Age stuff as it is very beautiful and evocative.

Looking at her collection, Becca suggests that she could stop buying stuff, but she just doesn’t want to. While there are multiple add-ons and campaigns which field their own monsters (or those from some of the additional bestiaries), the core book contains enough to get a game off the ground. There is a second edition of the core rules under development (currently being playtested), but backward compatibility or compatibility with 13th Age Glorantha will be good.

Becca’s dulcet tones can be heard on Iconic Production Podcast, she is on the Iconic Production wordpress website, as well as on Youtube and Twitch, Twitter (nowadays X) and Instagram. Only genuine with the dragon icon:

Evan too can be found on various Iconic Production things, the back catalogue of actual plays, including at least one run by Evan, a 13th Age Glorantha game called Rising Moon Rescue, and you will see Evan again on Exploring Glorantha, which is currently in hiatus due to health issues for J-M. Thankfully J-M is on the road to recovery, and Evan gives his and Iconic Podcast’s appreciation for the outpouring of support for J-M and his family. Exploring Glorantha will be tackling Cults of RuneQuest in the next number of shows once they return to the regular schedule.

Ludo takes the opportunity to hoot his own horn about his own too publications on the Jonstown Compendium, A Short Detour and Bog Struggles, as well as a future publication on amnesiac Telmori werewolves and hopefully his “Goonies in Glorantha” campaign featuring children as player characters.

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.

Our guest for this episode is Austin Conrad, who last graced our podcast in episode 2, On the Road. Austin is the author of many things on the Jonstown Compendium, generally publishing under the “Akhelas” brand, while he is known as “Crel” on BRP Central, Discord, and social media.

Austin is a contender for the most productive publisher on the Jonstown Compendium with his 24 issue Myth of the Month series that ran for the first two years of the Jonstown Compendium, culminating in the sizeable scenario booklet To Hunt A God.

Akhelas is the name of the setting Austin started writing in 2016 before the Jonstown Compendium even existed, and before he was even involved in Glorantha. The setting is inspired by Homeric epics and the tales of Herodotus, and especially Thucydides and the conflicts of city states.

The cosmology of Akhelas derives heavily from Platon’s Timeas, and the setting is kind of on the edge between Bronze Age and Classic Age. Little wonder Austin “took to Glorantha like a duck to water”.

When Austin is going to start publishing this animist city-state Bronze Age warfare stuff, he expects people to point to Glorantha as a parallel. Great minds…

Austin expects to self-publish his first novel maybe later this year, more likely next year.

Ludo mentions that Shawn and Peggy Carpenter have returned their publication Valley of Plenty, with new material added: extra detail, new cults, extra adventures. Like Austin, Shawn has announced a novel for next year.

According to Austin, To Hunt A God is a heroquest where your adventurers do the thing it says in the title.

Before we conclude this episode with this definitive statement, Austin expresses his sense of accomplishment after getting this book into print on demand. He urges everybody to sit down and publish their stuff in the community content program. More stuff is great, and sitting down with your own book is a spectacular experience. Getting it print-ready took Austin about a week of work and then six weeks of waiting.

To Hunt A God contains a new cult for players, Hrunda. Austin had the goal to provide a player cult that people would want to belong to. Another major section of the book is a temple site dedicated to Hrunda and a number of associate beast totem cults with their human and animal worshippers.

The second half of the book contains the adventure. It sets off with a religious festival attended by the player characters. We discuss the location of the temple and the Old Woods in relation to Esrolia (west of the Skyreach range, north of Longsiland, the easternmost outreach of the Arstola forest).

Austin calls out both similarities and differences with the Wild Temple in Beast Valley. The temple in the Old Woods is more modest in extent, concentrating all its important holy places in a small area.

Austin explains that the adventure originated from his RuneQuest Glorantha campaign situated in the city of Sylthi in Esrolia. We talk a bit about how this piece of Arstola is different from the rest of the forest, and where to find information.

Austin admits that he still needs to catch up listening to our podcast. Ludo is not sure he has his priorities straight.

Ludo elaborates on how cults are the defining difference between RuneQuest Glorantha and other fantasy games and settings, and how sooner or later every group or GM will leave the canonical selection of cults behind for their own special thing. Even with the upcoming publication of the Cults of RuneQuest books (“more cults than you need”) you will sooner or later find your own niche cult. Jörg points out that already the third adventure in the Colymar Adventure book gives the player characters a choice about how the deity of the backstory will turn out, showing the official endorsement of this practice. Ludo counters with the Quickstart adventure which will lead to some new cult activity if the players go for mostly non-violent solutions.

Austin confesses that he is a great fan of making up cults. GMs as well as player tend to buy in to their game by adding a personal touch. In mainstream D20 games people make their own character class. In RuneQuest set in Glorantha these are the cults. Austin talks about numerous cults and deities that he wrote up for his Esrolia game. Ludo teases that people might understand this as a backlog of upcoming books, but Austin quickly denies anything within calling distance. There was a reason he needed 18 months to finish To Hunt A God after having hit a hard start into 2022, and re-entering a project with a thousand pages of notes after such a break won’t produce results quickly. Austin compares his creative process to that guy who has a disassembled car project in the garage he religiously visits, only to drink a beer or two rather than put in some effort.

Austin also explains how him turning to a full time writing job means that people need to buy his books if they want the Esrolia project to proceed, as there will be fewer commissions outside of his Glorantha writing.

The Red Book of Magic is the collection of all the Rune Spells and special Spirit Spells from the Cults Books (at least at the time of its publication back in 2020, when we naively thought that the Cults Books would be just around the corner). Because of the delay of the less typical cult write-ups, Austin states that a spell without a known cult has no obvious way to use it in your game: a collection of toys without giving you the instructions how to use them.

One spell that caught Austin’s attention (and affection) was Proteus, a spell that allows the caster to change their shape into a shape that they have devoured earlier. While owners of RQ3 Gods of Glorantha would be able to find that this is a Triolina spell, people without this long out-of-print supplement have no way to associate that spell with a cult or to make use of it. Austin saw the Movement Rune, originally owned by Larnste, the god of Change.

Austin complains that the river cults are “boring as hell”, which is why he gives the river cults in his area access to shape-shifting. Austin had a player whose thief character could shape-shift, and it was a disaster, and they had a great time.

In Austin’s version, the river cults would give their worshippers three shapes that they could acquire with Meld Form (an Enchantment which doesn’t cost POW). These forms were bull, ram, and crocodile (actually baby crocodile).

Austin suggests that use of this spell combo could make Hsunchen shape-shifting magic less overpriced, with a beast partner sensing their approaching death potentially volunteering to give their shape to a human partner.

In summary, if you want to give access to an orphaned spell, how do you fit it into the setting in a way that is kind of unusual and unexpected.

Ludo describes how playing the scenario that he later published as Bog Struggles the players got access to the spirit of the River Horse, It seems to be very common to encounter spirits or forgotten godlings whose magic may get accessible as a spirit cult.

It is a question “What do I get in return for joining this cult”, and Austin points out that this mind-set was typical for the ancient (and earlier) periods. Cult practices were of a transactional nature – I give you this cow and you stop messing up my harvest by sending (pr withholding) rain. Deities were powerful forces, but not role models, unlike in modern monotheism.

Ludo calls the deities selfish assholes who mess with people and stuff, make children with whatever and demand worship and adoration. Jörg compares the deities to service providers who need to be propitiated in order to get the necessary service. We go on talking about Orlanth as Comcast deep in Balazar… We talk about how you only get the right kind of lightning when within reach of at least one of the holy mountains.

The RuneQuest rules recognize several layers of cults by importance as well as by the target entity.

Spirit cults are a place to start if you want to screw with cults. They found very naturally upon exposure of the adventurers to the cult entity.

Austin wonders whether spirit cults are regularly established via adventurer types or whether they may be started by ordinary folk in the setting of Glorantha.

Ludo posits that usually there will be a shaman nearby whose job it is to monitor spirits and to know how to deal with them, both to avoid arousing them and when player adventurers or unlucky NPCs have aroused them (creating scenario hooks).

Jörg has a different approach, with spirits of and in the household or on a ship etc. being interacted with by ordinary people – often propitiated, but also asked for boons or magic.

Austin talks about household spirits falling into Ernalda’s domain, and Ludo brings up ancestor worship as another form of personal relation to spirits. Austin expects non-adventurer people not founding spirit cults but initiating into existing ones (providing the necessary number of worshipers for shrines to work). E.g. a minor healing spirit able to provide Cure Disease who may temporarily attract a great following.

Mechanically, spirit cults are a way to give player adventurers that one spell they cannot get from their main cult but can’t live without. Austin compares them to prestige classes in certain D20 games. In RuneQuest, this ties into the Power economy: how much you put into Rune spells, how much into personal enchantments, or other uses.

Austin re-invents the existing Praxian spirit cult Lightning Boy (the local form of Orlanth Adventurous).

Austin talks about giving a spirit cult a special rune spell and maybe one or two common rune spells. In hindsight, his treatment of Hrunda in To Hunt A God may have been over-complicated by giving some but not all common rune spells.

For another example, a Naiad who grants Breath Air/Water might make that POW investment more attractive if her cult also gave Heal Wound as an alternative use for that rune point.

Cult entities of spirit cults tend to be fairly minor deities or big spirits. Ludo thinks of them as not big enough to have played a role in the Gods War.

With major cults, Ludo sees a lot more strings attached.

Jörg proposes spirit cults as shards of greater deities unavailable in the local pantheon, e.g. in Prax (Lightning Boy) or the Lunar Heartlands. Austin and Jörg riff about farmer magics.

Austin asks whether most spirit cults would be formed after accidental encounters with a spirit, or whether people went out of their way to find a spirit to worship for a certain purpose. Ludo and Jörg agree that encounters play a role, whether in a game or in stories. (There are cases of heroes bringing in spirit cults to serve their communities, like e.g. Balazar with Mralota).

Ludo argues that spirit cults are just the first phase of a regular cult, with most remaining at this size (or disappearing again) while others grow and grow until they qualify for temples and regular cult structures. Ludo can see how (a local form of) Yelmalio could start out as a spirit cult before attracting more than a few dozen worshippers.

Other people go on exploratory heroquests to bring back an entity filling their needs that may turn out to be just an aspect of a greater deity (or grow into one). Jörg uses the simile of people describing the elephant by touching one of its parts to describe how such explorers may not grasp the full extent and associations of a deity they have contacted. Even major cults cannot really embrace the entirety of their deity.

Propitiation is a major point in spirit cults, too – giving sacrifice just to an aspect to be left in peace.

People constructing cults and shaping cult entities are known, too. Most notorious were the God Learners, but they were hardly alone. Austin points out that there is no reliable systematic approach, things need to be messy. Jörg suggests another term of these partial worship, splinter cults.

Austin makes a difference between contacting a tree spirit that exists within Time from contacting a God Time entity or partial entity like Aldrya. Austin also warns us not to delve too deep into the differences between God Time and Time…

Austin starts with the observation that a hero cult is like a spirit cult, using the same mechanic. Ludo and Jörg point out that the difference lies mainly in the cult entity, as a worshipped cult hero may still be alive. Ludo even suggests that the entity can be one of the player characters.

Austin observes that it can be very fun to be worshipped, because then you get special powers. Jörg sees also a ball-and-chain aspect of being worshipped, as the cult entity gets pulled into the same role again and again, will he or nil he. Ludo asks whether that is more your echo in the God Plane, but Jörg claims that your echo and ego align over time. Ludo asks to expand this, so he can throw more shenanigans at his players (possibly referring to Austin here).

Ludo lays out the rules side of the deal. Your hero goes on a heroquest and obtains a heroquest ability and some hero points to activate it. Your hero then regains the hero points by being worshipped, and the worshipper in turn gain access to (a toned down variant of) the heroquest ability as a rune spell.

Jörg names Hofstaring Treeleaper as his go-to character for a hero with a cult. Hofstaring is worshipped among the Culbrea tribe, with some getting the tree-leaping rune spell. If Hofstaring was still alive, he would easily be challenged to jump the next impossible tree.

Austin prefers Jar-eel as his example (she has that effect on people who encounter her). If you were facing Jar-eel and you had a feat that allows your axe to do double damage against Lunes (Red Moon elementals), that feat would carry over into a vulnerability for the woman who is essentially the Red Goddess walking on (Gloranthan) Earth. She also has to fulfill commitments beyond what other initiates or rune masters have to.

