If you know my podcast and posts, you know I generally avoid politics. As a general rule, my mindset is around productive dialogue, and with divisiveness today, I’m not looking to stir up the crazies on either side, thinking they are on a mission from God to tell me how I’m wrong. 

This, similarly, has been the typical policy of organizations to follow this creed. Business was for work, not politics, and potentially alienating half of a staff or, worse, your client base, was not something most executives were interested in doing. 

Times are changing. With information moving so quickly, and higher expectations of employees for their organization to “have their back,” executives are stuck between a rock and a hard place to navigate what’s appropriate and best for the business, their people and the company’s values. 

We have typically thought of this in social impact areas. Companies that have been quite vocal about their values have often stood by them, living what they preach. The most recent example is Patagonia giving its company away in its mission to leave this planet better off. 

But other topics are dicier. From the Me-Too movement, to the race discussions following George Floyd, to Roe vs. Wade, executives are balancing a split employee base, and doing what they can to stand up for certain beliefs. And, often, these beliefs are personal, blurring the line between the company and it’s leader.

In addition, beyond the challenge of should or shouldn’t they, many executives are being pushed in a direction where silence is more damaging than picking a side. For larger, more visible companies, silence on bigger issues is met with a negative public perception.

There is a bigger challenge, as I see it, and I call it the “sizzle vs. substance.” Executives who are ready with the talking points are out and in front of the story, but when we look back over the past few months, little has changed. Is the benefit of marketing and PR talking points enough for employees and the public, or will they expect to see follow through? And who defines what follow through is acceptable? 

I think back to my time in corporate, working executive communications and putting together speaking points. That’s the easy work; but actually building a program that follows the sizzle is where the rubber meets the road. As we put together these “vocal stands,” part of the internal discussion now must include how far the company is willing to go in support of it.

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I’m Jim Frawley and this is Bellwether. Welcome to bellwether episode, 108. We’re gonna get into the 40 political stuff today. We’re normally I won’t normally, you know, when I have guests on the podcast, I always tell ’em leave politics out of it. Nobody wants to listen to anyone’s political views. We’re talking about productive things, how to set up businesses for, for success, how to do wonderful things. And so normally I, I leave the politics out on the side today.

0:59
The question is, should we leave politics on the side, the new politics of the C-suite and what we’re finding across the board are a lot of CEOs and other types of executives are taking political positions in very hot political topics and making corporate decisions based on that for their people. And the question is, should they, and I’ve got opinions on it, which I’m gonna tell you in a little bit, um, and these opinions have changed over time.

1:34
It’s interesting. It’s, it’s not a simple yes or no question when you really think about, you know, the, the struggles that come with being a senior executive, the challenges that come with being the leader of an organization, being in charge of so many people, being an example, all of the pressure that we put on our leaders. Now, all of a sudden, we take a look and say, well, maybe they should, or shouldn’t have that political political view.

2:02
It’s not new for businesses to get involved in politics. It’s not new. This has been around for a long time. Always. There’s always money from businesses going into influence politics. What is new is the very visible way in which they do it. And it’s, I’m gonna call it sizzle versus substance before the money would go to influence political decisions. Now it’s more about a branding challenge and, and a lot of companies have had very active political movements throughout the years.

2:34
And I think, you know, the first one you think about is Patagonia and their, their work to, you know, for climate change and, and preserving. And just recently, they gave the whole freaking company away to preserve a whole bunch of, uh, places. Um, and that’s fine. I it’s great, good for them. It’s a, it’s a wonderful thing. And I think it’s, um, a very noble decision and, and they’ve been, uh, living their ideals for a very long, a very long time since the beginning.

3:03
And I think this just aligns with who they are as a company. And I think it’s fantastic and it’s good for the world. And, and I think it’s a good example. Um, so when we think about social impact, we think about Patagonia and a company that’s living its ideals, and that’s great, but now we see a lot of organizations try to kinda have the social impact or the credit of the social impact without actually doing something about the social impact.

3:33
Um, because everyone’s got an opinion now and, and everyone’s able to, to talk about that opinion. And, um, if I think back over the last, I mean, we’ll say decade because that’s really the, this is when the new advent really started. It’s even less than it’s probably five years maybe. Um,you know, we think about the, the executives who spoke up around the me too movement inequality, right? Women’s equality in the workplace, I’ll say that women’s equality in the workplace, that’s one and they had opinions, valid opinions.

4:06
And then you’ve got all of the discussion that came after George Floyd when George Floyd was murdered. And that was the racial discussions at work. Everyone had an opinion on that. Uh, a lot of it was we have to be listeners and everything else for, for that, um, Roe versus Wade that overturned recently, that was a big, hot topic. And, uh, executives jumped up and, and said, we’re gonna, you know, we’re opposed to it.

4:34
And we’re gonna fly our people and give them whatever they need to go wherever they need. And, um, that’s when people started to say, Hey, you know, should you really be getting involved in this? And it’s a, it’s a very interesting dynamic of running a business and then also living the virtues and, and values that you espouse. And so, uh, I, I think it’s noble, it’s meant to be noble because you you’re in charge of a number of people.

