Jim's Take

The Joy of Not Knowing (Ep. 112)


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Does anyone remember the time where we didn’t know something and you had to be OK with it? 

Seems like ages ago, or maybe I’m feeling my age. But thanks to the advent and growth of technology, it’s easier than ever to obtain facts. The issue I have with this, is that we may be sacrificing wisdom for convenience. 

The more we know, ironically, drives anxiety. It lessens curiosity. It quashes our desire to learn. Quite frankly, it makes life boring. If we have all the facts available to us, what’s the point in asking questions? 

It’s one thing to know a fact. But you can get facts anywhere. What’s more important, I would argue, is how to think. Reasoning, logic, deduction, interpretation – these are the skill sets that will help us move past just repetition and boredom. 

It’s a focus that will translate well to the workplace. What I come across often in the coaching world is that most people have insecurity and anxiety, and many of them try to cover it by giving advice or spouting facts. But the fact of the matter is, those who embrace their insecurity, ask really good questions and learn to focus on their ability to continue to learn are the best leaders in an organization. 

Solutions will vary – but I’d say a good start is to begin by asking yourself questions, and going deeper beyond just the basic answer. Figuring out a belief system, why you believe things and understanding why others can believe the opposite, is a fun and productive philosophical exercise that will translate over into other areas of your life. 

It’s too strong to say facts are worthless, but without context and understanding, they don’t have multiple legs to stand on. It’s our understanding and interpretation that give facts meaning, and we only understand and interpret through questions. 

Happy week!

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Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here this week. As always, I appreciate your attention and your time, and your listening, and your follows and all of that good stuff. Today we’re talking about the joy of not knowing. That’s right. The joy of not knowing. We don’t need to know all the answers to all of our questions. I was wistfully thinking the other day about how nice it was back in my, my fellow Gen X listeners.
0:28

I’m, I’m at the tail end of Gen X, but I identify with Gen X. I like my Gen X people. Gen X will remember this. Do you remember a time back where you just didn’t know the answer to something and you had to be okay with it? It was almost this freeing kind of . It was, it was so nice to just not know. And we’re, we’re living now in a place where we’re inundated with information.

0:51

We’re inundated with facts. Everybody’s got a fact. Everybody wants to tell you what they know, and they can find the study or statistic that shows it. But without context, the facts are irrelevant. And I’d argue that we’re, we’re sacrificing wisdom and intelligence for the, the idea of just knowing facts that anybody can find when they Google something. And I would argue that the need for reasoning, logic, understanding context, being able to think is far more important as we move forward in the society than it is to just no facts.

1:31

Cause anybody can get facts anywhere. And that’s what I’m gonna talk about today. I’m gonna talk about how knowing everything like we do today, having information on our fingertips is actually driving more anxiety. Anxiety, um, it lessens our curiosity, it impacts our ability to be leaders. I’ll talk about workplace impact and then maybe at the end of this, if I remember, and if I have time, um, and I’m so inclined, I’ll give you some, some tidbits maybe that can help us get thinking about, um, how to think, thinking about how to think rather than, uh, just knowing facts.

2:02

So, um, like I said, I think my gen gen Xers will appreciate this and older, there was that time where, you know, you’d think of something and, and you would just never know it. And the only, you had to take a trip to the library, go through the Dewey decimal system to find some kind of book or an atlas or an encyclopedia to find it out. You actually had to do research.

2:22

And most of the time you’re like, I just don’t care enough to do that. And so it just went away. And that was nice. It was nice. You could focus on more things, more pertinent things, more impressive things, more relationship things. And you just, you didn’t know when your friends were gonna show up. You didn’t know when, uh, you know, your parents were gonna pick you up from the movie theater or anything else.

2:43

You could talk about it in general, uh, in in general context. But we, you know, there was a mystery to it. And there, there was a lot of fun to that. Um, now granted, having information on our fingertips has its benefits. I will say that. But, um, I, I would say we, we have this fake knowledge now of knowing facts. And you could find any fact online. Any fact that you wanna find, you could find it.