Jeff Richard wrote a while ago that a capital H Hero will have transgressed against their cult, too. Ludo argues that that is the way to bring progress to the cult, with ultimately the hero cult feat/Rune spell becoming a mainstream cult spell.

Ludo asks how to play out this integration into the wider cult in a game without doing something like a three year break with some charisma rolls to convince 1D6 temples to adopt your method. Jörg suggests that this may happen in the face of cataclysm when the hero’s feat becomes crucial in averting a bad fate. With the Hero Wars basically consisting of a whole series of upcoming cataclysms, no shortage there (and no big deal if the GM adds another one). Or, as Ludo puts it, there are no Hero Wars, just min-maxing players with delusion of greatness. Austin feels called out by this.

Subcults are a way to add a new aspect to a cult entity. One thing Ludo likes about Greek mythology is that there were many places where a special role was attached to an otherwise well known deity. There was a temple of Zeus Flyswatter (Zeus Apomyios) in a great collection of temples where all manner of animal sacrifice went on, which naturally attracted flies to the slaughter.

Jörg posits a different approach: whenever you write a new myth about a deity (or otherwise cult entity), you create a new subcult. Ludo thinks that’s the business of hero cults, but Austin points out that many hero cults are basically subcults of the existing cult of their hero. There are hero cults outside of existing cult structures, with Harrek the Berserk as a case study. Austin paraphrases Jeff Richard that Harrek gets worship for the same reason Malia does: “Oh please, Harrek, don’t come this way!”

Ludo makes Jar-eel the poster girl for the opposite way, a hero fully integrated into her deity’s cult. We discuss poster girls in the sense of Carry Fisher’s Princess Leia bondage image being worshipped by young boys in (or rather from) the seventies and eighties.

Austin really likes these distinctions to be messy and ambiguous. While some of the introductory material could be more straightforward, the ambiguity is what makes Glorantha (or mythology in general) fun to play around with. “Maybe that elephant has wings.”

Austin has the revelation that the entirety of the Gods War was just a dog toy. Ludo is sure that there was a God Learner theory supporting that, and Jörg locates that in the library of the sunk Trickster library in Slontos.

Jörg offers another distinction between hero cult and subcult – when did the myth (or introduction of the feat) happen, in God Time, or as a heroic effort within History?

Ludo fleshes this out – you can come back from the discovery of how to leap trees saying “look at me, I am awesome because now I can leap over trees, so worship me!”, or you can come back saying “I went to the God Time and met this kinsman of Orlanth called Bob who taught me to leap trees, so everybody worship Bob!” Hero cults are for egomaniacs, while subcults are founded by true devotees. Or the difference between Rune Lords and Rune Priests, as Jörg puts it.

Syncretism rears its ugly head: You encounter a deity which shares certain angles with your own, like e.g. being the cruel god at the Hill of Gold, chaining Orlanth to Shargash (or the Fronelan form Vorthan) and ultimately Zorak Zoran, possibly bringing in shared magic.

Austin gives an example of how the Death Wielder feat can do such heroic mis-identification that nonetheless can give access to powers.

Ludo takes Heler as the example – this could be the personification of the rain as a bona fide deity, or it could be just the name for Orlanth’s power to make it rain without any intrinsic contradiction. Vinga can be a daughter of Orlanth or just a female aspect of Orlanth. It compares to dedicating yourself only to part of the cult, like a Star Trek fan only ever watching the original series, and not the entirety of the franchise.

We conclude that you should not ever involve yourself with a fandom. And no, we aren’t fans, we are devoting ourselves to serious study of Glorantha. Ahem.

Jörg reminisces about dipping his own feet in Gloranthan fan-subcreation tackling the weird henotheism of Malkioni worshipping regular deities, like that Aeolian sect in Heortland. This triggers Austin to bring up his deranged scribble journal. Austin (too) spent three days rambling about Aeolian sorcery in his notes.

The Aeolians sit in southern Heortland, between Orlanthi Heortland (Hendrikiland) and God Forgot, a land of atheist sorcerers who either are Brithini or think they are, imitating their ways.

Austin’s deranged ramblings for Aeolian sorcery (which may never see the light of day any more than the picture above) have new relationships between runes, or assign elements to deities which aren’t apparent anywhere else. The premise is that the Monomyth could be very wrong and the magic still works, which is made possible by having the sorcery element which doesn’t rely on the warranty of your rune magic. Sorcery gives you the tools to jailbreak your phone, it is really good at it. Sorcery also allows you to infer and use the antithesis of a rune you mastered.

Regardless whether he will use it in publication or not, what Austin found out from this exercise is that if you don’t play with the cults but with the runes you are getting different results in your sub-creation.

Austin feels that the Monomyth as presented over-emphasizes the role of the elements, He plays through an experiment where all the Lightbringer deities are purely made up of power runes, including Orlanth.

Things get too messy to transcribe, or to count potential Nysalorean riddles.

Austin rambles about Entekos the still Air Goddess being the wife of Orlanth, challenging many magical preconceptions.

Jörg rambles about Orlanth possibly not being born a storm god but becoming the Storm King through his teenage hero journey through the Gods War.

Austin riffs on how the sorcerous ability to infer the antithesis of a power might influence a henotheist offshoot of a religion.

Jörg mentions his own first steps toying with the Aeolians.

Austin talks about approaching cults as a game tool rather than a setting feature and what would be interesting to mechanically play around with. Engizi is a case study of what Austin doesn’t like very much in the core rules book, there is little to incite a player to follow this deity.

As a counter-example, Austin cites Brian Duguid’s cult of Mee Vorala in his recent The Voralans offering on the Jonstown Compendium (Brian was our guest in episode 17, by the way) Austin could see himself as a troll mushroom farmer with access to cool alchemical toys and unexpected magics. “It is a really nice blend of inventive mythology and actual I could play this.”

Jörg points out that his tinkering with the Aeolians was accompanying his first time GMing RuneQuest in Glorantha after years of experience GMing RQ in his own settings, making actual play with the rules system a powerful motivation at the time, too.

Austin’s Cult of Hrundra in To Hunt A God is an example of this.

For Austin, every fun idea doesn’t stand alone but blurs into a melange. One idea behind it was an illusion-focused knowledge god would be interesting. While Hrundra turned out not to be this, this was one of the starting points. Hrundra’s monkey shape was inspired by Thoth, the Egyptian baboon-headed god of knowledge (Besides the baboon head, Thoth is also often depicted with an Ibis head, in case you were wondering how you misremembered.) Austin has a blue statue of a baboon apparently dedicated to Thoth which gave him the notion of the blue monkeys. The actual imagery for Hrundra’s species came from howler monkeys from South America. Austin likes to take not one but maybe sixteen different influences to create a new one.

To Hunt A God was intended as the big finale of Austin’s Monster of the Month series, where he wanted to throw this big cool monster into the path of the players to deal with.

Ludo asks why Hrundra was designed as a stand-alone deity rather than like Gouger, the Ernaldan cult monster boar sent as a punisher at the start of Time. Austin basically just wanted to do it this way. Really wanting to do it is part of the fun to create things this way.

Ludo asks about pitfalls, dangers etc. to look out for. Austin remembers that writing the cult was a fairly easy exercise, as he wrote the first half of the publication in about a month. The cult was following a lot of standard structures, including Campbell’s Hero’s Journey, Eliade’s shamanism, and of course the full RuneQuest cult write-up outline originating in Cults of Prax.

Playing a campaign around Sylthy in Esrolia at the time, Austin also thought how the cult would be perceived outside of the forest it protected. In his game, the Temple of the Bones is the only such cult centre in the region for a lot of the gods of the wilds, including Yinkin who does receive associate worship in many Orlanth shrines but doesn’t have a full (minor) temple anywhere except maybe in Nochet.

Jörg asks about Kipling’s Jungle Book as an influence on the Temple of Bones with its assortment of wild deities – bear, snake, large feline, monkeys…

When thinking about Hrundra, Austin’s goal was cool fun cults, with more power than a cult of this size would really earn from a pure setting perspective. Jörg points out that this is balanced by the very hard geographical limit of the cult’s influence, but Austin just likes to make the setting more “gonzo” or “Bollywood”. Austin points to the gritty and personal style on the cover of the Starter Set while the setting also allowing over-the-top magics (like the Dragonrise image in the interior of the Starter Set).

Ludo talks about a scale in the fandom of Glorantha, with some making it a very archaeological world with everyday items like looms and farming, all the way to the completely gonzo scenarios by Sandy Petersen or Nick Brooke (The Black Spear, Crimson King). Both Austin and Jörg claim both ends of the spectrum for themselves, with Austin giving an example he read about a change in Mesopotamian plowing techniques documented in cuneiform tablets led to seeds being sown deeper into the soil, leading to greater crops, leading to population growth and a period of increased warfare.

Ludo asks how runic interactions influence Austin’s writing or design. Austin regards the Form and Element Runes as nouns and the Power Runes as verbs, and the antagonism of the Power Runes plays a greater role in his design. Austin talks about how the rune dice which allow you to roll a situative rune are great props for framing a scene. Austin reads and interprets the runes, possibly more for his deranged scribbles stage of collecting ideas than for his more structured writing process.

Austin comes back to how Hrunda has lost any connection to the initial knowledge god concept, having turned into a trickster scape-goaty thing. Austin likes how Hrunda fails to fit neatly into any of these boxes, if he did he would be too mono-mythy for Austin’s tastes.

Jörg points out that Hrunda also does this by having a significant shamanic element to his theist cult. Austin emphasizes the shamanic nature of the cult and mentions how that makes getting the support for a temple unlikely. That is why he came up with the Temple of the Bones as a joint shamanic worship site where small followings of shamans of different wild gods would help one another out as lay worshippers boosting the size of the holy place.

Jörg mentions the animal worshippers of Hrunda (the non-sentient of the bluepaws monkeys) whose attendance also boosts the site beyond normal temple restrictions.

One of the images inspiring Austin was swarms of monkeys attacking people in the streets of very urban cities in India like sea-gulls. So Austin thought to throw a bunch of monkeys into urban Esrolia, as a major pain in the butt, and some of them talk.

This worship by animals is a trick first published for the Cult of Zola Fel with its intelligent and non-intelligent fish worshippers. Austin saw that and thought this should be more widespread than just one river god in the middle of nowhere.

Austin also emphasizes that the bear (Odayla) worship at the Temple of Bones is very different from the Rathori Hsunchen ways, and has no (ancestral) relationship.

Ludo asks for a rather specific cool toy like e.g. turtle shell powers that a player might ask for.

Austin talks about several ways to handle this. In the case of Hrunda the cult was there first, and then the toys came up when muddling around the different stories that resulted from that. Most of his key magic is stuff Austin made up following the pattern of Yinkin (which in turn follow the pattern of the Hsunchen entities while avoiding the shapeshifting aspect).

Austin remembers thinking about writing a short cult creation guide when the Red Book of Magic first came out, but other commitments and doubts about how it would be received resulted in about ten thousand words being shelved indeterminately. Ludo suggests publishing such notes as the Conrad Library, while Jörg asks for the Akhelas manifests. If you ever see “Volume 2 – The Great Re-Ascent of Bullshit” in print, Ludo suggested it here first.

Taking the RQ2 Rune Power concept backwards, Austin posits that if you see a bunch of spells with shared runes, you can create a cult from that retrospectively.

For an example cult of Fire and Death, Austin talks about taking five or six spells, say True Spear, Produce Light, Earthwarm and maybe two or three others. One of the spells is exciting, three are okay and useful, and then there is your equivalent of Cloud Call which is mythically significant but dull as hell. You muddle these together, and then you ask what are the stories that led to those spells.

So if you have a fire god with True Spear, how did he win his spear? Was he born with it, did he tear his own rib out to get a spear, did he climb a tall mountain and use its peak as a point of his spear, did he chop a tree down and now carries a spear but his cult is hated by elves, was he born as a spear and then became a man – weird random ideas that you can draw from.

A rune spell in Austin’s mind is really an embodiment of the myth. You are throwing a story at somebody and it blows up in their face.

