Sami J. Karam speaks to best-selling author Michele Wucker about her 2016 book The Gray Rhino and how its method and lessons apply to the coronavirus pandemic.

Topics include:

0:00 Introduction of Michele Wucker

1:05 When will we be able to travel to Asia or Europe again?

3:10 Explaining the concept and examples of Gray Rhino events

9:00 Various reactions to the spread of the pandemic

15:50 Was the virus predictable?

19:20 Why should we have been readier for the virus when it is so rare?

22:00 Why we ignore what is "over there". Did it start "over there" or over here?

25:35 How could we have prepared for the pandemic?

31:00 The current catch-22: deaths by virus vs. deaths of despair

44:10 Stages of a Gray Rhino event applied to the pandemic

50:10 What other Gray Rhino events do you worry about? A triad of Gray Rhinos

55:45 How alarmists help avert deep crises

59:40 Conclusion