3:07

And there’s true facts, and there’s fake facts, and there’s half true facts. And there are, there are facts that are only facts when included with the proper context and . So, so facts. The idea of a fact is, is almost subjective at this point. And so knowing facts, and, and you see this a lot in the coaching industry, um, people who try to present themselves as experts, everybody wants to be an expert.

3:35

Okay? We get this. Everybody wants to be an expert. Everybody wants to be wanted, everybody wants to be intelligent and seen as such. And that’s great. So they spit out knowledge to almost present themselves in this way that they are intelligent. But without context and understanding the context or making it real for people to know how to implement these facts, it’s almost irrelevant. The facts are pointless because it doesn’t change behavior or doesn’t drive home the message you’re trying to drive home.

4:03

It just, you know, it’s this false supporting of some BS statement so that we can present ourselves as experts in some particular type of way. And especially on, you know, you see this on TikTok all the time. I love the psychologists who come out and the psychiatrists and the neuroscientists who say, that’s not what that means, right? To, to correct all these people. Or just say, the hippocampus does this and you, that means you’re gonna do this.

4:27

And, um, it’s such a misinterpretation of, of knowledge, um, to the point where it’s damaging and it, it makes people change behavior in a very negative way. And, and you look ridiculous. I want you to know, you look ridiculous. . Um, there is, ironically, I think the more knowledge we have, the more anxiety we have. Um, ignorance is bliss. I do believe that to a certain extent, there is, uh, a certain bliss of ignorance.

4:57

It’s why when people turn off social media, it’s a cathartic experience. It’s why when people turn off the news, it’s cathartic. Not knowing what’s going on and not being a hermit. I’m not talking about being a hermit, but there’s, there’s a scale of knowledge and information. We’re being inundated with constant ads and information and facts on, on why you need this medication that you didn’t even know you needed. And, uh, let me come in with this article and why you’re doing things wrong.

5:25

You’re shoveling your driveway wrong, and you’re like, what the hell are you talking about? This is ridiculous. So, so the more facts were given, uh, I would say it is impacting us in a very negative way. Um, even right on down to the weather. Do we need to know that the storm’s coming in a week when you’re know, start, say, ruins your week, right? Well, it’s gonna, you know, nice day. Yeah, but it’s gonna rain this weekend, right?

5:48

We can’t enjoy the moment we’re in because we have so much knowledge as to what’s coming down the pike, that, that we actually can’t be present and we can’t enjoy the people that are around us. And it drives this, this type of anxiety. And at the same time, it lessens our curiosity. And we need a sense, you know, I’ve said this before, multiple times. The reason kids are happy is because they’re learning.

6:11

They have this sense of wonder. There are things that are new to them. When we have all these facts, we lose that sense of wonder. We have to have the facts, we have to have the answers. We have to do all this stuff. It drives more anxiety, and we care less. We’re less curious. The last time you got really lost in something, it’s probably because you were curious about it and learning, and you wanted to know a new answer.

6:32

And that’s why we read things, and that’s why we get into things. And that’s why we, you know, I, I speak to so many Gen Z people and say, well, what are you reading right now? They’re like, oh, I, I don’t read books. I don’t read books. Because they have all the facts that they need at their fingertips and what they’re sacrificing. And this isn’t a Gen Z, this isn’t everybody challenge, okay?

6:52

I’m not, I’m not bashing Gen Z. Um, they don’t have to read, right? Because they have all their information. There is a benefit to learning and reading and being curious, and that’s your developing the capacity to think. And that’s what’s so important. We have to develop a capacity for reason. We have to develop a capacity for logic. We can’t just repeat facts. You see this very much in politics, right? Let me tell you why this is so important and why you’re wrong.

7:19

Facts are all about giving somebody, uh, i I bucket facts into this category of just giving advice and for coaches to be good. Again, I’m going back to my coaching. We never give advice. Good coaches never give advice, because advice is just an exercise of feeling superior to somebody else. Telling facts is just this false sense of superiority that we wish to have. And it’s trying to mask our own insecurities and our ability to ask questions.