So if you want to have Proteus for a spirit cult, you might make it slightly malignant, to have to keep the magic you need to acquire a new form regularly (Austin initially suggested once a season, but then ruddered back to once a year). It is a way to have the really cool toys, but requiring that you cast Sanctify or similar regularly is going to cost you. Reasons to adventure, reasons to do stuff.

Hrunda has the story about stealing fruit, as a consequence initiates cannot let each other starve, and as a shaman or rune lord your are not even allowed to pay for food, you have to be offered it for free, steal it, or grow it yourself,

As a last word on creating cults: Just do it. You will make mistakes, and you will learn from these.

Austin talks about the upcoming volume on Mythology in the Cults of RuneQuest series and how he fears it might contaminate his creativity. Jorg speculates about some of the contents, with many old acquaintances appearing, and absences being more glaring than inclusions.

Austin’s stuff can be found on the Jonstown Compendium. He also has a website, where he publishes his weekly blog, Glorantha stuff, backstory for his original world, a play report for Six Seasons in Sartar, a review of The Design Mechanism’s Mythic Babylon, trying soloquest rules and solo gaming, etc.

Austin’s most recent offerings on the Jonstown Compendium are the print version of To Hunt A God and the PDF of The Queen’s Star, a site-based adventure where you go to the Cinder Pits in Colymar lands, mucking around with fallen sky gods trying to convince them to let someone go.

Ludo takes the occasion to promote some of the stuff he has recently participated in on the Jonstown Compendium: Veins of Discord by Finmirage where he did most of the illustrations and the layout, a few drawings in The Voralans by Brian Duguid, the cover for To Hunt a God, and also one little illustration in The Queen’s Star. Ludo also teases Jörg about his still not upcoming work on Ludoch (and fisherfolk) in the Choralinthor Bay.

On a more general note, the next episode of the podcast is scheduled for early September, so please hold the line (And that’s the last telecommunication simile in this transcript, too.)

Any delays in releasing this episode are Jörg’s fault for being late with the transcript.

In this month’s Glorantha Initiation interview, Ludo talks to Bryon Ross without any Joerg present. Bryon is a long time RuneQuest lover, but he played mostly with the Fantasy Earth setting until the release of the RuneQuest Quickstart in 2017. He is also a retired marine, SCA participant, and regular Chaosium convention gamemaster.

You can find Bryon here:

Among the many things we’re ranting about in this episode, you’ll find:

The intro music is “Dancing Tiger” by Damscray. The outro music is “Islam Dream” by Serge Quadrado. Other audio is from the FreeSound library.

We start this episode with a minor existential crisis on Ludo’s identity, followed by Ludo being protective of our usual guests by volunteering to take the brunt of Jörg’s incoming obscurantism and pedantry. Ludo accuses rather than praises Jörg of being a bright guy…

Jörg wants to go to the beginning of that God Project, which was in his opinion the discovery of the Pseudocosmic Egg in the ruins of Dorastor. He mentions the Dawn Age appendix in the Guide, p.712 if you want to take a deeper read into this. (If you own the old RQ3 Dorastor Book, it has this text, too.)

Ludo asks whether the Pseudocosmic egg, that rare artifact which was instrumental in creating the perfect god, was just lying around in those ruins, and Jörg name-drops the Feldichi builders of those ruins, suggesting that the artifact would have been sitting in a Feldichi laboratory.

The ruins were first discovered by the early settlers, in the 120ies. Ludo paints this time (prior to hostile contact with the Horse Warlords in Dara Happa) as a time of peace and plenty.

We talk about the nature of the Pseudocosmic Egg, an artifact which Jörg describes as something that spoke to its investigators, awakening creative urges that ultimately led to the decision to breed a perfect deity.

Its origin isn’t clear, although Jörg wouldn’t be Jörg if he did not have a theory about that.

A rather weird theory, describing the Egg as an unborn child of Mostal, the World Machine, which would be a von Neumann probe in this theory – a self-replicating mechanism establishing a universe and then spawning daughter universes, more places like Glorantha. Only Mostal was damaged by the birth of Umath, and the hatching of the egg (in Jörg’s theory one of eight) was interrupted.

This gives the entire Dorastor civilization (both the Feldichi and the Second Council) a certain science-fantasy vibe, which is fine with Jörg.

Anyway, the people investigating the egg start the God Project.

Ludo expounds on their possible motivations: having the gods around again. (An effect which is called “Proximate Holy Realm” by Jeff Richard, describing the vicinity of deities in Belintar’s City of Wonders, but which also seems to have been the goal of the EWF Third Council.)

Jörg briefly introduces Lokamayadon as the new Orlanthi member of the Second Council, a Pelorian, non-Heortling Orlanthi, and his personal feud against the family of the Vanak Spear heroes in the Berennethtelli tribe (who were Heortlings), foreshadowing Harmast Barefoot who was one of their descendants.

Being forced back onto the God Project, Jörg drops another name of the participants, Holy Estorex, a Dara Happan mystic who becomes one of the chief contributors to the new deity.

Ludo mishears the name as Asterix, the cartoon hero by Goscinni and Uderzo whose adventures in and from Roman occupied Gaul are a great inspiration for the Sartarites despite being very non-Sartarite.

Leaving that aside, we talk about what the Dara Happans want from this.

For context: up to 221, since before the Dawn, the Dara Happans and other Pelorian lowlanders were ruled by horse warlords who immigrated from the Arcos Valley and established a semblance of order in the Gray Age while remaining quite barbaric themselves. These horse-warlords slaughtered any Lightbringer Missionaries entering their territory, which earned them the enmity of the Council in Dorastor, and led to its first war, culminating in the Battle of Argentium Thri’ile in 221 (a name wisely – or cowardly – not pronounced by Jörg).

Jörg talks about the effect of having Holy Estorex on the God Project, which led to new advances, and a grwoing unease of the trolls, the Heortlings and the Dragonewts, all of whom ultimately break off from the project and their participation in the Second Council, which is called the Broken Council afterwards.

Ludo describes the Dara Happan representative as the Yoko Ono of the Second Council.

(A pop culture reference as old as the older part of our audience: this is about the break-up of the Beatles, one of the most infliential bands of the late sixties and early seventies of the last century. As if “pop” in pop culture stands for “dad” or “granddad”…)

We talk about how this representation of all elements is an ongoing theme, like with Belintar’s Holy Country, and a reflection of the universe. Which gets Jörg to drop in the Young Elementals, source of the non-moon elemental magic of the Seven Mothers Cult, who were the spawn of the Pseudocosmic Egg alongside Osentalka.

Fast-forward to the Sunstop, with Jörg listing other culprits like the Kralori emperor meditating, Western wizards fighting shamans in Fronela, a new bloom in the Yellow Elf forests in Pamaltela.

Ludo observes that these pivotal moments in Gloranthan myth or history always have multiple causes and participants.

Jörg adds that he is pretty sure Zzabur had something to do with the cause of the Sunstop, too.

Ludo asks whether the Sunstop was a bad thing, and Jörg forwards the Dara Happan notion that this would be the ideal state of the world, re-creating the ideal of Godtime. The trolls on the other hand might think this is the worst idea possible – at least those who were condemned to a life on the Surface World.

Jörg tries to convey that while (normal) Time stopped, lives went on. Hence “the Sunstop lasted for an unknowable amount of time” doesn’t mean that everybody was frozen in their movements (as that would mean they wouldn’t even notice the Sunstop).

Necessarily, Jörg mentions the birth of Arkat in the distant forests of Brithos, probably as the result of a tryst with a deity (these things happen in the Malkioni west all the time in that age), a deity who leaves his mortal offspring the Unbreakable Sword.

Looking back at Dorastor, Ludo asks whether Nysalor was born with a cool magical item like his counterpart, or whether Arkat gets preferential treatment by the GM. Jörg points out that Nysalor is born with a partially restored magical city to his name, while Arkat starts out in the wilderness.

Jörg clarifies that he meant the magical buildings left behind by the Feldichi and brought into a semblance of function by the Second Council. With the possibility that Osentalka’s birth awakens the ruins more than before.

Ludo asks whether the two antagonists were born as infants. Jörg opines that Arkat was indeed born the biological way as a baby, whereas Nysalor probably came into the world as a fully grown adolescent, a shape he retained trhoughout the rest of his life.

Coming to the end of the Sunstop, Ludo asks how this ended. Jörg first gives the observations that were passed on through the generations: dark strands forming around the sun, dragging it back onto its Sunpath procession. Some people call that the Web of Arachne Solara, and Ludo imagines a “pissed-off” Arachne Solara. Jörg suggests that the Sun Spider (Arachne Solara) and her son Time pull the sun back onto its cycle,

The perfect god Osentalka (who could only exist under the perfect conditions of the Sunstop) becomes revered as Nysalor, the Bright Lord.

Ludo asks whether this demand for perfection is part of an in-world sage’s agenda, or whether this is an objective observation. Jörg evades the question, re-stating that there was Osentalka who was perfect while Time had stopped, but when it re-started again, the deity now named Nysalor had imperfections.

Ludo tries to play that down as excuses. Jörg argues that Nysalor doesn’t do or need excuses, since he is illuminated. We discuss who might have apologized, but other than some humans on the council (illuminated by the time they could be interviewed) we don’t find who might have apologized. Certainly not the Mostali who were involved.

Ludo summarizes what we said about the Bright Empire in our last episode – a Solar-themed empire that took over vast chunks of Central and even Western Genertela.

Jörg brings up the Battle of Night and Day, where the friends and foes of Nysalor met three years after the Sunstop. While the battle is described in quite a lot of detail in the Stafford Library offering History of the Heortling People (from the perspective of Lokamayadon), Jörg attempts to give an elevator pitch of those details.

Ludo asks how the battle went. It started with conventional warfare (other than Lokamayadon riding his flying ram while the King of the Heortlings is riding a cloud, which Ludo agrees is fairly conventional for Gloranthan warfare).

The Dara Happan forces facing the trolls are faring badly, and the Dara Happan general asks his Vanchite (hill barbarian aka Orlanthi) charioteer whether he had any hidden trump card. The charioteer replies, “Try my god, Daysenerus, the planet Lightfore.”

Ludo asks whether we are talking about Yelmalio, which is of course another name for this sort of divine presence.

Ludo also wonders whether the charioteer god should be Lokarnos, but Jörg insists that Lokarnos is the wagon(eer) god rather than the chariot(eer) god. What’s the difference? “You wouldn’t use a Lamborghini to move furniture, would you?”

The general does, calling the deity into himself, whereupon the deity itself manifests on the battlefield with a divine presence above and beyond what was agreed on in the Great Compromise. (Note that it was the humans summoning the deity this way who broke the compromise, not the deity out of its own volition – up to that point.)

Ludo sensibly asks how this is different from casting awesome amounts of Rune Magic “as the deity”.

Jörg replies that there is a vast difference in scale between spending a whole lot of rune points and calling forth this much of a divine presence. In fact, this over-taxes the life force of the Dara Happan general, who dies of this experience – in RQ terms possibly because he blew all of his personal POW in the process. The deity does stick around long enough for the commander of the Nysaloran center, a certain Palangio, to synchronize with the newly arrived deity, which bears a certain resemblance to his own (Lightfore?) deity from Rinliddi.

The trolls don’t take this standing still, they huddle together forming a great black thing, the Black Eater.

There is a big Lightfore deity on one side and the huge Darkness monster, the Black Eater, on the other side.

Jörg claims that this is well beyond conventional Gloranthan warfare, while Ludo tries to blame this on “heroquesting powers and what not”.

So we get this towering figure of a bright spearman facing the trolls, who shrink back from the brightness.

Jörg claims that what happens here is more apocalyptic, as hundreds of trolls dissolve into the Black Eater whose great maw proceeds to eat up the Dara Happans, hindered by Daysenerus.

And that’s when Nysalor, thar androgynous youth of a god, steps onto the battlefield, and right into the maw of the Black Eater.

Ludo: “And he dies, end of the story.” “All of his friends fear that is the case.”

Instead, the black blob starts convulsing and shrieking, falling apart into thousands of trolls, all of whom suffered terrible wounds to their wombs (if they had them, or comparable internal damage if they did not). This wounding affects all trolls, up to Korasting, Mother of Many, the fecund daughter of Kyger Litor and second most important ancestral deities of the trolls.

