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The Power of Social Media with Ellen Graves-Part 2
Ellen Graves is back in the 4-H-4-U-2 studio to talk about the powerful positive impact that 4-H and Social Media has on the youth of today.
Transcript:
Announcer: This is 4-H-4-U-2, a podcast from the Mississippi State University Extension Service promoting 4-H programs and positive youth development. Here now, your hosts, Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: And welcome back to another podcast of 4-H-4-U-2. I'm your host, John Long.
Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: Cobie, we have been sitting here talking for seemingly like an hour to our next guest as a precursor to our show. This is our second podcast with Ellen Graves. How you doing today, Ellen?
Ellen Graves: Doing good.
John Long: Same as you were about 10 minutes ago, I guess.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
John Long: We pretend like there's been some lack in time, anyway. So yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: I wish we'd been recording the whole time. We had some-
Ellen Graves: That's not for people to hear.
John Long: It wasn't anything bad, but it was just like, so not on topic with what we're going to talk about today.
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: It wasn't research based...
Ellen Graves: But y'all were helping make the guest comfortable, right? So that's part of it.
John Long: That's right. Just setting up the whole thing.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right. Celebrities, and favorite people, and movies.
John Long: Movies, yeah.
Ellen Graves: Movies, yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: All good stuff for sure.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, for sure.
John Long: But you made mention of one thing I guess we could lead in with, is about your end course. In the South, we say daddy. So your daddy, go ahead and tell us today cause I thought that was really cool 4-H connection.
Ellen Graves: Okay, yeah. Yeah. So I was telling y'all that in this job I figured out that 4-H is such a great organization to be a part of and I wish I had done it when I was growing up. I was not, unfortunately, in 4-H and I totally wish I had been. But when I got this job, my dad started to regale us of stories when he was in 4-H back in the 60s and early 70s, and because of 4-H he was able to get on his first plane ride ever and go to national 4-H convention in Chicago, maybe. And so, 4-H gave him that first opportunity in his life to get on a plane. And so he's always remembered that. And he won a lot of contests in forestry especially in 4-H and he just loved it so much. And so I think it's cool that I get to work with 4-H now.
John Long: And I said the same thing on an earlier podcast. I was not in 4-H, I really wish I had been.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, I mean I don't think people realize, and I know when I got this job, I think I thought like a lot of people did that, "Oh, it's for kids like showing pigs or cows, horses maybe, but I'm not really into that."
John Long: Which we do, which we do.
Ellen Graves: Right. And that's a very important part of 4-H. You can learn so much through that. But for 4-H has something literally for everybody. And I think one of the biggest things that I think of now is the leadership skills that it gives you, public speaking. Those are things I wish I had done when I was growing up and I wish I had been in 4-H for those things.
John Long: Yeah, for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: So we do a lot of promotional social media with 4-H contests with 4-H different events. Do you think that one day these 4-H’ers will use social media platforms as almost a resume builder to go back and say this is what all I've done?
Ellen Graves: I think that's a cool idea. I've actually never even thought about it that way, but...
John Long: See, here we go again.
Ellen Graves: I know, look at y'all. But yeah...
John Long: Write all this stuff down.
Ellen Graves: I know, these are good ideas. A lot of 4-H’ers I think do use that because you can scroll back to two years ago if you'd been on there long enough and you can see all those posts you did, whether you were at Club Congress or at the state fair, Dixie National, and you really preserve those memories. And I think the cool part about social media is that you preserve the memories and that emotion that you were feeling at that time in your life. You know, looking back years later, you might feel different about it. But the cool thing is when you scroll back, you remember how you felt right in that moment. And I think that's a really cool thing.
John Long: And a few things. If you think life doesn't move fast...
Ellen Graves: Yeah, it does.
John Long: Hey, scroll back...
Ellen Graves: That's right. Preach it. Yeah.
John Long: Yep, that's right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. I think you was just talking about your dad when he was on the plane taking that trip to National 4-H Congress and yeah, I thought, "Well, what was going through his mind if he'd been able to capture that on social media?"