7:46

We don’t want to be known as someone who doesn’t know, but yet, ironically, the most secure people we know and the most effective leaders we know are those very people who could say, I don’t know the answer to that. Tell me more. Ask me. You know, can I ask more questions? This is really good. Let’s get curious. Let’s dig more. Let’s learn about the logic, the reasoning, the interpretation of this. What can we deduce from all of these facts that we find?

8:10

And how do we make that relevant today? The ability to do, you know, do that cognitive exercise, to do that thinking. That’s what we need to really embrace and drive and, and really look for. And we can only do that when we don’t know. We only have that, that desire to do that. When we don’t know the facts, we don’t know the answers. We don’t stop at just knowing this ridiculous fact here.

8:36

And we say, all right, well, we did our job. We just told everyone how smart we were, and then we can move on. We need to deduce and make things real. Things evolve over time. Facts change over time. Facts change with context, right? You can make the same statement in two separate places. One time it’s true, another time it’s not. And depending on interpretation, that’s one of those big muscles that we really have to learn and drive.

9:01

And, and if we wanna bring this to the workplace, uh, that’s gonna separate the, the adults from the children, your ability to deduce. That’s how you bring value, right? I, I’ve gone through this exercise at a few places, um, depending on the size of your company, right? But I was working at a company or working with a company, had about a thousand employees. I said, if you wanted to get rid of everyone, 200 employees, what would they be doing?

9:30

And they know that they could survive with, you know, one fifth of their employees. They’d be thinking very differently. They’d be doing very different type of work, much more cognitive. And they know those 200 people, they would keep those people who could think, right? That’s gonna be, we’re, we’re not moving to a knowledge economy, right? Or maybe that’s what we’ve got. We’ve got a knowledge economy. A knowledge economy is irrelevant, right?

9:52

We need a thinking economy that’s very, very different, right? You have all the information you could want at your finger fingertips, but what makes you uniquely human is the ability to deduce and think and interpret, right? AI is gonna blow you outta the water of just pulling facts. It’s got mountains amount of facts and can make decisions and do all of these things very quickly based on fact and trends and everything else.

10:17

But to be uniquely humanist, to think and to be cognitive. And that comes from not knowing. That’s where we need to focus. That’s learning mindset, that’s asking really good questions. When we think about our best leaders and the most productive individuals, the people who are creating new things, the people who are bringing value to work, the people who are, uh, creating new processes. And those are the thinkers. They’re not just repeating the way we’ve always done things.

10:45

They’re not repeating, well, this is how it works. This is fact. They can interpret deduce question, ask really good questions, and be really, really curious. If you’ve worked with me. You know, I always talk about the, the question, does anybody know what a real question is? And most people don’t know what a real question is. A question is a request for information where you legitimately do not know the answer, and you want the answer.

11:11

Very, very important to make that distinction of, I’m really curious. Otherwise, it’s just a judgemental statement. And when we’re trying to mask anxiety, when we’re trying to spit facts, when we’re trying to just tell people why they’re wrong, why we’re trying to tell people, uh, advice and say, this is what you should do, and I think you should do that, and this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s our own insecurity.

11:32

It’s, it’s trying to feel superior over other people. Everybody sat in a meeting where somebody asks someone for feedback, they’re very quick to say, well, we can’t do it because of X and we can’t do it because of y. Right? That’s their own insecurity. They never go first to Well, it’s possible, but right? They, they’re never open to that. That’s a stressor. They’re insecure. It’s the first thing that you notice about ineffective leadership is they always tell you why something can’t be done.

12:00

And so not knowing, um, is a blessing. It’s a blessing. I don’t fully appreciate, I I didn’t really fully appreciate the blessing until recently. And the more I’ve been talking about it with people, you know, I don’t watch television. Well, I do a little bit, but not, you know, in, in the other way. Um, it’s nice to not know what’s going on in general. You know, as a matter, I’m still engaged in my community.