Ludo points to the RuneQuest Bestiary as the currently best available source on the Trollkin Curse.

Ludo asks whether this is where the troll expression “don’t put all your trolls into the same Black Eater” comes from, an expression Jörg had not heard before.

That’s also how the trolls gave Nysalor the name “Womb-Biter”, or D’Wargon.

All trolls are injured, and instead of getting normal dark troll births, which also are diminished compared to the original Mistress Race, they get these runts.

Ludo goes on a tangent fabulating about a great ball of all the trollkin in the hero wars, getting even worse offspring, and observes that the (dark) trolls keep getting worse and worse reproductive deals.

So Nysalor wins the Battle of Night and Day – a resounding victory. On the Storm flank, the king of the Heortlings falls to Lokamayadon, Palangio mops up the field with his awesome Daysenerus powers, and the dragonewts were supposed to suffer from a similar curse, but a dragon intercedes and negates it. The Heortlings are conquered by the forces of Palangio in the afteermath of the battle.

Ludo asks whether this is limited to the Pelorian Heortlings, but no, all the Heortlings all the way to Kethaela are subject to Palangio’s overlordship. He conquers Esrolia, too, but the region nowadays known as Heortland in the Holy Country remains unconquered – it is a forested, thinly settled land at this time, inhabited by the followers of Hendrik the Free.

Ludo asks the usual question:Why do we care about all that shit that happened in a distant past?

Jörg mentions that this resulted in the founding of the Sun Dome Temple at Vanntar by Palangio, as a means to control the conquered Orlanthi.

Ludo complains that that is all good and fine, but why would it be relevant in the Gloranthan now of 1625. While it is cool and adds a bit of flavor, since then a lot of other things have happened which influenced history as much or more.

Jörg evades by talking about Lokamayadon’s endeavors after the Battle of Night and Day. Lokamayadon’s heroquesting (what about Harmast or Arkat starting the business of Orlanthi exploratory heroquesting in the Dawn Age?) leads him to TarUmath, the High Storm, the Storm beyond the Storm.

(Actually, Tarumath started out as the Harmony Storm, already present at the Battle of Night and Day, where Lokamayadon’s Orlanthi from Lakrene are interchangeably called Tarumathings. History of the Heortling People, p.18 onwards for the account of the Battle of Night and Day. This also tells how Lokamayadon calling upon his god steals the breath of all weaker Orlanthi, and how only Hendrik the Larnsti could keep a free breath in his cloak.)

Lokamayadon becomes the super-Orlanthi, taking the Breath of all weaker Orlanthi – pretty much like what happened to the worshipers of Orlanth during the Windstop.

Ludo asks why Lokamayadon (who is an Orlanthi) is doing that (stealing everyone’s breath, and magic). Jörg replies that Lokamayadon is becoming Orlanth, or like Orlanth. Worship of the High Storm (which Jörg assumes goes through the person of Lokamayadon) is still possible, which means that his followers are doing fine with magic. This is extremely high stakes.

Jörg talks about Lokamayadon’s downfall, which is tied to his feud with the Berennethtelli clan which ultimately produced Harmast Barefoot, a youth who managed to survive the initiation rites and contact Orlanth despite Lokamayadon holding on to the High Storm.

Harmast Barefoot is of course the Orlanthi who first re-enacted the Full Lightbrigners’ Quest (and even did it twice).

Ludo tells how Harmast returns Arkat from Hell after the hero had been killed by Palangio (in 418, in front of Kartolin Castle, on the Dorastan border of Ralios).

Harmast’s family was hiding out on the edge of Prax, outside of the Bright Empire proper. When Ludo says that there is probably no trace of this in the modern era, Jörg counters that the site of the Battle of the Verge is known as Barbarian Town in the Third Age (again a hide-out against unjust persecution).

What next? After the Battle of Night and Day, Palangio goes on conquering Maniria, on behalf of the Bright Empire, he visits the lost city of Erenplose hiding in a bubble under water, gets a hint to follow a magical item up to a mountain where the a piece of the sky fell down in the Gods War (Selon Mount) and finds the Iron Vrok there, according to Jörg a huge magical beast made of iron which Palangio then can ride – pretty much like the Dykene Hawk Riders in Balazar.

Ludo is slightly disappointed as he expected a smaller sidekick that would be able to land on Palangio’s shoulders.

Ludo asks whether the bird is a Mostali construct, but Jörg pleads for a magical creature in its own right.

Bright Empire visionaries have been active in Ralios, entering across Kartolin Pass. The Dangan Confederacy in the Tanier Valley (pretty much exactly where the modern Kingdom of Seshnela is located) accepts the teachings of Holy Estorex, the Dara Happan mystic mentioned above. This worthy is converting the local Enerali Orlanthi to the cause of the Bright Empire.

Ludo asks whether this is where Arkat will be fighting (of course it is). Jörg states that the Ralian Orlanthi are divided, many join the Bright Empire, but some groups resist it – in typical Orlanthi manner.

Ludo asks whether this is when someone has the bright idea to spread the uncurable disease that only the priests of Nysalor can heal. Ludo is sort of disappointed about how sneaky the Bright Empire operates. Jörg quotes Nysalor: “On the Edge of Light there is always Darkness.”

Bur this method of spreading the cult is successful, and a large number of people in Seshnela and even Arolanit follow the cult that brings the cure, tp the point where Nysalor’s mystical thinking is taking over the land of rationality, Arolanit.

Arolanit used to be the most orthodox and pious of the Brithini colonies, and Zzabur and his Talar rulers won’t have that.

Ludo observes that this is in the extreme west of the continent of Genertela, and that this is when the Brithini army is brought to the continent, including Arkat as a young Horali soldier.

This is where the Brithini army is confronted with the dark minions of the god Kraljid, a demonic entity which had history already in the wars of the Serpent Kings of Seshnela. This entity is controlled by the Bright Empire, a state of affairs that is ended by Arkat when he puts that god to rest (if not for good, then at least for the rest of the Dawn Age). This happened in a little town in westernmost Tanisor (the modern province or rather heartland of the Third Age Kingdom of Seshnela)-.a town named Kaniwal. Jörg jokes that it could be pronounced like cannibal, too, which is possibly one of the cult practices of Kraljid.

Jörg refers to a fragment of Arkat’s Saga that Greg Stafford read at Convulsion 1994, a rather nightmaresh stand against dark enemies strikung out of the shadows, which has been compared to a Vietnam war report.

This Arkat Saga fragment is occasionally offered for quite high sums on Ebay, alongside other fragments of Greg Stafford’s early western stories.

Back to the topic: The Nysalor Cult has a priest overseeing things in Seshnela by the name of Gaalth – with two “a”s, according to Ludo a sure sign that this is a bad guy.Jürg offers that he is bound to have a goatee and an evil laugh.

But Gaalth is rather charismatic, and spreads Illumination among those he healed, and once illuminated, the so afflicted and healed understand that the ordeal was a learning experience.

Ludo asks whether this was the first time the Bright Empire is actively teaching illumination, but to Jörg’s knowledge that happened all over the Empire.

Jörg points out that the Dara Happans pursued Illumination as long as they have memories, even the horse warlords did so to some extent. They pursue the enhanced state Yelm obtained when he recognized his Other (or Shadow).

We jest about what happens if you stare into the sun too long,.Jörg adds that the worshipers of Dayzatar look beyond the sun to a higher truth, and what Lokamayadon did with the High Storm was similar.

We briefly return to Lokamayadon when Ludo asks whether he attempted to establish an illuminated Orlanthi culture, Ludo fabulates that we could have an illuminated Orlanthi culture, peaceful and urbanized. Jörg points out that exactly this happened in the next age, although with a different (draconic) form of enlightenment.

Once again. Ludo wants to pull these things into the now, suggesting Lokamayadon as a role model for Illuminated Orlanthi. Jörg insists that mainstream Orlanthi reject what Lokamayadon did, but there is always room for dissidents.

Ludo asks whether that disease might still be around, but it seems to have disappeared without the Nysalor Cult to spread it.

Ludo asks for more information on this disease, and Jörg points to the Seshnelan Kings List on the Well of Daliath.

When asked what cool Third Age adventuring can result from all this information, Jörg points at Lunars searching for such fragments from the Bright Empire. There may also be parts in Ralios where the local Orlanthi think that Nysalor was a good thing, and Arkat a terrible mistake.

Whether Safelstran basements with secret meetings support Powerpoint presentations for indoctrination can be decided by the GM.

The Bright Empire is spreading out, but it is starting to get some opposition (it could not overcome). In Seshnela, it is quite successful, but the ruling dynasty prefers to rule afflicted by the disease rather than succumb to the whisperings of Gaalth and Gbaji (although some of their cousins did).

Jörg describes how the conflict in Seshnela was really a civil war, with the Nysalor cult opposed by the rulers, and how a decisive battle between the friends of Gaalth on one side and Arkat and the king on the other is almost lost for Arkat, when a shiny young hero with a flaming sword and fresh horse troops falls into the rear of the Nysalorans.

Faced with defeat, the opponents show the ugly side of illumination when they start to sprout tentacles and other such abominations, causing grievous losses even in their defeat. The old dynasty is ended on that battlefield, a new one emerges (and gets afflicted by the disease, too).

Maybe not the first time – there was the fight against the Vampire King of Tanisor, too.

Ludo talks about how cool the title “Vampire King of Tanisor” is, and asks whether we have information how that came about, and how vampires join the forces of light which usually are their nemesis.

Jörg brings up Tanisoran history, with Sehsnegi invasions unleashing vile Vadeli magics.

The Vadeli are the anti-Brithini, or as Ludo puts it, even more like Brithini. Rather than obeying the Brithini rules, the Vadeli carefully transgress these in specific wasy, leading to a society using vile magics and slavery.

Jörg points to Nick Brooke’s illuminated History of Malkionism for better information on the Vadeli.

Ludo complains that the Vadeli way is convoluted, going at lengths to make a mockery of the Brithini rules, only to achieve the same result – immortality.

Jörg suspects that the Vampire Kings used magics that were left behind or perhaps recently imported by the Vadeli magics that poisoned the land before. Ludo cuts short Jörg-s attempts to take a closer look at the Vadeli.

Apparently the vampires can tolerate the Brightness of Nysalor without getting burned

.

Jörg points out that the Tanisoran nobility were people afraid of dying, so they took an alternative route out, achieving escape from death. They also formed a vampire legion – a unit found in the Lunar Empire.

Asked whether there is anything left of these struggles, Jorg names the Vampire King Gracmacaglan, in his royal city of Taniwal, nowadays known as the Red Ruins because the fallout from that battle still glows stronger than Cernobyl.

The Brithini officer was there to collect the helmet (which doubled as the crouwn) of the Vampire King when Arkat beheaded him, performing a service only a Talar caste member could in the Brithini army. That worthy way Talar Malaskan Philippe, who is still alivc, and has been the ruling Talar of Arolanit for the last five centuries. Jörg dispels Ludo’’s notion that he might be a vampire, pointing out his Brithini nature.

Ludo asks whether there are still nests of vampires in the region, and Jörg claims that vampires never go away for good. The Vampire Legion now serves in the Lunar Empire. (Jörg thinks that some might be able to boast that they were decapitated by Arkat once or twice.)

Jörg also points to the Kingdom of Ramalia in Maniria where the rulers might use magics similar to those of the Vampire Kings.

Ludo gets enthusiastic about ancient vampires acting as strategicians and grey eminences, not limited to the Vampire Legion. Jörg counters that he wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were teaching at the Lunar College of Magic, although only the very advanced courses.

Ludo imagines a Harry Potter style campaign in the Lunar College of Magic, and asks for someone to write that up for the Jonstown Compendium (or official releases).

Jörg puts a mild damper (and a spoiler for Sun County) that some ancient vampires may have lost their memories in the centuries since.

We briefly digress about that unhealable wound that Arkat contracted – apparently a spear wound to the foot rather than a Rand al-Thor stab into the abdomen – during his initiation to the Cult of Hhumakt.

Early in the Ralian campaign, Holy Estorex opposes Arkat’s advance, but gets beaten up and escapes limping, barely alive.

In 418, Arkat approaches Kartolin Castle and asks for a challenger for single combat. Palangio responds, slays Arkat, wipes the floor with his companions and his army. The next four years, the Bright Empire retakes what it lost in Ralios, while Arkat lingers in Hell.