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: That'd have been huge to go back and look at.
Ellen Graves: Oh, I know.
John Long: We had a lady, I can't remember her name, I'm sorry. But anyway, she got to go to DC when she was just a young girl on a train. And that was a big deal for her.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: So it's similar to, you know.
Ellen Graves: Right. Well, and I think too, like we're talking about my dad back in the 60s but even nowadays I mean, kids in 4-H get so many opportunities to go out of the state, see other parts of the world, meet other kids their age from all over. And you're doing that through an organization that you know, and love, and trust.
John Long: That's right.
Ellen Graves: And so I think just the opportunities alone for travel is something that a lot of other organizations for youth cannot offer.
John Long: That's exactly right, exactly right.
Cobie Rutherford: And I think a lot of youth that are going to the national contest right now, all over the country, I think about what kind of experience they're getting. You know, they competed at our State Congress and horticulture judging or consumer judging or whatever it was. And now they're getting to go to a national trip that I mean even John, you mentioned shooting sports on an earlier podcast.
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: What else would take you to Grand Island, Nebraska and have a chance to see that part of the world.
John Long: Exactly.
Cobie Rutherford: Other than shooting sports or, you know maybe livestock.
John Long: Livestock, yeah, for sure.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, and I mean those 4-H'ers that get to go on those trips, it helps them understand there's a whole world out there.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: There's so many opportunities and possibilities for their lives that maybe they just hadn't thought of yet.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so, I mean, you can't put a price on that. 4-H does that for kids. So I think, I don't know, it's just awesome.
John Long: And I think that's important too, to remember the actual experience because, and we'll go back to the podcast we had, part one of Ellen Graves, but when information is so readily available, I mean, look, you don't have to climb to the top of Everest. They got a 360 degree view of Everest, whatever you want to call it. Everything is right there. But if you're not there, if you don't sit there and are able to look at the Grand Canyon face to face, you can't really appreciate it from that standpoint. And I think that goes the same for these trips and everything, you know what I'm saying?
Ellen Graves: Oh yeah, for sure.
John Long: Social media takes us to certain places, but it will never-
Ellen Graves: It can only take you so far.
John Long: That's correct. Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: Ellen, I like how you mentioned a while ago that social media allows us to capture memory but also an emotion. Can you elaborate some more on that?
John Long: Yeah, I wish she would, because I did this, which I'm combing through my beard right now. Go ahead.
Ellen Graves: Yeah. So, I think I get the unique opportunity to see a lot of posts out there about 4-H from our 4-H'ers, from our volunteers, from their parents. And I think one post in particular really sticks out to me, is we have a 4-H'er named Savannah and her mother, we follow her mother, her mother posted a collage picture of Savannah when she was just a kiddo, going to Project Achievement Day. And then she posted a picture from years after that where Savannah was wearing a green jacket and was there as a State Council Officer. And so just look at that post visually and then see in the caption that mother described the transformation that her daughter had gone through and the confidence that she had gained. I mean, makes me look at 4-H and I appreciate my job through their eyes.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: You know, cause I look at a lot of stuff obviously from my angle, from a professional angle, from my work angle, but to see that emotion and that memory through a parent's eyes of her child growing and becoming a great young lady, that's something that I was able to think about because of social media.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I think that's one example. Was that a good answer?
John Long: That is very good.
Cobie Rutherford: That was really good.
John Long: I was going to say it's a virtual record book.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: You know, like a 4-H record book. I mean, you see that progression.
Ellen Graves: Right. And I mean I think 4-H has done a really good job of trying to meet our folks where they're at on social media. So like one of the new things that we've done lately is create a Facebook group for 4-H volunteers. And so they have a space underneath our Facebook page where they can discuss internally what their plans are, updates about different things. So it's a virtual gathering space because as y'all know, our volunteers are stretched throughout the state. So this is a place where we can use technology to help kind of fill in those gaps.
