In this episode I chat with my longtime friend, colleague, and autism expert Barb Avila, and Dr. Dan Siegel, a New York Times bestselling author and clinical professor of psychiatry.

We dive into some really amazing stuff. Like how interpersonal neurobiology intersects with autism and the challenges of forming secure attachments with 24 children at the same time!

We end with a brief conversation that left me knowing just how necessary the ECE {r}evolution is...and a few words of hope from both of my guests.