12:24

I’ve got my people, I’ve got my clients, I’ve got my family. I, you know, I’m not a hermit, but I don’t need to know everything. Although I do love spitting facts. I do love the random facts. Everybody does. But the reason we love the random facts is because we’ve learned something, right? We say, oh, that’s shocking that I wouldn’t have thought of that. And oh, that’s very interesting. It’s a curiosity thing.

12:46

And we, we tap into our learning and that’s why, why we like to do it. So, um, a few episodes go, I would encourage you to do the believability episode. Listen to the believability episode. If you haven’t done it, that one resonated with a lot of people, because that’s a differentiator in the workplace as well. And that comes from not knowing believability. There’s an authenticity to believability. In order to be believable, you have to build this capacity to be believable.

13:12

It’s not just enough to be authentic, it’s not just enough to know things and how things work. We have to be believable. And we become believable by, by connecting with other people and asking really, really good questions. And then that gives us some credibility. It brings authenticity to say, oh, I don’t know everything, but I can deduce and bring more value to the fact that you actually know that’s real value. And that’s something that we should focus on.

13:37

So what are the solutions? How do we do this? How do we become a person who knows, but doesn’t know a person who is valuable, not knowing everything, but can ask really, really good questions. And that’s, you know, it’s odd. We, we wanna be curious. We wanna know facts are fun, right? I love spitting facts. I love it. Um, I should have prepared some random facts, right? But I’m not, uh, , I didn’t do that for this episode, so I’m sorry.

14:02

But the first one, the way to start is, you know, we have to learn to become philosophical. That’s the first. And we have to, to work on our questions. And so I had asked, you know, what’s the most interesting question you could come up with? And I’m not talking about, you know, does a straw have one or two holes? Um, although those are fun little conversations to have with your people. But what are really, really good questions you could ask yourself about anything that’s going on in your world where you legitimately don’t know the answer and you want to know the answer.

14:33

And if there’s nothing that you want to know the answer to, we have a lot of thinking to do, right? Asking why, why do we do the things we do? That’s part of self discovery, it’s part of personal development, it’s part of everything. And that’s ultimately the meaning of life. The aim of life is self development. Uh, who said that the aim of life is self development. Dorian Gray, Oscar Wild said that Oscar Wild said, I think he did.

14:59

The aim of life is self development. Um, but, but how do we exercise reasoning and logic, our belief system, pure curiosity, just for the purpose of being curious. That is how we become a, a, a proponent of not knowing, not to just get to the end answer. Cuz there are no end answers, right? But how do we continue to exercise this muscle of being curious and asking questions? That’s, we don’t want to be the one who just knows all the answers.

15:28

That’s boring. It’s so boring. Life gets so incredibly boring when you have all the answers. So let’s go find something to be curious about. That’s my advice for the weekend. my advice, I always give advice, um, which is the opposite of what you actually want to do. But that’s my thing when I go for a run, it’s always asking questions. My reasoning, my deducing, why do I think this? Well, if I think this, well what does that mean for this?

15:55

And if I think that, well, what does that mean for this? And what do I believe in all of these questions? It’s, it’s a very heavy exercise. It’s a very difficult one. Uh, but it’s a, it’s an awesome one. It makes life so, so interesting to not know. So let’s get a little exciting. Let’s get a little crazy. Let’s not know something this week and get a little curious. That’s just tons of fun.

16:15

So have a good week. I hope it was helpful. It’s my wistful kind of going back to the, um, I mean, I guess it was late eighties when I was just kind of running around with people and, um, just not knowing anything. Like mid, mid eighties, late eighties, just run around, doesn’t matter. Don’t know anything. Um, but you had a lot of fun and part of it was a maturity cause you’re a kid, right?

16:39

Um, but also it’s, there’s, there’s some credibility to it. So have a great week. Enjoy. Thank you for paying attention. Thank you for your time. And uh, with that, I’ll see you next week. Thanks.

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Jim's TakeBy Jim Frawley, Bellwether

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