John Long: Yeah. And we did that on the national team this year too.
Ellen Graves: Oh, that's cool.
John Long: There's a Facebook page that a parent had started just for a means of saying, "Hey, this is where we're at and this is what we're doing."
Ellen Graves: Right. That's right.
John Long: So yeah, that makes perfect sense for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: And I like all the new components of social media, like on Facebook or Instagram where you can almost go live, well you can go live, at any place you're at and share your experiences of what you're doing in that moment.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: Yes, yes. And Cobie, give a shout out to him, he is like a master at going Facebook live, Instagram live. He's like so confident about it. So shout out to you.
Cobie Rutherford: Oh my gosh. The first time I did that, I was live at the livestock show going around and talking to the people before-
Ellen Graves: It's that adrenaline rush, isn't it?.
Cobie Rutherford: It is. It was before they walked into the ring for the championship drive at Dixie or State Fair one. And then all of a sudden this calf kicked this kid.
John Long: Oh no.
Ellen Graves: Oh no. Drama.
John Long: No music track.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: And then someone let out a descriptive word at that calf.
John Long: Oh.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: That was probably not social media...
Ellen Graves: Right. Appropriate. Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: So I quickly deleted that.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: And did not share and then started over again.
Ellen Graves: Right. You got to have fast fingers, sometimes on social media.
John Long: Yeah, for sure.
Ellen Graves: But I do think Facebook live, Instagram live, just going live in general and gives us the opportunity to be authentic in a way that we've never been able to do before.
John Long: Yeah, yeah.
Ellen Graves: Because when you think about it, that's just the structure of media. People obviously place so much emphasis on television because they had the ability to go live.
Cobie Rutherford: Right.
Ellen Graves: Whereas now that power is also in the hands of everyday people. And we can argue whether that's good or bad, but I know in 4-H we're using it for good.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: And so I think being able to open up that window to people, being really transparent with them, is a great tool for us.
John Long: I've only been Facebook live one time.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: And it was that...
Ellen Graves: I worry about you sometimes, John. That's all we can do, one time.
John Long: I'm just like, "Oh no, let me get my finger up here." Arthritis. But I was in a tree stand and I just said, "I'm going to try this." And it was like, "Okay well here I am, what do I do now?"
Ellen Graves: Some people are more natural at it than others.
John Long: Yeah, yeah. I guess I'd like it if I did it more but I don't.
Ellen Graves: Practice makes perfect.
Cobie Rutherford: I feel like I need to do a real enthusiastic voice when I do Facebook live. I'm like, "Hey y'all!"
John Long: Trying to drum up some excitement.
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: "This is Cobie Rutherford."
Ellen Graves: Well that's why I like being behind the camera because y'all know my philosophy with the accounts that I manage is like, I never want to make it about me, you know like ever, even though I'm the person behind it kind of operating it.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: But that's the funny part, I think, about working with 4-H'ers is that these kids are so naturally inclined to be not nervous in front of the camera.
Ellen Graves: Whereas people, even my age, y'all's age, have kind of a nerve nervous element to going live or getting on video. And so these 4-H'ers have really just embraced it because it's all they've ever known.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so that makes for great social media, so that's good for me.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: Yeah. And I think it helps them kind of watch their actions too.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: Right.
John Long: Because now they know that if they do something down the line that anybody anywhere can flip up a camera and video them.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, and I think...
John Long: And it is all over the place.
Cobie Rutherford: Right. And that's, yeah. Like you said, because if something happens or, you know what I mean?
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: It's a different, I don't know, I don't want to say media, but it's a different...
Ellen Graves: But it's a different world because people have the technology at their fingertips to record anything, so-
John Long: Isn't that crazy?
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: And I remember wanting a video camera.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: That thing was huge as, you know, and now it's in the palm of your hand.
Ellen Graves: Your hand.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And take just as good video.
Ellen Graves: It does.
