The Ordinary Elite is a Scottish podcast series brought to you from Glasgow by John McGovern and Mike Dailly. Both are Solicitor Advocates - John a criminal defence lawyer and Mike a civil litigation practitioner and social justice campaigner. In our 1st episode of Season 3, we're delighted to be joined by the former Prime Minister of Australia, Malcolm Turnbull. Before his political career, Malcolm had a very successful career in law and business. In 1986, he made legal history beating the UK Government in the Spycatcher trial: HM Attorney General for the United Kingdom v Heinemann Publishers Proprietary Ltd & Peter Wright. The litigation had been raised by Margaret Thatcher’s government to prevent publication of a book which was to be published in Australia. ‘Spycatcher’ was the selected memoirs of a retired MI5 agent then living in Tasmania. We also discuss truth and candour in 21st century politics; Brexit and the use of referenda in constitutional politics.