In this episode, David and Sophie unpack the feeding of the 4,000 in Mark’s Gospel and how it echoes and complicates the earlier feeding of the 5,000. Why do the disciples still not get it? Why are they stuck thinking literally when Jesus is inviting them to think symbolically?

We explore what the numbers might mean (5 loaves, 7 baskets), the layers of meaning that never fully exhaust themselves, and Jesus’ pointed warning about the “leaven of the Pharisees and Herod.” What is it about yeast - the tiny agent of transformation or corruption - that makes it such a powerful symbol of spiritual danger?

Join us as we ask: what does it mean to let the symbol speak? And what might we be missing when we stay in surface-level thinking?