Cobie Rutherford: What I see is like, and Ellen, please comment on this. Do you see a lot of youth when they're trying to create content, they're trying to put things out there to get likes or make impressions. How important are those to a lot of youth and do a lot of youth take them more serious than they should?
Ellen Graves: So I think that's a great point to bring up. And honestly, when you think about it, we're still really young in the progression of social media. So I know there's a lot of research that has been done, that's going to continue to be done about the effect mentally that social media has on young people and even people our age. And I mean just from, this is Ellen's opinion, my viewpoint on it is that yeah, I think people do take stock in how many likes a picture gets. Because I always tell 4-H'ers in my workshops I do with them is that whether you know it or not, you are a social media strategist. Because like for example, on Instagram, you're thinking about, "Okay, what picture do I want to put up from my camera roll? What filter do I want to use? What kind of caption should it be? This kind of caption or should I make it funny? What hashtag should I put? What emoji should I put with it?" You know, so people are going through the same thought process because they want that post to succeed. Right?
John Long: And if anybody heard the first one, it's called clout.
Ellen Graves: Oh yeah.
John Long: I don't even know what that means.
Ellen Graves: You're becoming a social media strategist.
John Long: I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you, I had to throw that in there.
Ellen Graves: No, it's fine. No, it's fine. And so, I do think that whether young people admit it or not, they do think about that. And it's funny you should bring this up. I actually saw a headline the other day that Instagram is starting to test and roll out a feature where the likes are hidden from public view. So if you put up a picture of yourself, you can see, "Okay, I got 50 likes on it." But someone looking at it from the public's perspective would not know how many likes, and that's an interesting thought because they saying they're basically eliminating the peer pressure of like, "Oh, well 100 people have liked this, so I should too." Or, "Only 20 people liked it, so I'm not going to like it, that's lame." You know? And so I think that's going to be really interesting to see if that actually does come to pass or if it's just something they're testing. So, yeah.
John Long: So it kind of gives them an idea of like making an informed decision instead of a snap decision based on what everybody else has done.
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. And it's kind of like you judge yourself against others.
John Long: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: You know, I can put a picture of me and one of my cows or, I'm just being facetious here, but you know somebody else could. And I'm like, "Wow, they got more likes with their cow than I did with mine."
Ellen Graves: Right, right.
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And I think that happens more times than not. You know, you see that a lot. And it's almost like, I know I catch myself, and I don't know if y'all ever do, but I catch myself saying, "What is the purpose of this other than your glorification?"
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: You know what I'm saying? It's like, "Look what I can do."
Ellen Graves: Well, and it's like a weird line for me because professionally I very much care about analytics and it tells me certain things about our audience and about how I can be changing our content to meet the needs of our audience by paying attention to analytics. But then on the personal side of things, I try to not take that with me.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: I try not to like over analyze my own personal presence on social media.
Cobie Rutherford: Right.
Ellen Graves: But for professional it is really important in my job to understand those things.
John Long: Yeah, I bet it is.
Cobie Rutherford: So how many accounts do you monitor?
Ellen Graves: I told you I wasn't good at math, Cobie.
Cobie Rutherford: I will give you a piece of paper.
Ellen Graves: I know. I don't know. I would say like a rough estimate is that, like I have my hands on probably about 20 accounts. Managing day to day consistently, it's probably about 10. But I have my hands just in a lot of pots I guess would be the best way to describe it. I generally tell people, someone actually asked me this in Sunday school the other day like, "What do you do?" Because I think a lot of times in Extension our job titles can not be very... Some people just don't understand what that means.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I told the person, I think about my role in Extension as I create content and then I also manage accounts and then I also train people in Extension about how to best use social media. So that's kind of the way I think about it. So, yeah, I'm looking at social media every day.
John Long: So let me ask you this, it's a good lead into my next question. Does Ellen Graves ever unplug totally?
Ellen Graves: Oh, there's some days where I wish I could just throw my phone in a river, but then I know I would just jump in right after it.
John Long: Right, right.