The Seshnegi Kings believe that they are done with the Gbaji Wars, and the Bright Empire thinks they are done with Arkat. Harmast Barefoot’s Lightbringers’ Quest changes all that.

Harmast brings Arkat to Hrelar Amali, thie most holy place in Ralios, where the tree of Flamal used to stand in Godtime before Zorak Zoran hewed it down, in the Tanier Valley, nowadays only a ruin.

There is a Ralian Humakti whose name is remembered – Makla Man, a cult hero of Humakt, who aided Arkat against the Vampire King and who invited him to his father’s cult after he had become an Orlanthi. He has special magics against resurrection. We discuss how escaping the Underworld in other ways than Chalana Arroy resurrection doesn’t trigger the Humakti.

We discuss the Telmori gift by Nysalor (later turned into a curse by Talor). We meniton the Telmori temple city in northern Vesmonstran, destroyed by Arkat when he drove the gifted Telmori north of the Nidan range (making them another problem for Talor to solve)

Even with the Telmori out of the way, Arkat was thwarted again and again at Kartolin Castle, so he left a siege force there and turned south into Slontos, rule by Palangio at the time.

Jörg briefly digresses to Palangio having established the dragonewt colony at Ryzel in Maniria.

Ludo asks about Palangio’s relationship with the dragonewts. Jörg assumes that the dragonewts were obliged to give Palangio some form of support, and that the Ryzel colony was their way of dealing with that oligation.

We briefly mention the siege of Kaxtorplose, and a naval operation on board of Waertagi ships bringing Arkat’s army into the east.

Kaxtorplose still has ruins and temples remembering the Gbaji Wars.

We briefly talk about the Hendriki, the last free Heortlings against the Bright Empire.

The theater of war enters Dragon Pass, with the fighting getting more and more bitter, Chaos coming into the fight more often, and troll forces becoming more important.

Jörg brings up Gerlant Flamesword again, now a Seshnegi noble who married the sister of the new king Hupala, and who lost several sons fighting alnogside Arkat even though he condemned his conversions to Orlanth and Humakt, and ultimately to Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran.

Jörg muses about Arkat’s nameless companions who joined him in beciming trolls, expecting at least one Brithini and one Man-of-All, plus various Orlanthi both from Ralios and from the Dragon Pass region among them.

The troll politics around Arkat’s rebirth are mentioned, and Arkat’s initial fecundity siring Mistress Race daughters.

Jörg talks about how the Heortlings get to conquer a largely undefended Dara Happa while their best forcces try to stem Arkat’s dark tide towatrds Dorastor. The Heortling take great riches (which might have been plundered from their lands before) and establish a tribute after having deposed the former emperor.

We talk about Arkat’s trail of destruction towatds Dorastor, still haunted and forbidding.

In Dorator, Arkat faces off with Ralzakark and kills him. When asked who Ralzakark was during the Bright Empire, Jörg speculates that he was a civilized, unicord-headed guy who operated Feldichi technology amd helped manage the empire, a good conversationalist, possibly a good dancer who had the misfortune to have to fight Arkat, the most monstrous troll you can imagine. Ralzakark was killed and dismembered, and to bring him back some rite or quest of resurrection would have been required. Something nobody in their right mind would do, which is why some God Learners did it.

We briefly discuss the Lunar depiction of the conflict from the Appendix in the Guide.

A very quick run through Talor the Laughing Warrior’s achievements, re-founding Loskalm, overcoming Varganthar the Unconquerable Knight, but dying and ending up in Hell.

Harmast goes onto another Lightbringers’ Quest, returns with another western warrior, Ludo speculates there may have been even more people brought back from Hell by Harmast, but there is a list of his quests somewhere.

We touch upon the Hrestoli concept of Joy of the Heart (again a topic for the History of Malkionism mentined above), It is not illuminaiton, but hard to tell apart.

Harmast and Talor unite the Loskalmi Malkinio and the Orlanthi of the region, fight the Telmori in Ralios and enter Dorastor in time to witness Arkat’s assault on the Tower of Dreams and him cirsomg the amcoemt technology of the Feldichi. Talor takes inspiration and casts his own curse on the (few surviving) Telmori with the gift.

We discuss whether the Telmori shape-shifting could be done through the wyter with multi-casting etc, and the pitfalls of using the wyter’s permanent POW to fuel these spells.

Jörg doubts thtt Telmori packs can support a regular wyter.

The Shadow Tribute, expanded to the Dagori Inkart trolls by Arkat’s command, to compensate for missed booty from the Dara Happans, whose tribute initially paid for the troll portion.

Jörg points out the irony that subsequently, the Heortling lands become the urbanized, (and ultimately enlightened) civilization Lokamayadon would have wanted, the Kingdom of Orlanthland and later the EWF.

And now Jörg asks how any of this is relevant to your game set in the now of RuenQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha.

Ludo talks about three levels of artefacts etc. to unearth – recent history, old history, and the Godtime.

There are two approaches – either you can use all this history, sprinkle in odd facts (like the connection fo the magical sword Ironbreaker with Arkat), or you can just improvise ignoring established history, expanding it with your own.

Ludo argues you can just “make up some shit”.

Jörg talks about players researching these layers, pulling together artefiacts etc. There is also the cyclical nature of Glroanthan history, and it would be weird not to re-use stuff that happened to Arkat which doesn’t happen to Argrath.

Jörg talks about similarities between Morag, the horned brother of Biturian’s sister Norayeep, and how this character might emerge as a companion of Arkat, a horned hero, either overtowering physique or weird magic. Listen to the Bitouran Varosh series of podcasts if you want to know more about this.

Ludo asks whether Argrath is expected to multiclass like Arkat did, and Jörg doesn’t think so.

We talk about how player characters can become necessary elements of Argrath’s heroquesting. Basically the stuff Biturian is offered again and again, and rejects. Ludo tells a similar story about his current players refusing to meet Argrath (during the Lunar occupaiton of Pavis).. Jörg suggests offers that cannot be refused (when offered in a raspy voice).

To summarize:

Arkat’s foes were people, too.

Arkat’s friends had some very strange stories.

Ludo accuses Jörg of pulling a historian’s agenda, but Jörg counters with the developments in Ralios where Arkat is bound to return. Five Arkats (plus a few more false ones).

Jörg makes a case for Arkati bringing knowledge to heroquesting where Harmast brought emoition and passion, and for the power of invoking the appropriate mythical identifications. Know your history, know your enemies, outsmart them.

In conclusion, we address the parallel with the Exploring Glorantha series covering the same time-frame.

Notice that this is the text version only. Return for page references and links soonish.

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.

Joerg and Ludo welcome Bud from Bud’s RPG Review, where we see his hands in a typical unboxing set-up, not just doing flip-throughs but also a whole series of explanation videos:

[1] It seems that since the episode was recorded, Bud fixed the duplicated RuneQuest video playlist… or maybe Ludo imagined it.

Another place to find Bud is the “Bud and Griff’s Gaming Creepshow” podcast, a “podcast about spooky gaming” (in Bud’s words):

Last but not least, Bud is one of the authors of the Miskatonic Repository bestselling book Viral: A Modern Call of Cthulhu Scenario, with Alex Guillotte. For those of you less involved with Call of Cthulhu, the Miskatonic Repository is the sister community content program to the Jonstown Compendium.

Bud states that his “Bud Explains” videos (which Ludo has faithfully linked from his newsletter) are really for beginners, since delving into the lore of Glorantha can be hard work. He promises more in the future.

Finally you can find Bud on Twitter, if that thing is still going by the time you read this.

Going to our main topic, Ludo says that you will find mention of that guy Arkat in many places, with plenty of lore to dig into. So who is this guy, and why is he cool?

Bud points out that many of the things Arkat did are kind of hidden.

Arkat is possibly most renowned for being the person who mastered heroquesting and for being the slayer of a god, whom he called Gbaji the Deceiver, but who was known to his worshippers as Nysalor.

Bud remains neutral on whether the deity slain by Arkat was the Deceiver or not.

Ludo gives the context that all of these great deeds happened about 1200 years ago (if you are playing in the normal 1625 time frame). To give a comparison from our world’s history, Ludo suggests a weird Arthurian hero, Jörg interjects that Charlemagne fits the time frame even better. Ludo jokes that Charlemagne was evil because he introduced the school system, but Jörg points out that his evil included the genocide of the Saxons, and that that may be why the peace price of the European Union is named after him.

Getting back on topic, Ludo points out that the Gbaji Wars ended with the blighting and destruction of Dorastor, formerly a beautiful and fertile land.

Bud calls Arkat’s action the rites of cleansing, even though they poisoned the land.

(Arkat did curse the land of Dorastor, and sort of bound the Chaos that had been loosed in the final phase of the Gbaji Wars to this ruined place. The land remained dormant for quite a while until both God Learners and EWF explorers took an interest, which seems to have awakened the land.)

Ludo then talks about Arkat’s star, which appeared when Arkat apotheosized early in the Second Age. Jörg claims that the star vanished since, because the God Learners hid the way.

(Doing some additional research after the podcast, the Guide p.646 claims that Arkat is a prominent constellation in the area of the sky called the Celestial Fields, between the Celestial Forest and the Celestial River.)

(The star map on p. 645 only shows a differently named constellation: the Doves, which is how the Dara Happans name the constellation. They were followers of Nysalor and have no love at all for the slayer of their god, whom they name Gbaji.)

(The list of constellations talks about the constellation of Arkat, stating that only one star was visible there at the Dawn, but that Arkat’s apotheosis caused three bright companions and a number of less bright ones nearby that some claim for the hero as well.)

So Jörg was wrong by remembering correctly that there is no constellation named Arkat on the star map.

Bud then points out that Arkat also is a troll god.

Ludo then sums it up: Arkat was several things to several people, he was some sort of either hero or antihero or evil war general. “He killed a whole bunch of people and did many awesome things.”

Bud starts by telling us that Arkat was born in the elf forests of Brithos, interestingly during the Sunstop… or the Sunspot? Linguistic shenanigans ensue, and come to haunt us.

The Sunstop occurred in the year 375 S.T. (“Solar Time”, after the Dawn) when the Second Council (cooperating with the Dara Happan Empire) created Osentalka, the (presumed) Perfect God, in their capital in Dorastor.

(Several other contributors to the Sunstop include Malkioni sorcerers in Fronela casting a great ritual against the Hsunchen shamans, the Kralori Emperor meditating on a potent symbol – the Dragon’s Eye, and a hundred thousand Aldryami in Pamaltela calling on a good spirit to combat a virulent rot affecting them and their forests. See the Guide to Glorantha p.128 for the wider view. A good introductory read is the history from Cults of Terror, available on the Well of Daliath and reprinted in the Guide.)

Bud goes into detail on Arkat’s birth on Brithos, an island in the western Neliomi Sea that disappeared during the Closing (some say that its disappearance caused the Closing).

Arkat’s birth may have been the creation of the opposite to the newborn god in Dorastor, a balancing force brought in by the universe. The new god was born outside of the Compromise, making the birth of Arkat the opposition of the universe to this insult to Time.

Bud compares this to Argrath being the nemesis of the Red Goddess.

Arkat was fostered by the Aldryami of Brithos, and supposedly illuminated by them at a young age, which Bud thinks is another great irony. About 24 years later he was part of the 4th Brithos Army of Law,

Eventually he became known as the son of Humakt, Arkat Humaktsson.

Progressing through local wars (with the Vampire Kings of Tanisor still as Brithini soldier, then alongside the Seshnegi Men-of-All against the Nieby priests led by Gaalth, then joining the Orlanthi of the upper Tanier River in their fight against Gbaji‘s shock troops, the Telmori who had received Nysalor’s blessing to turn into magical wolves on Wilddays) Arkat became aware of the Riddlers of Nysalor.

In Seshnela, the priests of Nysalor apparently spread poison, or an unhealable disease, and offered healing and protection from it, thereby getting people to worship Nysalor.

Arkat saw and showed that Nysalor had a duality, that he wasn’t just a benevolent god who illuminated people and taught them a different way of thinking, he exposed the deity behind these priests as the Chaos God Gbaji. Arkat made it his life quest to slay Gbaji and free the world from the great Deceiver.

