In this episode, we speak with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu, a former Freshfields associate and now co-founder of Definely - one of the UK’s most exciting legal tech companies.

Nnamdi traces his journey building a legal career at a Magic Circle firm and ultimately leaving it all behind to solve a problem he first encountered while working alongside his visually impaired colleague Feargus MacDaeid who would become his co-founder.

Nnamdi shares the story of how he and Feargus turned an initial prototype into a Microsoft Word plug-in - and eventually a fast-growing platform now used by over 100 corporate customers like BT and JPMorgan, and law firm giants including A&O Shearman, Cravath and Milbank.

He discusses the steep learning curve of becoming a founder without a technical background, the early product iterations and how the startup found its first champions at firms like A&O and clients like Deloitte.

He also opens up about the realities of startup life: fundraising, cash flow pressure, making hiring mistakes, and learning to let go of perfectionism - particularly as a lawyer-turned-founder.

With Definely now backed by $7 million in Series A funding from Octopus Ventures and expanding into the US, Nnamdi reflects on the changing role of lawyers in the age of AI and why the future of the profession depends on embracing legal tech.

He also offers candid advice for lawyers considering a move into entrepreneurship, including the importance of resilience, self-belief and maintaining a growth mindset.

Chapters

00:45 Journey into Law: Early Influences and Aspirations

03:29 Training at Freshfields: The Big Law Experience

06:23 The Birth of Definely: Identifying a Problem

09:29 Building the First Prototype: A Solution for Accessibility

12:38 From Idea to Startup: The Entrepreneurial Leap

15:26 Securing Initial Funding: The First Angel Investment

18:38 Developing the Product: Iteration and Feedback

21:35 Gaining Traction: Signing First Customers

23:34 Navigating Early Challenges: Building Relationships with Clients

26:25 Leveraging Legal Expertise: Understanding User Needs

29:57 The Importance of Fundraising in Entrepreneurship

34:36 Shifting Mindsets: From Lawyer to Entrepreneur

36:55 Evolution of the Product: From Definitions to Comprehensive Solutions

39:20 Business Model and Customer Base: Focusing on B2B

42:21 Growth Metrics and Future Vision

44:18 Navigating Competition in Legal Tech

49:02 The Role of AI in the Future of Law

52:49 Challenges and Advice for Transitioning to Legal Tech

55:40 Learning from Mistakes: Hiring and Industry Insights

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

This is a conversation with Jonathan Watmough.

Jonathan became managing partner of City firm RPC at just 38. Over the next decade, he repositioned it through the global financial crisis, a shifting legal market and the rise of aggressive lateral hiring.

He stepped down in 2016, and has since worn several hats: performance coach, consultant and most recently, non-executive chair of the newly independent litigation specialist Rosenblatt.

He recently published ‘How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm’, a book gaining traction among mid-career lawyers and law firm leaders and which is all about helping lawyers make the most of their careers.

In this conversation, Jonathan shares his journey from an accidental lawyer to a managing partner at RPC, discussing the challenges and opportunities within the legal profession. He emphasises the importance of differentiation, leadership, and understanding client needs.

He also highlights the significance of emotional intelligence and relationship-building in achieving success in law. He provides insights from his book, and offers practical advice for junior lawyers on navigating their careers and finding their fit within the world of commercial law.

Chapters

00:40 Introduction to Jonathan

03:42 The Accidental Lawyer

06:31 Navigating the Legal Landscape

09:29 Opportunities in Crisis

12:35 Leadership Lessons from RPC

15:37 Role at Rosenblatt and Lessons for Listed Firms

18:47 The Future of Law Firms

21:38 Insights from 'How to Thrive in a Commercial Law Firm'

32:53 The Importance of Commercial Awareness in Law

40:12 Transitioning from Lawyer to Business Person

47:22 Work-Life Balance in Legal Careers

55:17 Future Client Needs and Career Advice

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

Today, we speak with Jack Shepherd.

Jack started out as a restructuring lawyer at Freshfields before moving into legal tech via the firm’s in-house innovation team. He now works at iManage - the US-based legal tech company behind the document management system used by most major law firms.

Jack is a well-known voice in the legal tech space and a regular speaker at industry conferences. He often takes a refreshingly contrarian view on AI - not for the sake of it, but because, having been a practising lawyer, he actually understands how lawyers work day-to-day.

In this conversation, Jack shares insights on the evolving landscape of legal AI and technology. He discusses his transition from practising law to working in legal tech, emphasising the importance of understanding the pain points of lawyers and how technology can address these issues. 

Jack critiques the current hype around AI, advocating for a more practical approach that focuses on enhancing the legal profession rather than replacing it. He also highlights the significance of project management skills in law, the ROI of legal AI tools and offers advice for lawyers looking to transition into legal tech. The discussion ends with thoughts on future-proofing legal careers and the traits of successful junior lawyers.

Chapters

00:50 From Lawyer to Legal Tech 

03:33 Understanding Legal AI: Current Landscape

06:20 The Role of AI in Legal Work

09:25 AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers

12:19 Identifying Pain Points in Legal Practice

15:25 The Future of Law Firms and SaaS

18:40 iManage: Revolutionising Document Management

27:46 Cultural Challenges in Legal Tech Adoption

28:27 Understanding ROI in Legal AI Tools

31:18 Strategic Technology Procurement in Law Firms

34:41 The Role of AI in Law Firm Marketing

36:38 Innovative Legal AI Tools to Watch

40:19 Future-Proofing Legal Careers

40:43 Advice for Lawyers Transitioning to Legal Tech

44:08 Traits of Successful Lawyers

49:25 Recommended Reads for Legal Professionals

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

This is our conversation with Richard Martin, a former partner at law firms including Jones Day and Speechly Bircham, who, after experiencing severe burnout and a mental health crisis while he was at the peak of his powers, has dedicated his career to improving mental well-being in the legal industry.

