In this episode Durell is joined by indie hip hop creative and music business consultant Kareem Guy. The episode begins with Durell and Kareem discussing how they got connected because of a mutual respect for what they both do for indie creatives in teaching them how to navigate the music space. Durell asks Kareem about his earliest memories of music. He shared with Durell what was the most pivotal moment for him in music and he says that moment was in 2006 when he wrote his very first rhyme in middle school. He shares that he made a makeshift type studio in his best friend’ basement and recorded his first song and put it on Myspace. Durell shares that he knew he wanted to make a difference in the journey of indie creatives and he had the opportunity to do just that and that’s when great things started to happen especially when he understood the power of branding himself. Kareem and Durell both agree that it can get difficult at times working with indie creatives but both believe it’s most definitely worth it.

Kareem and Durell talk about how important it is for indie creatives to create a solid brand. Branding is what creates the value and Durell shares that oftentimes music consumers will connect to the person before they connect to the music that an indie creative will release into the marketplace. Durell shares this is the reason why Cardi B is the perfect case study that proves her to be a prime example of why fans connect to her even before her music. Durell asks Kareem when he knew he wanted to pursue music professionally. Kareem shares that he definitely was initially focused on being an artist first. He shares that he had linked up with a collective of artists with the goal of “getting on” together in which they were able to gain local traction but Kareem wanted them to be way bigger than being known locally. He found himself drawing a blank when he was researching on how to fix the problem of wanting to build a wider audience. When he did find solutions to the problems his collective were having he shared that he often would see them fall on deaf ears. He shares that out of frustration he would vent on Instagram about the issues that he was experiencing and that actually began to resonate with his followers much more than his music. His next step was that he knew he needed to learn more about the music business so he enrolled in NYU’s Music Business Essentials program. Once he learned the information he needed to know he realized that there was so much to learn if indie artists wanted to build a successful music career. He knew he wanted to share the information he was learning after being more knowledgeable about the music business but once again it was falling on deaf ears. Kareem shares that he wanted to keep delivering the information he learned on his socials because he saw that his followers were still so receptive about receiving his knowledge.

Durell asks Kareem about how he feels about the current state of the music business. Kareem shares that he definitely feels that there are way more tools and resources for artists to get their music heard. He shares that having success in the current state of the music business is having a mindset shift. The mindset shift is understanding that the music that indie creatives put out is their product and they are a business. Durell and Kareem both agree the reason so many creatives fail is because they only see success in one prism which only consists of achieving massive success. Durell shares that he often tells indie creatives that it’s okay to have success that only nets moderate success but the ability to be full time as a creative is the ultimate goal. Kareem and Durell talk about how many artists want to have viral success but don’t have the infrastructure to be able to take advantage of the viral success.

Durell asks Kareem why he feels that indie creatives don’t embrace education. He shares that education isn’t as sexy and fu