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I’ve been writing and giving a number of talks lately on the modern Republican Party — how it got to where it is today and how it operates in the Age of Donald Trump. A question I often get from people is, What comes next? What does the next presidential contest look like when Donald Trump isn’t a part of it? Where does the party go from here?

I have an array of thoughts on this, but I was particularly honored to be joined by Jonah Goldberg of The Dispatch, who has a deeper knowledge of modern American conservatism than just about anyone else alive. The full recording above is pay-walled after around 10 minutes, but I do encourage you to listen to the whole thing. Among the issues we discussed:

* The extent to which Donald Trump is still a kingmaker in the 2028 Republican presidential nomination contest, and how much JD Vance can hope to inherit Trump’s mantle.

* What becomes of the MAGA coalition in a post-Trump world. I tend to see MAGA as the inheritor of a conservative populist movement that has been around for decades and I don’t think that’s going anywhere any time soon. Jonah agrees but sees a world where those who argue for more traditional conservative stances having a larger voice than they do now. (The 2024 Republican presidential primary debates sans Trump were instructive.)