5:06
Um, you have to do what’s best for your people. Um, and so, so the question I’m gonna ask today is twofold. It’s interesting. And two, one, should they, and two, I want to talk about the sizzle versus substance because we see a lot of people saying it, but there’s no real follow through. There’s a lot of talk after George Floyd. We didn’t see anything. There’s a lot of talk on the me too movement.

5:30
Uh, we did see some of it. We did see some of it, but how does that continue? And, and, and how does that go? Um, and what does that do? So, so let’s talk about, should they, traditionally, it’s been good practice to not wait into politics and that’s because social items generally weren’t necessarily good for business. And also there was, you know, we didn’t want to alienate people, a business doesn’t wanna alienate half the people.

5:58
If, if a business 10 years ago came out on Roe versus Wade or something like that, you’ve just lost half your customers. And we see it today. How many people are just trying to cancel a company because they did a vaccine mandate or something like that. Um, we saw that with, um,oh, what’s the, I guess Carhartt did a vaccine mandate. And then people went bananas and then other people were like, well, so did Ford.

6:20
You’re gonna get rid of your F-150. Um, and so it’s interesting how, since everyone has a voice, you can alienate an entire group of people. And then they’re gonna say, we’re boycotting your company. So there’s a risk, there’s real risk to taking a political stand, which even vaccinating your employees, isn’t really a political stand, but it became a political stand. Um, and so there’s a, so CEOs are kind of caught between this rock and a hard place on what do people expect from my company?

6:45
What do my employees expect from my company? They don’t always align what’s best for my company. What’s best for my employees that may not align with what they expect. And so how do you choose the right thing? Um, it was easy to ignore it a long time ago because ignorance was bliss and there was a lot we didn’t know, and not everyone had an opinion and a way to express it. And that’s great.

7:12
Um, sometimes that’s nice. Sometimes I pine for those days when, um, and I’m gonna do a podcast soon on the joy of not knowing and how ignorance was bliss. And, um, when we get these little bits of information today, suddenly everyone’s an expert with an opinion. And as the world and information flow changes today, many executives are finding an obligation to say things and put out statements from the organization. Silence is no longer allowed.

7:40
If you’re not vocal enough, I’ve seen executives get attacked for not being vocal enough and not doing enough. You get punished for being silent, uh, which is right or wrong. So what do people do and, and how to do it, you need the business, but you also need to live up to the values that you tell your employees to have, or not that you tell your employees you have, but that you wish the organization to espouse.

8:06
And when we think about people strategy, because now we’re talking about it also includes this kind of people strategy in terms of are people proud to be working for an organization because the worker perspective has changed in terms of how we think about employees and are the younger employees more interested in organizations that take a stand and have values and live up to those values and do that. And you know, when we think about people, um, my wife said it best a long time ago, and I keep saying it all the time.

8:37
People want an organization that has their back, and that’s beyond just saying, yes, you have a job and here’s your paycheck. They want to believe and align themselves with an organization. When we go to work, our work is part of our identity. And when an organization gets political, suddenly that organization’s politics becomes part of our identity for writer for wrong. And do you agree with those politics for right or for wrong?

9:08
And we, I talked a little bit about it with what was happening with Elon Musk. I don’t know if I did it on a podcast or was an interview, um, is basically when Elon Musk comes out and talks on SpaceX or anything else, those employees now have to answer for Elon Musk because it’s part of their identity. They work for that place. And now you have to answer all of these questions because Elon Musk runs his mouth on some crazy thing.

9:28
Or Jeff Bezos buys another yacht. So everyone on Amazon kind of has to answer, oh, you work in Amazon. How’s chip Bezos is, you know, it attacks your identity a little bit because you can ask anybody in their eighties, who are you as a person? One of the first things they’re gonna say is the work they used to do. Oh, I’m a teacher, or I’m an engineer or I’m whatever. And even though they’ve been retired for 20 years, it’s still part of your identity.

9:51
And so now you have employees who can work from anywhere can do anything, can articulate their value anywhere can pick where they wanna work. A CEO now has to run a business, but also accommodate people who want to align who they are as an individual. And recognize that work is now part of their personal brand people as an individual now have personal brands, which sounds ridiculous, but it’s true. And it becomes part of their identity.

10:21
And so should they is not this really? Yes or no. I shouldn’t. Because now CEOs as part of living up to the brand that we said, and I have aligned myself with your business, I expect you to be a champion of similar things that I do for right, or for wrong. Um, you have this idea of I’m gonna stand up for what I believe in. And, and, and when we go to psychological safety, people could talk about what they want and what they need in a very safe environment.

10:51
This is part of building trust with your employees. So I can see it working in certain insists, from a people strategy perspective, to Wade, into politics and have opinions on politics. I could see it working, however, um, for it to work there has to, you have to do it in an authentic and substantive substantive way. Is that substantive sub substance. That’s a hard word to say substantive way, um, because it will backfire very quickly if you don’t.

