A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Matt Erickson shares two formative books for his ministry—Eugene Peterson’s Working the Angles and Tim Keller’s Preaching—highlighting how they shape his approach to prayer, Scripture, pastoral care, and effective preaching.

In this episode of the The CPT Podcast, hosts Zachary Wagner and Joel Lawrence interview Matt Erickson about his path to pastoral ministry and the ideas behind his book The Pastor as Gardener. Erickson shares his conversion in high school, his formation at Wheaton College and Northern Theological Seminary, and how crises in ministry—including COVID-19 and church tensions—pushed him to rethink common leadership models. Drawing on Eugene Peterson and biblical imagery such as 1 Corinthians 3, he argues that pastors should see themselves as “gardeners” who cultivate conditions for growth while trusting God to produce the fruit, emphasizing spiritual formation, shared ministry, and long-term hope.

In this final episode of the Preaching in the Pastor-Theologian series, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim are joined by Nicole Martin—pastor, preacher, and President/CEO of Christianity Today—for a wide-ranging conversation that brings the series’ central themes into sharp focus. Drawing on her own preaching journey and her book Nailing It, Martin reflects on preaching as a theological act of proclamation rather than performance, emphasizing surrender, simplicity, and a God-centered vision of the pulpit. Together, they explore the difference between preaching and teaching, the dangers of human-centered and culturally driven sermons, and the urgent need for theological formation shaped by the cross rather than triumphalism. The episode closes with a candid and pastoral word to preachers: true faithfulness lies not in success or spectacle, but in dying to self, trusting the sufficiency of God’s grace, and letting the Word of God do its work among a listening church—and a listening preacher.

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim welcome Todd Still, Delancey Dean and Professor of Christian Scriptures at Truett Seminary, for a rich conversation on theological education and the formation of preachers. Drawing on his own journey as a pastor, scholar, and dean, Still articulates a layered theological vision for preaching—rooted in the grand narrative of Scripture, shaped by evangelical and Baptist convictions, and deeply informed by Pauline theology. Together, the hosts and guest explore the vocation of the pastor theologian, the necessity of rigorous theological study for faithful proclamation, and the dangers of thin, topic-driven preaching detached from Scripture. The conversation also addresses the role seminaries play in forming preachers, the importance of uniting substance and style, and the need for preaching that aims at discipleship and Christlike formation. The episode concludes with an extended discussion of Truett Seminary’s PhD in Preaching, highlighting its commitment to forming scholar-pastors who can serve both the church and the academy for the long haul.

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with CPT Fellow Dan Brendsel about preaching in an age shaped by social media, attention economics, and artificial intelligence, exploring how technology subtly reinforces idolatry and the illusion of control. Brendsel argues that preaching should resist catering to diminished attention spans and instead cultivate prayerful attentiveness to God, framing preaching as God’s address to a listening community rather than a performance or content delivery optimized by technique or AI. Drawing on thinkers like Neil Postman, C. S. Lewis, and Oliver O’Donovan, he emphasizes improvisation, dependence on the Spirit, and the irreplaceable “occasion” of preaching—something no algorithm can anticipate. The conversation challenges pastors to examine how technology forms both preachers and congregations, calling them back to trust in the Word, embodied listening, and a posture of humble submission rather than technological mastery.

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with pastor, lawyer, and theologian K. Edward Copeland about how the gospel shapes the church’s engagement with today’s social and political tensions. Ed shares his unique journey—from overcoming a childhood speech impediment to decades of ministry and justice work—and offers a compelling vision of the gospel as God’s reconciling work for people, systems, and the whole cosmos. Drawing on the African American preaching tradition and the posture of exile, he explains how preaching can form Christians who discern cultural idols, process societal events theologically, and live faithfully amid fractured times. The result is a conversation full of wisdom, hope, and clarity for pastors and congregations navigating the complexities of modern life.

In this conversation, hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Gerald Hiestand—senior pastor of Calvary Memorial Church and co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians—about cultural intelligence and the work of preaching. Drawing from his ministry in the diverse and politically complex context of Oak Park, Illinois, Gerald describes the challenges and opportunities of engaging culture thoughtfully from the pulpit. He reflects on how pastors can understand the visible and invisible layers of culture, avoid the “ditches” on either side of cultural and political extremes, and use cultural “types” as pathways that point people toward the gospel. The discussion explores how preaching can form a theological vision of culture, how to love congregations well by understanding their varied backgrounds, and how pastors can navigate political tensions with a Christ-centered framework. Gerald also shares personal reflections on growing in pastoral confidence, learning to give clearer admonition with less scaffolding, and shepherding faithfully through turbulent cultural seasons.

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with Ahmi Lee about her vision for preaching as participation in God’s “grand drama.” Drawing from her global upbringing, pastoral experience, and theological training, Lee explains how preaching should bridge text-centered and reader-centered approaches by rooting sermons in the sweeping biblical narrative while remaining attentive to the lived experiences of listeners. She argues that preaching is ultimately a doxological act—first for God, then for the church, and still welcoming to those exploring faith. The hosts and Lee discuss the purpose of preaching, the role of the congregation as active listeners, the need for holistic and integrated biblical formation, and how preachers can engage diverse audiences. Lee closes by reflecting on how God is teaching her to trust Him more deeply amid a restless and chaotic world.

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Anglican priest and theologian Jonathan Bailes about the deep connection between preaching, discipleship, and the daily life of the church. Bailes reflects on the formative role of preaching within a liturgical tradition, emphasizing that the sermon is not commentary on current events but an encounter with the living voice of God that continually calls the church to remembrance amid spiritual forgetfulness. Drawing on Scripture, church history, and pastoral experience, he argues that discipleship is shaped less by novelty and more by steady saturation in God’s Word—through preaching, liturgy, and practices that help Christians hear, understand, and be formed by Scripture. The conversation ultimately invites pastors to reclaim confidence in the simple, repeated proclamation of the gospel as the heart of Christian formation.

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Paul Hoffman, senior pastor of Evangelical Friends Church in Newport, Rhode Island, about his ministry journey and upcoming transition to a faculty role at Samford University. The conversation centers on the book Preaching to a Divided Nation, coauthored by Hoffman and Kim, exploring how pastors can preach for reconciliation amid cultural, political, and racial divisions. Together, they discuss the theological foundations of unity, the “four isms” that divide the church, the importance of empathy and storytelling in pastoral ministry, and how preaching forms Christian identity. Hoffman also reflects on listening as a spiritual discipline, cultivating a “non-anxious presence,” and embracing the call to be ambassadors of reconciliation in a fractured world.