In this episode of Emotional Men, we sit down with Juvenile Court Judge Ryan Peterson to explore a question most people never think to ask:

What is the relationship between justice and forgiveness, and can one exist without the other?

From the courtroom to the therapy room, forgiveness is often treated as a moral obligation or an emotional shortcut. Justice, on the other hand, is frequently framed as cold, punitive, or incompatible with healing. This conversation challenges both assumptions.

Drawing from Judge Peterson’s experience in juvenile court, family law, and child welfare cases, we examine how structure, accountability, and truth-telling can actually make forgiveness possible without forcing it, moralizing it, or erasing harm.

Along the way, we unpack:

• why forgiveness cannot exist in secrecy or shame
• the difference between decisional and emotional forgiveness
• how justice can externalize consequences so victims don’t have to carry them alone
• why “checking the boxes” isn’t the same as real change
• how guilt and shame shape self-forgiveness, addiction, and relapse
• and why forgiveness is not happiness, but may be necessary to reach it

This episode is not about telling people they should forgive.
It’s about understanding what forgiveness actually requires, why it’s a gift rather than an entitlement, and how justice and forgiveness may be two sides of the same coin.

00:00 – Welcome & Introductions

03:00 – Becoming a Judge: From Law Practice to the Bench

07:30 – Why Juvenile Court Is Different

13:15 – What Do We Mean by “Forgiveness”?

17:00 – Acknowledgment, Harm, and the Absence of Ill Will

24:00 – The Expungement Story

28:30 – Forgiveness Is a Gift, Not an Obligation

31:00 – Forgiveness Cannot Exist in the Shadow

33:30 – Decisional vs. Emotional Forgiveness

36:30 – Paying a Debt to Society

39:30 – Can Forgiveness Override Justice?

42:00 – How Judges Define Justice
46:00 – Why We Hand Justice to Institutions

49:30 – Justice and Forgiveness as Two Sides of the Same Coin

52:00 – Forgiveness Isn’t Happiness

55:00 – Guilt vs. Shame

58:30 – Why “Checking the Boxes” Isn’t Change

01:02:30 – Forgiveness as Change

01:05:30 – Final Reflections & Disclaimers

01:07:30 – Gratitude & Closing Thoughts

Ryan Peterson is a Juvenile Court Judge with extensive experience in family law, child welfare, and juvenile justice. Prior to taking the bench, he practiced law for nearly two decades, working closely with families navigating some of the most difficult moments of their lives.
All views expressed in this episode are his own and do not represent the official position of the Utah State Court System.

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📩 Questions or feedback: [email protected]

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