My conversation with porn historian Noelle Perdue on the censorious attempt to regulate pornography today—and our heated debate about what a moral society owes its citizens.

Also discussed: “pornography is neutral but our sexual culture is not,” box dye heritage, wanting to see things you can never unsee, “The Entertainment” in Infinite Jest, choking in porn is now illegal in the UK (!), vibes-based legislation, our sexual culture, the overlap between anti-trans and anti-porn rhetoric, Francesca just wants everyone to have good sex, the “porn industry” doesn’t exist as such, stalking the halls of the Bellagio, the feature of SESTA/FOSTA is to harm sex workers—it’s not a bug, the fallacy of the Nordic Model, and how “keeping people isolated is profitable business.”

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