Lacey welcomes Yseult and Hannah, the hosts of The Kinswomen, a podcast that cultivates conversations between white people and people of color about race. Yseult and Hannah are also both sober and we hear about their very different paths to how they got there. They talk about the benefits of learning to sit with discomfort and how it serves not only getting and remaining sober but also anti-racism work. They also talk about how they talk about their sobriety with the outside world.