Now leading the Mindful Business Charter (MBC), Richard advocates for healthier working practices in law firms and corporate environments.

Richard shares his story, we discuss the state of mental health in the legal industry, which firms are doing good work to address the issue, some advice for lawyers feeling like they’re nearing burnout and how the Mindful Business Charter is tackling the issue

Chapters

00:40 Introduction to Richard and His Journey

03:43 The Impact of Stress and Mental Health in Law

06:10 Personal Experience with Mental Health Challenges

09:10 Transitioning to Mental Health Advocacy

12:10 Understanding the Legal Profession's Mental Health Landscape

15:15 The Role of Personality Traits in Lawyer Burnout

18:05 Current State of Mental Health Awareness in Law Firms

21:20 The Mindful Business Charter Explained

24:10 Challenges in Implementing Mental Health Initiatives

27:10 The Future of Mental Health in the Legal Profession

29:20 Understanding Client Expectations and Lawyer Responsiveness

34:10 The Role of Well-Being in Legal Practice

38:42 Balancing High Performance and Employee Well-Being

39:50 Navigating Burnout and Career Satisfaction

45:12 Advice for Junior Lawyers and Career Ownership

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this episode, we talk with Tara Waters.

Tara is a leading voice in legal tech and a lawyer with more than 15 years’ experience at City firms including A&O, Simmons and Ashurst where she was a partner and chief digital officer - during which time she successfully rolled out AI tool Harvey to all of the firm’s 4,000+ lawyers and business services staff around the world.

Tara shares her unique journey from technology to law, highlighting her experiences in legal tech and innovation. She discusses the evolution of legal services, the impact of generative AI, how law firms should assess its ROI and her favourite AI tools on the market.

Tara emphasises the importance of adapting to new technologies, the need for investment in learning and development,and the traits that distinguish great lawyers. She also provides insights into the future of the billable hour model.

Chapters

00:30 Introduction to Tara and Her Journey

03:034 Transition from Technology to Law

06:20 Building a Diverse Legal Practice

09:33 Innovation in Legal Services at Ashurst

12:33 Client-Driven Changes in Legal Tech

14:55 The Evolution of Legal Tech and AI

18:11 Generative AI's Impact on Legal Work

21:05 The Role of AI Assistants in Legal Practice

23:50 Harvey: A Case Study in Legal AI Implementation

27:08 Internal Adoption of AI Tools at Ashurst

30:40 Elevating Voices: The Importance of User Stories

30:58 Gaining Partner Buy-In for Technology Investments

33:20 Measuring ROI: Beyond Cost Savings

36:02 The Evolving Role of Lawyers in the Age of AI

39:36 Rethinking the Billable Hour Model

43:24 Legal AI Tools: Preferences and Industry Trends

48:02 Leading Firms in Legal Tech Innovation

49:31 Career Advice: Confidence and Continuous Learning

54:48 Investing in Learning and Development

56:40 The Value of Knowing When to Pivot

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In today’s episode, we sit down with Scott Gibson, one of the City’s top headhunters and co-founder of elite partner-level recruitment firm Edwards Gibson. 

With 25 years in the game, Gibson has seen it all - and according to him, the market is crazier than ever.

We discuss what’s driving the hottest law firm partner transfer market in years, why elite firms are paying eye-watering sums, which practice areas are in hottest demand and how the rules of partnership are changing. 

Scott also reveals what law firms are looking for in lateral hires and gives his advice for associates and junior partners looking to make their mark.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Scott and His Career Path

02:03 Current State of the City Talent Market

06:11 The Impact of US Law Firms on the Market

09:59 High-Profile Partner Moves and Their Implications

14:07 The Economics Behind Law Firm Investments

17:58 What Law Firms Look for in Lateral Hires

21:54 Impact on firms outside the Magic Circle

26:13 Ageism and Retirement in Law Firms

30:53 The Pension Dilemma in Law Firms

32:42 Capital Contributions and Partner Exits

36:31 Navigating Guaranteed Compensation

38:30 The Role of Headhunters in Law Firm Recruitment

46:07 The Partner Hiring Process

55:20 Career Advice for Aspiring Partners

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: ⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/

In this episode, we sit down with Alexander Kardos-Nyheim, a lawyer who remarkably built a legal AI company as a side project during his training contract at A&O. In 2024 - just as he was qualifying - he sold the business to Thomson Reuters for a life-changing sum of money. 

Alexander shares his inspiring journey from a young advocate fighting against a developer threatening his community to becoming a lawyer and co-founding his legal tech startup, SafeSign Technologies. He discusses the challenges of balancing a training contract at A&O with the startup, the dynamics of the legal market, and the eventual acquisition by Thomson Reuters. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Alex's Journey

02:49 The Catalyst for Becoming a Lawyer

05:36 Navigating Law School and Early Advocacy

08:07 The Appeal of Big Law Firms

10:31 The Impact of Rising Salaries in Law

13:14 The Shift in the Legal Market Dynamics

15:45 Starting a Tech Business During a Training Contract

18:22 Building a Legal Tech Startup

20:56 Balancing Work and Startup Life

22:58 The Challenges of a Dual Career

29:30 Navigating Dual Careers: Law and Entrepreneurship

31:50 Pivoting to Legal AI: The Birth of a Startup

35:18 Building a Legal-Specific AI Model

39:21 Funding and Team Dynamics in a Startup

42:49 Acquisition Talks: The Thomson Reuters Interest

49:52 Life After Acquisition: New Beginnings at Thomson Reuters

54:36 Advice for Aspiring Lawyer-Entrepreneurs

About Non-Billable

Non-Billable is an email newsletter and media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.

Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk/