The New Heretics

On this All Hallows Eve, @Yung_Logo and @Baren_Nick swap spooky stories from our lives as Jehovah’s Witnesses and beyond. We discuss the limits of our perceptions and sift through skeptical explanations for common uncanny reports. Also included: a Halloween haiku, horror movie recommendations, and shout-outs to exJW horror creators Scott R. Jones and Chris Stuckmann.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

Longtime cult activist and former Jehovah's Witness Lloyd Evans joins The New Heretics to discuss cult deconstruction, the benefits of psychedelics, and the complicated nature of reality and perception.

For a wealth of JW counter-apologetics and cult activist content, please visit The Lloyd Evans Channel and consider donating to the cause.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

exMo Logan joins The New Heretics to recount her experience in a "wayward teen" cult where abuse and mind control was rampant. Topics include the methods Whitmore Academy and Cheryl Sudweeks used to control its victims, the long-term effects of high-control groups, and how Logan has found peace and purpose in her life after waking up.

Also featured is one of Logan's favorite poems, "Wild Geese" by Mary Oliver.

Read more about the Whitmore Academy and the lawsuit that was settled in 2008.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

Nick and Logo are joined by business executive and mindfulness enjoyer Patrick Butler to discuss his deconversion process out of fundamentalist Christianity and what he's taken from Buddhist thought.

Specific information about mindfulness practice begins around the 1:48:00 mark. Other helpful resources mentioned in the conversation:

"When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron https://a.co/d/ctoTbZF

Jack Kornfield https://jackkornfield.com/

Thich Nhat Hanh https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

Philosophy YouTuber Emerson Green joins Nick and Logo to "steelman" Mormonism from a secular perspective. Christians and others in the West often malign The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as "Christianity with a bunch of weird stuff."

But is that fair? Is Mormonism really weirder or less plausible than mainline Christianity?

Included is a critique of a recent video released by YouTube channel Capturing Christianity that attacks Mormonism with flawed and hypocritical arguments typical of Christian apologetics:

Check out more of Emerson's witty, good-faith philosophical and counter-apologetic content on

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCqBy2TfJbYXjqBL3cQOFUig

Twitter: https://x.com/waldenpod

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/emersongreen

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

Jake from the AltWorldly channel joins the pod to discuss the life and lore of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as many of the downstream consequences of being a multigenerational cult member.

Topics include JW urban legends, finding philosophical grounding post-deconversion, coping with shunning and family dynamics, as well as the various ways to navigate deconstruction. There’s also a poem and a lot of tangents + laughing.

Check out Jake’s creative and incisive exJW content on YouTube @altworldly

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

exJW Ruby joins The New Heretics to advocate for the America First movement and recounts her conversion to Orthodox Christianity post deconstruction. We also discuss the backlash her political shift received within the online exJW community, which led her to start a stream open to right-wing perspectives and debate.

Ruby has also launched a letter writing campaign to President Trump requesting an investigation be done into the abuses of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Join the effort if you are interested here:

exJW Letter Writing Campaign Info

You can also find her at:

* Twitter: https://x.com/NewyorkerRican

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NewyorkerRican

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

Scott R. Jones joined the podcast to discuss his new auto-fictional novel Drill, a darkly humous and raw story of a mailman who dares to fight God. We discuss the damage caused by growing up as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, how memetic viruses manifest themselves in reality, and what can be done to combat them — and at what cost?

Buy your copy of Drill today.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

In Part 3 of our series Being PIMQ, we rank doubts and conditions for doubting that Jehovah’s Witnesses may encounter from time to time. Our top tier doubts may surprise you — they surprised us as we went through topics like the authority of the Governing Body, the blood transfusion doctrine, disfellowshipping, mistreatment, and many more.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com

In Part 2 of “Being PIMQ,” Logo and Nick discuss a bit of JW news followed by an in-depth recounting of the doubts that ultimately proved too much for them to overcome.

13:13 — Logo’s waking up story

1:06:42 — Nick’s waking up story

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thenewheretics.substack.com