In this second part of our conversation with Indra Adnan and Pat Kane, co-initiators of The Alternative UK, we explore how we can talk and listen to each other in a way that will shake things up but also encourage the flexibility and openness that’s needed for 'the politics of waking up' to emerge.

Both parts of this conversation were recorded before the covid pandemic but we think that - if anything - what we're talking about here and what Indra and Pat are trying to do will become even more relevant in the post-pandemic world.