(Much of Arkat’s earliest activities are mentioned in the list of the Kings of Seshnela on the Well of Daliath to greater detail than in the Guide to Glorantha, where p.410 gives details about Arkat’s deeds in Seshnela.)

Skipping far ahead, eventually Arkat managed to invade Dorastor, the homeland of Nysalor, and slew the enemy god atop the Tower of Miracles in the City of Dreams. He supposedly dismembered Nysalor and had its parts scattered and buried around Glorantha.

However, slaying a god doesn’t come easy, and Arkat looked into heroquesting at various points. He brought the Unbreakable Sword with him, the original Death, to enable him to slay a god.

Supposedly when he was on one of his heroquests, he encountered himself as a troll and was wounded by himself, an unhealable wound that he carried with him for his entire life that caused him discomfort.

Also, Arkat is known to have mapped out the Gods’ Realm to enable passage for him, which explains how he ended up so ridiculously powerful.

Before he actually went to slay Nysalor, he underwent the Rite of Rebirth and became one of the Uzuz (the Mistress Troll Race).

There are various pieces of art depicting Arkat as an armoured troll fighting Nysalor.

Once Arkat had killed Nysalor, he created the Autarchy, a.k.a. Stygian Empire, in Ralios and modern Seshnela. Ralios lies west of Dragon Pass, south of Dorastor.

The capital of the Autarchy was Arkhome (on the Nidan river in Rindland, a portion of the ancient Ralian territory of Fornoar now belonging to the modern Kingdom of Seshnela. See the political map on p.417 in the Guide to Gloranha. It was the place where Harmast emerged with Arkat on his first Lightbringer’s Quest.)

Arkat eventually pulled a Thanos move and retired, his work done.

The destruction of Nysalor ended the Dawn Age, making Arkat sort of responsible for starting the cycle of Ages in Glorantha’s History.

Ludo picks up the Thanos comparison and also brings up Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now as another powerful archetype resembling Arkat.

Ludo recapitulates how Nysalor became the god of the Bright Empire, spreading a philosophy of participation and harmony, but on its fringes Arkat figured out that missionaries from the Empire were causing the problems that they professed to solve, resulting in Arkat vowing to destroy Nysalor’s Empire.

In order to do that, he initiated into a series of cults and religions.

(Ludo fails to mention his origins as a Child of the Forest, a bucolic existence in the forest like the happy end for Morag from Biturian’s travelogue, and his illumination experience there.)

Arkat was “initiated” into the Horali caste (his grandfather’s caste) on Brithos, the warrior caste of ancient Malkionism.

Then he moved on to the (Seshnegi-style) Hrestoli Man-of-All, mastering all of the Malkioni castes, and all the power, including sorcery,

Then he went on and became friendly with the Orlanthi, initiating into Orlanth, and then Humakt.

Then he needed anti-Chaos powers and became a troll (through the Ritual of Rebirth, initiating him to Kyger Litor) and joined Zorak Zoran for his final assault on Dorastor.

Arkat basically multiclassed like crazy, making him the ultimate mini-maxer in Ludo’s eyes.

Jörg counters that Arkat’s spiritual experiences resembled serial monogamy – whatever cult Arkat joined, he joined with all his being.

Ludo counter-argues that Arkat kept all the powers, and Bud claims that the reason for that was that Arkat was illuminated. Bud claims that this was due to the illuminates’ immunity to Spirits of Reprisal that would otherwise plague an apostate.

Jörg argues that the benefit of Illumination is rather a compartmentalization of the illuminate’s personality.

Bud continues that Arkat essentially ploughed roughshot over multiple cults, his aim being to accumulate as much power as he could to destroy Nysalor, and that Arkat was right, be cause he did it. (Which is questioned by Jorg.)

Bud feels that this is where Your Glorantha May Vary falls down slightly, when unlike the fluidity of the God Time, things go into the historical record.

What went on atop the Tower of Dreams? Nobody knows, nobody else was there. But everything else is part of the historical record, there are records of Arkat becoming a troll, the whole thing was written down by a troll who witnessed the event (and can be read in the Jonstown Compendium excerpt on trolls provided by the RQ3 Troll Gods box if you are lucky enough to own it).

Bud acknowledges historical bias, but unlike the Gods Age where you can see things from different perspectives – how many versions of the Lightbringers’ Quest are there? – but when it is viewing things from the historical record, that’s really all you got to go off.

Jörg claims that the thing about the Gbaji Wars was a clash of realities.

His personal pet theory is that whenever Arkat looked in the direction of Nysalor, he saw Gbaji, Whenever Nysalor looked in the direction of Arkat, he saw Gbaji, the chaotic Deceiver God.

What Nysalor did (or what actually his creators from the Second Council and Dara Happa did using the Pseudocosmic Egg) was to create a new reality where everything was bright and shiny and harmonious (at least once the dissenting voices of the Heortling Orlanthi and the trolls and dragonewts had been muted), and Arkat was born on the other side of this effect. Arkat brought his anti-Nysalor effect with him, and so realities clashed whenever the forces of Nysalor and of Arkat met.

Jörg draws a comparison to the Glowline (which separates a magical reality full of Lunar glow from the drab mundane reality outside) because the Glowline is a bit of a copy of this Bright Empire thing. (Jörg fails to mention the Young Elementals from the Seven Mothers write-up as his evidence.)

Bud demands to expand that a little more, since the Glowline is something everyone can see (at least on days of the Dark Moon when it makes a difference). Jörg mentions the Dan Barker illustration in the Guide p.724 which shows Arkat and Nysalor, with different skin tones and expressions but otherwise identical faces (or at least beard styles).

Ludo explains how this series of cultic initiations let Arkat experience a lot of “safe” (re-enacted) cult heroquests and gave him a unique experience of arriving at the same God Time events from different quests (including the one where Zorak Zorani Arkat wounded Hrestoli or Horali Arkat).

Arkat was the first heroquester who voluntarily went off-script in his heroquesting, exploring the hero plane seeing connected paths and creating a map.

Arkat greatly innovated the art of heroquesting.

Jörg compares a heroquest to a medieval road map which only shows one linear journey where you reach intermediate spots where you could go elsewhere, leading to your initial target.

Arkat would have followed two (or more) separate heroquests to a Hero Plane location (a Godtime event) and he would have known where both paths leading there came from, and where he could continue from that station.

Ludo compares Arkat’s method to a hex crawl across the hero plane.

Bud offers a different term than off-script: Arkat got to go back-stage, also getting an insight how all of this worked.

Ludo brags about his ChaosiumCon playtest glimpse of the ever-upcoming heroquesting rules for RuneQuest. Bud (jokingly) rejects the notion that such a thing exists.

Ludo goes on to describe how those rules have techniques reminiscent of the sorcery techniques in RQG, techniques like Ranging. Arkat developed these techniques, and later the God Learners put names on them.

Ludo talks about the relationship between Arkati heroquesting and God Learner heroquesting.

Bud points out that a lot what the God Learners did was based on Arkat’s work anyway.

Ludo mentions Arkat’s very specific philosophy that all heroquesting was to be “with respect and humility”.

Apparently, Arkat set up a heroquesting police that was basically patrolling the hero plane and slapping the fingers of any transgressors.

Jörg and Bud point out that the Arkati presence more often manifests as stationary guardians.

Ludo goes on to compare the God Learner heroquesters with Mad Scientists (TM) who got whatever they wanted and destroyed many of the remaining Arkati stationary guardians, exploring the Hero Plane without any ethics.

Ludo imagines playing a Dark Empire heroquesting game where you are the guardians, something Jörg compares to the Time Police. Bud adds that these police would make sure that you don’t mess with reality too much, but that’s the problem. The God Learners effectively wiped these guardians out and made the hero plane their playground.

Jörg points out that when you enter the hero plane these days, you will still find the black guardians at all the major crossings, suggesting that the God Learners failed to eradicate them all.

Ludo approves of their presence for games set in the 1625 era,

Bud claims that the problem about the God Learners is that there isn’t all that much written about them. Bud wanted to do a video about them and was stopped by the scarcity of material.

Probably several times, but very prominently involuntarily so when Palangio the Iron Vrok killed and dismembered him in Ralios around 418 S.T. Arkat was sent to a special Hell he could not use his heroic powers to escape from, which since has become a tradition to do to the big bad anti-illumination guy.

That Hell was supposed to be inaccessible, but an Orlanthi hero by the name of Harmast Barefoot managed to get him back.

Arkat had basically two lives. (The Xeotam Dialogue in the Sourcebook p.74 calls this state of being a Kaelith.)

Bud points out that Arkat having been dismembered is what he went on to do with Nysalor. Ludo asks whether that was petty, but Bud calls that the ultimate revenge.

Jörg brings up dismemberment as a proven method to get rid of a god – citing the dismemberment of Umath even before the discovery of Death as proof for the efficiency of the method.

Ludo philosophizes that a lot of people get dismembered in Glorantha, which Bud counters with the predilection of people to lose their left legs in (RuneQuest) Glorantha.

Ludo points out that Arkat had fifty years of fighting, and then fifty years of peaceful retirement, during which he sets up the Autarchy (called Stygian Empire by its foes). He spends those years teaching his secrets and benevolently overseeing the lands without much interference.

Bud replies Ludo’s question about the fate of the Autarchy that it fell in the end, to the forces of the God Learners (during the reign of Annmak Peacemaker, in 740 S.T.)

Jörg points out that the Dark Empire was the premier Malkioni (and Orlanthi, and troll) realm in Genertela. It ruled over the entire Tanisor valley (the land ironically called Kingdom of Seshnela in the Third Age) and Safelster, with the capital Arkhome situated in Rindland, the home Duchy of Bailifes the Hammer who founded the new Kingdom of Seshnela.

Jörg nerdplains that Autarchy roughly translates from Greek as Self-Rule, and that that was what he allowed the local potentates to do, the Archons who were basically his disciples who kept oversight over some of those places.

The term Archon still is used for the rulers of Safelster, where a city-state might also be called an Archonate.

Fast-forwarding to the Now of RQG (i.e. 1625 ST), what is the legacy that Arkat left behind?

Bud quips that there is one less god. Or at least Nysalor required a lot of patching together by the Red Goddess, as Ludo points out. Which Bud compares to a jigsaw puzzle with too many parts.

Jörg puts forward that Gbaji was dismembered at the same time as Nysalor, who was cut into 49 parts which the Lunars collected. When the Lunars collected the parts, they ended up with more than 50, and they made sure that they weren’t using any portion of Gbaji when re-assembling Nysalor.

Bud asks whether the Lunars could differentiate between the portions of Nysalor and Gbaji, and Jörg suggests that the Lunars know about Chaos, so he gueses they could. They say so.

Ludo corroborates that when the Lunar propaganda says so, it is probably true. Right?

There are still followers of Black Arkat active on the hero planes, doing things to heroquesters, and (on the mundane plane) to people they suspect of Godlearnerism.

These Arkati can pop up and jinx your heroquests, or even your preparations for those.

Jörg manages to confuse Arkat’s Last Fortress near Kartolin Pass (crossing from Ralios into Dorastor) with Arkat’s Hold in Esrolia, the city at the end of the Building Wall.

Ludo points to The Smoking Ruins which has information and stats on some Black Arkati from that place.

Bud points out that Arkat was in his seventies when he became a troll. Bud ponders whether Arkat underwent the Ritual of Rebirth because trolls are longer-lived than humans.

Jörg counters that Arkat was born as a Brithini, a race that doesn’t age when they maintain their caste restrictions (something Arkat definitely did not do), and age slowly if they did.

Bud mentions the years of war wearing down on Arkat, and his unhealable wound from that heroquest. By normal standards, Arkat would have been an old man yet unable to fulfill his life quest (writing this feels strange the day after the coronation of King Charles III), although by Brithini standards he was still a young man (according to Jörg just about initiation age, really).

Another aspect of Arkat is that as an Illuminate, he should have known better than to pursue his revenge so relentlessly. When you’re illuminated, you understand that Chaos is not always bad.

Jorg interjects that that is why some people claim that Arkat became a Chaos monster in the end in order to overcome Nysalor. Bud asks for citations, Jörg points out that no witnesses survived. (This could be inferred from the upcoming five-fold return of Arkat in Safelster, in the boxed text on p.385 in the Guide to Glorantha.)