11:28
And so when I was talking to a few people about, should I talk about this? And you know, I wanna do a podcast on this. And, and as many CEOs who are listening to it, I I’ve got clients who are business owners and everything else. Um, as they sit through this and do this, um, and they decide whether or not they should, or shouldn’t the first thing I heard from people when I was saying I was gonna do a podcast on this was not so much whether or not they should, or shouldn’t what we’ve seen is we’ve seen a lot of people do it.

11:59
And then it disappears. They get the Instagram video, they put out a little statement, they get the sizzle and then they’re gone. And that was particularly relevant for a lot of people after George Floyd. Um, and we just call it about George Floyd, but the murder of George Floyd, um, a lot of people had opinions on we’re gonna change culture and we’re gonna do all of these things. And, um, it dies off because the work is really, really hard to change this.

12:27
And it’s also, sometimes the work is beyond what you can actually do in an organization. Sometimes the work is so pervasive in culture. How do you actually, you know, you can change different metrics and do different things inside your organization and, and start conversations and do these types of things. Uh, but after a while, where does it go and who do you champion to do this? And so diversity and inclusion is happening quite a bit in workplaces.

12:54
Some are doing a good job. Some are not. Um, but, but it’s like this marketing versus substance type of thing. It’s, you know, as you’re thinking about putting your name next to some of these causes in a noble way, okay, it’s noble, you’re standing up for what you believe in recognize that you now have a new obligation. Once you do that to follow through, and you can’t just take this marketing sizzle and then not deliver because people will notice the people are getting very hip to this whole kind of Instagram reality.

13:35
I’m seeing it’s more and more people aren’t buying it and for you to get credit for this. Cause that’s what a lot of people are looking for. They look for credit, you’re gonna have to follow through outside of the fact that it’s the right thing to do. Um, so it’s ultimately up to the individual, the executive are you living these all the time? I’ll, I’ll use Patagonia as an example. They live it.

13:59
Um, they live what they say, you know what you’re dealing with when you get Patagonia, you know, that that’s their, their culture. That’s what they, the owner, I don’t know what his name is, but he’s given up and he’s bought acres and acres hectares of, uh, rain forest and, and locked them up from any kind of development and char and giving them away to charity to make sure that we’re preserving stuff.

14:22
He, the guy lives everything about, you know, what he says and what his company’s values are. They live it. And he just did it again by giving away the company to charities and everything else gave the company away. It’s amazing. And so if you are going to do this many other companies don’t have that type of identity. Okay. And that’s okay. Right. I mean, an accounting firm, what are you gonna do in an accounting firm or, or right.

14:45
Like, okay, you can, you can pick whatever it is. Um, it’s tough to find a cause. And do you need to find a cause, but when you’ve got accounting firm, one tow in one tow out, it’s almost, what’s the point. Um, and so you have to figure out what that identity is and what you wish your people to rally behind. Because when you want to get these people to trust your organization and rally in your organization and do more for your organization to be a part of it and promote it and bring other good people into your organization, culture is an important part of that.

15:21
And what you stand for is an important part of it. Now I’m not saying, and this is probably a, a very good thing session and waited to the end, speak softly and carry a big stick is very important in my world, in my view. And so you can do these things without the marketing sizzle, you can do the diversity and inclusion. You can do the, you know, we want this cause, and this is very important to us without announcing it to the world.

15:50
Right. And I see that a lot with banks who give massive amounts of money to these different types of places. Um, I see it with other types of companies, um, who are doing really good work and not getting any credit for it. And I love that. I love it because that’s the stuff that makes a real difference. And so when you think about it, you know, internally they know internally the employees know, and they’re part of it and they believe in it and everything.

16:14
That’s great. Um, and so there there’s, again, the substance substantive substantive part, um, such a difficult word, the substance is, is what really matters. And that’s what your people will get behind. Not just the sizzle, not just marching in front of cameras when they show up, um, not calling them to say, I have an opinion, and I have this statement ready to go when, when this happens, because you have to, um, you have to follow up and you have to do it.

16:44
And so I guess that’s more of a, a life lesson too, in terms of, you know, beyond just the politics of the C-suite it’s, what do you really stand for and what do you really believe and are you willing to stand up for it? And so that’s that so good luck with your decisions. I probably didn’t solve it for you, but it’s, it’s, you know, me just kind of talking about all the things that you get to do and you get to think about, um, there are positives and negatives to both and making that decision is an important one.

17:12
And it’s a good one. And it’s very much a cultural one in terms of the way you wish to espouse these, these types of things and, and approach these types of things. So have a great week enjoy it. The politics, the new politics of the C-suite are no longer just the internal politics. It’s the external politics, tons of fun, such great things to think about, have a wonderful week, and I’ll see you next week.

17:37
Thanks. Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself. Bellwether is much more than just a podcast. Join [email protected], where you can read riveting articles, view upcoming events, and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you out there soon.