Although we have talked a lot about how AI and digital will and has changed the way music is produced, marketed and consumed, we have yet to have an expert in this area on the show... until now! This time we welcome Cliff Fluet who, whilst trained as a lawyer, is passionate about music and digital and the challenges and opportunities presented. Under the careful quizzing of Maureen and Claire, Cliff takes us under the hood of such contentious areas as creative ownership, how piracy morphed into something more legitimate and the new "value paradigms" emerging as artists and commercial folk wrestle with the tricky business of music in the digital age. Cliff explains what he thinks listeners really really want, whether Spotify plays fair and recalls a time he defended tech in music using the parallel of John Lennon's piano... which he happened to be sitting on at the time.