Bud reports that the argument has been made that Arkat never became a troll, casting doubt on the reliability of the troll witness of his Ritual of Rebirth. Bud admits that when Arkat returned from his fight atop the Tower of Dreams, he was no longer a troll.

Jörg brings up another pet theory of his, that Arkat might have become a Kitori shape-shifter (in addition to joining the cults of Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran), the adoptive species imitating the Only Old One capable of taking human, troll and dehori (darkness spirit) shape.

Ludo admits that Arkat did ally with the Only Old One in the Shadowlands, and that he might have picked up a trick or two there. Which would be also more multiclassing, as Bud remarks.

Jörg points out that after the Gbaji Wars, the Kitori were collectively called Arkati by the Orlanthi (at least in History of the Heortling People p.72).

We digress about the Hillbilly nature of Orlanthi, and that an argument (which is what you get when you bring two or more Orlanthi together) might the best collective name for a bunch of Orlanthi (much like a Murder of Crows).

Ludo steers the conversation back to illumination, pointing out that Nysalor was illuminated too. (Cart before the horse, really, as Nysalor was the source for that form of Illumination.)

Ludo is getting more vibes of Anarchy vs. Law/Order than of anti-Chaos vs. Chaos. He feels that the two enemies had opposed philosophies and politics about what to do with the continent of Genertela, with one making everything yellow and bright with great cities and laws and imposed order, and Arkat demanding that everybody should rule themselves (making him the ultimate punk).

Bud mentions his Illumination explanatory video and says that that is the argument against Illumination, and that the Red Goddess is taking the blame for adhering to a difference between Draconic and Nysalorean illumination (which is what the Red Goddess is spreading). Bud claims that when dragons become illuminated, they leave Glorantha, whereas when Nysaloreans achieve illumination, they stay around and use their power of illumination to build up more power, whereupon the universe creates an opposite power, and that where Nysalor was the action, Arkat was the reaction.

Jörg brings up the Nysalor quote “At the Edge of Light, there is always Darkness” as his reaction to learning about the spreading of the disease in Seshnela. Bud quips that that sounds like equivalent of “thoughts and prayers”.

Ludo thinks the dragons have the right idea, but Jörg cannot help to mention that the only dragon he remembers to have left the world was Obduran the Flyer, the only EWF Orlanthi who became a (full) dragon.(Details in History of the Heortling Peoples, p.44, 803 S.T,)

Back on topic, Ludo asks how to put Arkat into your RQG games.

Bud suggests that Chaosium should do an epic campaign, based on the idea that the Lunars put Nysalor back together, and then having Arkat return and deal with it.

Jörg mentions that he contributed to a game like that, the 1995 Freeform Rise of Ralios, a follow-up to Reaching Moon Megacorp’s 1994 How the West Was One, with the core idea that the five prophesied Arkats return.

Ludo asks whether that means that there were five aspects of Arkat coming back from the hero plane, like a troll Arkat etc.,

Ludo points out that when you are illuminated, Chaos is not necessarily bad, and a Chaos Monster Arkat could be useful.

Bud brings up that Arkat defeated the Crimson Bat at one point, and Jörg elaborates that it might have been called the Purple Bat before, a death demon of Rinliddi which Arkat flayed, which is how it became Crimson.

After taking a moment’s pause, Bud calls Arkat a bad-ass.

Bud asks whether there is any other hero in Gloranthan history who has accomplished what Arkat has accomplished. Jörg proposes Sheng Seleris. Bud complains that Sheng was killed, but Jörg replies that so was Arkat. We quibble about stars lost and returning.

Ludo points out that Arkat was liberated by the Lightbringers Quest, and then gives a metaplot spoiler that Argrath is expected to liberate Sheng Seleris with his Lightbringers’ Quest.

Jörg calls Argrath Arkat the Liberator. Ludo rambles on that much like Harmast being an Orlanthi hero performing a Lightbringers’ Quest liberating Arkat from Hell, Argrath is an Orlanthi hero prophesied to liberate Sheng Seleris from Hell, claiming that history repeats itself. Whether because of cycles of cosmic significance or because the designers run out of ideas Ludo doesn’t know.

Ludo points out that Arkat’s story was among the first Gloranthan pieces written by Greg, with the protagonist still called Argat, which only later morphed into Arkat, with the similarity of Argrath (both names meaning “Liberator”) intentional.

Jörg points out that Greg’s Glorantha at the time did not yet know Dragon Pass, When Greg decided to publish his Glorantha stories not as books but as a series of games, he took his character Arkat and put him in that board game called White Bear and Red Moon by a slightly different name.

Ludo stubbornly tries to steer us back towards how to use Arkat in your games.

One possibility might be the presence of pieces of Nysalor (or Gbaji) still lying around in some hiding places, as McGuffins for scenarios, claiming that Arkat might even have taken Nysalor’s own monsters and set them up as guardians of those bits.

Bud interjects that that implies that Nysalor was a thing of Chaos, and he says he wasn’t. Ludo refuses to be Deceived.

Now Bud admits that some say that it was Gbaji who walked away from the Tower of Dreams that day, but Ludo wants to delay talking about the crazy conspiracy theories a little longer.

Ludo points towards Safelster, where each city state may be the guardian of some pocket or snippet of Arkati knowledge, giving way to some sort of secret society/spy game shenanigans, whether in Safelster or carried into the Hero Wars in and around Dragon Pass.

Bud asks whether anybody knows where Arkat was buried. Jörg suggests near Arkhome, but draws a blank whether his body was buried, whether he was cremated, or whether Arkat ascended bodily. After all, Sartar did not leave a body behind, either.

Ludo suggests that he may have asked his followers do dismember his body after he left, hiding them away, and maybe that were some of the extra bits the Lunars found, so that they now have a Frankenstein Nysalor that may contain certain amounts of Arkat, making a Voltron illuminated god.

Jörg suggests that alternatively Arkat may have had a troll burial, becoming a funerary feast.

Bud ominously says “he exists within trolls” (and at least Jörg can hear the idea of hyena skins being sewn together transferred to Arkat and Mistress Race stomachs).

Ludo rambles about the fact that while Arkat ascended as a god, the God Learners installed locks that prevent people from contacting the hero in the God Plane.

Ludo correctly points out that there are still people maintaining these God Learner locks (check out the last paragraph on p.415 in the Guide, the city of Harsad near the ruins of Arkhome). This cripples all the many surviving (or resurrected) Arkati cults that claim they got Arkat’s power. Jörg points out that the greatest of the God Learners, Halwal, who had turned against his compatriots, had attempted to re-unite and return a single Arkat, and even he failed (which may be why he and his opponent Yomili ended up mutually eliminating not just themselves but many of their allies and foes, polluting the region of the Red Ruins to this day).

Ludo explains that when he gets his players into heroquesting, he plans to give them some God Learner or Arkati obstacles. Bud points out that there is supposedly a God Learner alive, as a prisoner of Ralzakark receiving daily torture.

Ludo states that whenever you see something phrased as a rumor, it will be true in somebody’s version of Glorantha.

Jörg repeats the slander that Belintar was a God Learner.

Ludo drops a spoiler for Andrew Logan Montgomery’s Company of the Dragon where your heroquesting players might come across a God Learner who got lost on the hero plane, without any idea how much Time has passed in the mundane world.

Jörg points out that Nick Brooke’s Scenario Duel at Dangerford has a Humakti guardian who might be sort of an Arkati heroquesting guard.

Bud proposes that the Arkati guardians at thresholds in the Hero Plane might not be guarding with death as the alternative. He brings up the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant as having a possible parallel to the Arkati hero plane guardians, as Guardians who aren’t there to necessarily stop you but to prevent you from stumbling into things you aren’t prepared for yet.

And then the God Learners found ways of bypassing a lot of them, which is one of the crimes they committed.

Jörg mentions that one of the guardians removed by the God Learners was a raccoon, the Raccoon Guardian of Tusunimmi Ford, causing some hilarity when telling the story and mis-attributing it (not Cults of Terror, but the Glorantha Book of the RQ3 Genertela Box and subsequently the Guide p.136). Bud’s observation that this sounds like a pipe dream might be accurate given the work environment at The Chaosium at the time this was written.

Glorantha can be more than a bit gonzo, at the same time being this down-to-earth Bronze Age fantasy thing.

Bud declines to be first responder to Ludo’s demand for crazy conspiracy theories.

Jörg puts forward that Argrath is Arkat the Liberator, and his Lightbringer’s Quest liberating Sheng is also a way of paying back the cosmic karma to Harmast liberating Arkat.

Ludo asks whether that means that the other four of the five returning Arkats could be player characters, and Jörg agrees. (Played and tested in the 1995 run of Rise of Ralios.)

Jörg suggests that there will be more than five such people claiming to be Arkat. All of them KNOW they are the real deal, but several will be proven to be false.

Ludo’s theory involves the motives of the Second Council awakening Nysalor – to bring Harmony between Glorantha and the Void. Arkat ruined that chance of reconciliation.

Bud asks about the runes of Nysalor. There is definitely light (fire without the dot in the center, aka a circle).

Ludo brags about his brand-new copy of the Prosopaedia for Cults of RuneQuest that he brought back from ChaosiumCon and looks it up. It is Light and Mastery, and there is neither Harmony nor Chaos nor Moon.

Ludo (jokingly?) comes to the conclusion that the Prosopaedia was written by biased people and suggests to ignore it.

Bud finally comes clear that his theory is that Arkat was defeated on the Tower of Dreams, and that Gbaji deceived everybody by pretending he was Arkat, and walking away. That would also make Gbaji the founder of the Autarchy, the Heroquesting police, etc.

One “proof” is that Arkat no longer looked like a troll when he left.

When Ludo casts doubt – after all most that Arkat did afterwards was to settle down on a farm – Jörg suggests that that’s what THEY tell you. Bringing up pluripresence, Jörg states that One of Them (Them being Arkat, or Gbaji) went to Arkhome and settled down,

Bud suggests that that would have been the ultimate deception for Gbaji the Deceiver, deception for deception’s sake, but when Jörg suggests that deceiving everybody possibly included deceiving himself, Bud thinks that is going too far.

Ludo comes forward with another theory – Arkat did win, but only because Nysalor wanted him to win, to dismember him and spread him around all over the known world. Bud objects that the Red Goddess was not illuminated by the body parts of Nysalor but by the spirit of the god in Hell.

Jörg’s suggestion that the dismemberment of Nysalor could be seen as a version of utuma is rejected by Ludo, who wants to have some clear distinction between these two ways towards enlightenment.

Jörg points out that the core point of draconic enlightenment is to make True Dragons out of neotenic dragons, and that human adaptation of that has always resulted in strange things.

Bud refers to Company of the Dragon which has Andrew Logan Montgomery’s essay on draconic illumination, with dragonewts having problems to wake up to draconic reality while dragons spend their time sleeping before finally ascending.

This segues into what kind of illumination did Arkat have.

Jörg dodges this by tracking back where Arkat supposedly received his illumination, giving the aldryami of Brithos as the source, asking what kind they would have had.

Bud goes back into the Godtime, where Rashoran (an aspect or jigsaw piece of the reconstituted Red Goddess) was the source of all illumination. Jörg claims that Rashoran was effectively Nysalor pre-born, or that Nysalor was the reincarnation of Rashoran.

We discuss Rashoran’s credentials (illuminated Chalana Arroy and Humakt, illuminated the Unholy Trio who then killed Rashoran and created the Devil) and his role in the birth of the Red Goddess.

Bud wants to argue that if Rashoran was the earlier version of the Red Goddess, then Nysalorean illumination really is Lunar illumination, whereas Jörg insists that Lunar illumination is Nysalorean illumination. Which one was first, the hen or her egg?

Jörg agrees that the Lunars say that Rashoran was an incarnation of the Red Goddess, and that we know that what the Lunars say is true. They would never deceive us.

In reaction to this riddle, Bud spurts that if the Lunars know that Chaos is not necessarily a bad thing, then it doesn’t matter if their reconstituted Nysalor contained bits of Gbaji, and that their claims of being able to discern what was what was a deception.

Jörg calls that out as vile slander, and probably true.

In this huddle of confusion, bad puns and talking nonsens, we realize that we have reached the targeted length of this episode, and give Bud another chance to promote his presence on the interwebs.

Any further shenanigans (or pre-show banter) are not subject of this transcript.

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.

After a hiatus last month we are back with another Glorantha Initiation episode in which we interview a newcomer to the tribe. This time, Ludo is by himself due to some scheduling issue with Joerg (it was Ludo’s fault), interviewing Michael Bernth.

Michael lives in Europe’s first… no, second (probably?) happiest country. He is a multi-skilled designer (among other things) so if you’re working on a Jonstown Compendium book, he might be able to help with some InDesign layout work!

In this episode we talk about:

…and more!

The intro music is “Dancing Tiger” by Damscray. The outro music is “Islam Dream” by Serge Quadrado. Other audio is from the FreeSound library.

We resume our series on the People of Glorantha with, according to our guest, the very best people that there is on Glorantha. Our guest is indeed Nick Brooke!

Among his many hats, Nick is:

We talk about Nick’s history with the Lunar Empire, which starts with David Hall’s Reaching Moon Megacorp and the fanzine Tales of the Reaching Moon, which had a very pro-Lunar editorial leaning. This was perhaps in response to the Storm Bull leanings of the Pavic Tales fanzine.

Nick talks about the way British people are great for playing evil imperial people. He points to the 2022 RRR movie, although Ludo points out that the practice goes way back, with for instance Ben Hur specifically hiring British actors to play evil Romans.

While players are concerned with Dragon Pass adventurers, the GM often wants to understand the Lunar Empire better, at least to portray the evil NPCs. But Nick reminds us that it’s all just a game in a make believe world, and there’s no need to get upset online. Given the number of threads on the topic that routinely get locked down on BRP Central and elsewhere, I’m sure more people need to hear this.

We go through the core RuneQuest homelands and Nick explains what is their knowledge and opinion of the Lunars is.

For Sartarites and Praxians:

For Esrolians:

For the Grazelanders:

For the Old Tarshites:

For the Lunar Tarshites:

Nick takes us on a historical tour of the Lunar Empire:

The Lunar Empire’s current concerns are:

The Lunar Empire is organized between the Heartlands and the Provinces:

We take a closer look at the Seven Mothers cult, which isn’t very well explained in the RuneQuest rulebook, and might be hard to grasp:

Joerg brings up the Dart Competitions, the Lunar Empire’s sanctioned way of doing spy operations and assassinations between nobles

Unlike the bickering of Orlanthi clans and tribes, these can’t interfere with the general population and the collection of taxes.

There is no “civil war” in Tarsh. Just people losing the ongoing Dart Competition.

We go through a few possible backstories for a Seven Mothers initiate joining a party of Dragon Pass adventurers:

Nick brings up the topic of Chaos and then tries to run away from the podcast:

Ludo asks about Illumination:

Finally, Nick does a mic-drop by reading the Guide to Glorantha, giving the final summation of what the Lunar Empire is.

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.

This episode starts with Jörg pronouncing our guest’s name wrongly! We welcome James Coquillat of Chaosium to talk about RuneQuest actual play and gamemastering.

James is both on the digital content team and on the editorial team for Call of Cthulhu. You can find James at the following online places:

James tells us about his gaming and professional career. AD&D 2nd edition, Call of Cthulhu, screenwriting turning into video game production, and finally changing over into tabletop RPG production. Living in Melbourne brought him into contact with Michael O’Brien aka “MOB” (Chaosium’s vice president), Mark Morrison (Chaosium community embassador and part of the awesome Campaign Coins), and other notables from the Down Under roleplaying community. From there to Chaosium was not a big step.

James’s first work for Chaosium was helping with the translation of Khan of Khans. And while that is a Gloranthan game, it took some diving into the Chaosium back catalogue to familiarize himself with RuneQuest and Glorantha.

RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha was the first experience of both the game system and the world through play.

Ludo asks how much Gloranthan knowledge James had accumulated when he had the courage to present both the system and the setting publicly.

James explains that, to the folks at Chaosium (many of whom have been involved since before there were the Tales of the Reaching Moon in the early nineties), he fits into the demographic of young new players and GMs that they want to target with the new edition of RuneQuest. This is one reason why he was chosen to run the game between himself and his colleague David Naylor, who is a player in the RuneQuest stream along with Bridgett Jeffries, who we interviewed recently.

Jörg asks about how much James profits from the interviews with Jeff Richard (Chaosium’s vice president, creative director, and Glorantha lead designer). James confesses to have led the discussion towards upcoming features in his game every now and then.

Asked about his stumbling blocks with RuneQuest and Glorantha, James describes how coming from the typical Tolkienesque fantasy in most fantasy roleplaying games made the encounter with Glorantha something of a new territory. It was weird to encounter these tropes from the early days of the hobby. The beastmen were strange, not just the ducks but also creatures like scorpionmen or anthropomorphized animals. Chaos was a concept that was different from previous experiences.

To understand the big opponents of the Sartarites, James used the advice to think of the Lunars like the Roman Empire, and of the Praxian beast riders like the Mongol hordes invading Europe. Ludo commiserates that long-time Gloranthaphiles tend to use historical parallels that you may never have heard about before, like e.g. Thracians.

Another stumbling block for James was the multitude of gods that would pop up in the gaming material and the lore.

When asked whether James got to play RuneQuest Glorantha before running it, he explains that he was the GM for his local group.

As a long time Call of Cthulhu player and contributor James was familiar with the Basic Roleplaying system that was based on the original RuneQuest. Features specific to RuneQuest, like the different success levels or Strike Ranks, were alien and needed to get used to.

David Naylor gets another shout-out as being a great GM’s assistant (looking up rules on the fly when needed), and also for running the technical side of the streams.

Ludo asks where to get advice as a new GM if you don’t happen to be able to call Chaosium old-timers like Jeff or MOB. James suggests to start really small, isolating the initial setting enough so that the lore of the greater world is not yet required.

Jörg asks what material James used when he started GMing RuneQuest (for his friends). James started with the core rule books, but things came together when he got his hand on the Starter Set material (before it was published, as James and Dave designed the solo adventure in Book 3 of the Starter Set).

James describes how Dave and he had submitted a scenario for RuneQuest to Chaosium, which had gone through editorial feedback (and which was pending publication) before getting tasked with creating the Starter Set’s solo-adventure. Part of James and Dave’s approach was to make sure that the solo-adventure would work online as well.

James points out that the designers being relatively new to Glorantha was considered an advantage for creating the first contact for many players with both the rules and the setting.

Jörg asks about the ceremonies in the Starter Set’s SoloQuest which do require quite a bit of familiarity with the background, but those resulted from James and Dave rather than direct demands by the editors.

James talks about the feedback he got from his playtesters in his gaming group, including one player whose SoloQuest run ended in the protagonist dying in the decisive combat against Vostor after a long iteration of combat rolls, leading to another mechanic inserted to bring such a gridlock to a narratively pleasing end. That player ended up playing Vostor in the Starter Set scenarios!

James talks about his two previous GMing experiences. The first one was about a village facing the demands of both a Lunar tax collector and a Praxian warband, each demanding half the year’s production (which obviously could not be satisfied for both). The other one was more experimental, riffing on the Apocalypse Now upriver journey into hostile territory. Jörg remembers MOB’s scenario “Hut of Darkness” from Tales of the Reaching Moon which uses the same inspiration.

Ludo shifts the topic to the evolution of the shelves behind James in his videos. James talks about his growing collection, and shares how he moved three times during his work on the Chaosium YouTube channel. One time he dismantled and re-populated the shelf at a new home between a Sunday Call of Cthulhu recording and a Tuesday RuneQuest recording.

Ludo talks about his appreciation of the A New Hero stream and feels empowered by seeing James struggle with some of the crunch of the system while James still keeps the game flow. James talks about dealing with the crunch, again by keeping it focused, with deeper dives delayed while applying the principles of Maximum Game Fun and Your Glorantha Will Vary to the current game.

The New Hero stream doesn’t use published scenarios but uses original adventures. James explains that each of the streams has a focus on one specific product in the game line, and that would be the core rules book after having played the Starter Set scenarios on the previous stream.

The first theme would be the clan rivalry, and feedback from Jeff Richard suggested Greenstone as a suitable starting point for that kind of setting. Greenstone has one of the most important Earth temples in Sartar, which gave a logical backdrop for the characters’ backstory. The proximity of the Upland Marsh and its undead led to a follow-up on that theme, and so on.

Ludo asks about the sources used to research the region. James lists his sources, which included the Guide to Glorantha, the RuneQuest Glorantha Bestiary, the RuneQuest wiki, and the fan-maintained (and often not quite correct) Glorantha wiki for a general overview and for an idea what specifics to look up, and then using his access to the previously published material on the setting.

Ludo points out that the Bestiary is a lot more than just a catalogue of monsters: it also contains a significant amount of world-building, worth a read-through rather than just skimming for single monster stats.

As the only grognard in the podcast, Jörg cannot help but reminisce his experience playing in a Freeform set in the Greenstone region around the time the current tribes were formed, and how the rivals of the resident Orleving clan were the first presentation of clan life in Sartar in the RuneQuest 3rd edition Genertela box, still available in the free collection called “HeroQuest Voices“. These are in-world instructions to young adults in the various cultures and regions of Glorantha. They are excellent as player-facing hand-outs to get an idea about the setting. The individual content is available for download at the bottom of this page.

When asked for advice to get started, James first points to the online version of the Starter Set SoloQuest.

James’ next tip is that the new GM should select the pre-generated characters in the Starter Set that they feel comfortable with, and offer that selection to the players as the group composition will be influential on the style of the game.

James suggests to take the Strike Rank system not so much as a fixed turn order but just as an aid to determine who goes first after all the actions have been announced.

James then suggests that, to get a feel for the style of the setting, look at the real-world inspirations for cults, like ascetic monks for Humakt or fertility goddess and rites for Ernalda. Also look at the religions and try to make sense of interactions and parallels. Just asking whether it is coincidence that there are seven Lightbringers and Seven Mothers can lead to insights, for instance, and comparing it to the Roman re-interpretations of Greek mythology in their own pantheon.

Ludo asks about the Session Zero and determining the style and orientation of the campaign. James talks about setting the mood of the game (like leaving silly jokes at the door for a game of the Alien RPG), along with extra demands when running a game on a public stream. For the New Hero stream, they initially kept it small and focused, while for the Starter Set stream they would just jump in to get the general experience.

Jörg asks about the players derailing the original ideas for the session, and James tells about a whole subplot that was avoided by the players involving a fight against zombies inside a horse stable with horses trapped, and then centaurs coming to the rescue. That did not happen, and neither did the players return to a village on the edge of the Marsh to get more information on the undead, leaving a whole set of small subplots unplayed.

Ludo asks about personal favourite and least favourite aspects of the setting. James starts with confessing his love for the ducks of Glorantha, a concept that initially seemed alien, 1970ish, but resonating with his love for Duck Tales and an early tabletop roleplaying experience with a DIY game called Duckromancer (not the commercially available game by the same name, but a game where you play ducks and have skills like Duckplomacy and other puns galore). He also likes the Mostali, thanks to exposure to an enthusiastic fan at a convention. Stuff James enjoyed less were the big spanning political story arches as those are hard to make a connection with for new players unfamiliar with these struggles.

Ludo talks about how GMs coming from Call of Cthulhu are used to deal with rather ordinary people being tossed into stuff way beyond their pay grades, and how they (might) return from their adventure still as normal folk rather than big heroes. Switching to stories where the player characters are expected to be or become recognized heroes means a change in narrative style. James mentions how his academic background as a screenwriter ingrained all the narratological story-telling tropes, which mean that the hero emerges from a community, and at the end of the hero’s journey returns to that community.

We close the interview with our usual silly questions, like the favourite steed (bolo lizard), favourite culture (Orlanthi over Lunar or Praxian, with Sartar on the Praxian border possibly the ideal mixture), favourite cult (Humakt for the swords and asceticism, Urox the Storm Bull for the bad-ass boisterous guys), trollkin or ducks (ducks, of course), scorpionmen or undead (undead), favourite undead villain (Delecti over Brangbane), most interesting character homeland (Lunar Tarsh), and favourite runes (Death, Water, Truth, Fire).

The intro music is “The Warbird” by Try-Tachion. Other music includes “Cinder and Smoke” and “Skyspeak“, along with audio from the FreeSound library.