Ellen Graves: But it's hard for me to completely unplug. I do try on Sundays not to look at our work accounts and then the only time I can really unplug for an extended amount of time is during our Christmas break because that's the only time long enough where I'm physically not at work.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That I don't have to worry about it as much.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: But you know, the thing I tell folks a lot of times, I feel like in this job in particular, but we all have aspects like this in our own jobs. I don't want to sound like I'm the only one like this. But you know, even when I go home, if someone sends us like a question on our 4-H Facebook page at 8:00 PM, I'm looking at it.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: You know I'm answering it.
John Long: Right. Sure.
Ellen Graves: And so it's kind of like with my job, you can take it with you wherever you go.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I do have to try to step back at times. As we've said before, I did graduate from Ole Miss. There was one time during where we really lost an Egg Bowl real bad to State and I had to put my phone in a drawer.
John Long: Oh wow, it was blowing up that bad?
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: Oh wow.
Ellen Graves: It was bad. And so but I do try to unplug around the holidays. But I'm pretty much plugged in all the time.
John Long: Well I think, and you said it is part of your job. What advice would you give to a young person in order to get a healthy balance? Because I just, I mean people are with their heads down.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: I think they're just going to eventually just get a crick in their neck and never going to look up and look around at the world.
Ellen Graves: Right, look at the sunshine. Right.
John Long: Right, exactly. So how does the person do that when it's just so available. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that we need to-
Ellen Graves: Have a good balance.
John Long: Yeah, you're not going to see a sunrise if you're trying to Google one, you know?
Ellen Graves: Right. Well, I think I've been really fortunate to have lived before there was social media, so I had a childhood that was free of a screen, that was free of social media, and I'm really thankful for that. But at the same time, nowadays that's just the world we live in, right?
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That stuff is available to kids. And so I think having that balance of having times in your life during just your normal weekly routine of like, "Okay, the phone, it goes on the dresser drawer at 8:00 PM and I'm not going to look at it after that." You know? And I think honestly, when you're talking about teenagers and kids, you're talking about their parents, right? Because those are the folks who would be obviously setting the rules in the house. And so I think as a parent you have to say, "What are our digital guidelines as a family?"
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And you're setting an example for your children.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And I think adults have to think about that. But I did talk with our 4-H'ers at Co-op and we just kind of had just a time where we just kind of talked with each other about what social media is to them. And I told them, I said, "You know, a lot of adults think that y'all cannot communicate face to face. They think teenagers can't look another adult in the eyeballs and talk to them."
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And that they just, phones and social media have put up a barrier. And the kids really pushed back on that. They said, "We feel very confident about looking people in the eyes and talking to them." And that might be because they're 4-H'ers, right?
John Long: Right, right. I was thinking that.
Ellen Graves: They have the skill set to do that, right. But the other point too they brought up with me is, and I agree with this, is that teenagers and kids in their mind, when they're texting someone when they're Snapchatting someone, that is a friendship.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That is relationship. It's just in a different way than their parents experienced friendship.
John Long: Right, right.
Ellen Graves: And so it's not that they're just in a world all by themselves. A lot of times they're communicating with their friends through those methods.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so. But to boil it down, I kind of had a rambling answer.
John Long: No, I-
Ellen Graves: You do have to have a balance.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And I think with anything in life, you have to have a balance.
John Long: One thing that I'm seeing more and more of late is the ease, and I'm speaking for myself, the ease of parents. Did you just give a device to a child for a pacifier, for lack of a better words, you know? And then it just becomes such an addiction to where that child, and again moderation in all things, but it becomes just like this, "I got to have, I got to have it, I got to have it." And I think that is a danger for sure.
Ellen Graves: And I think I'm not as well versed in that kind of stuff. I don't have kids myself. And so I haven't had to experience that. But I think the research that folks are doing out there from this generation that's grown up like this will tell us things eventually-
John Long: Right, I agree.
Ellen Graves: About how that's affected them and adulthood and all that.
John Long: Sure.
Ellen Graves: And we'll have to look at what that says. But what I do encourage, parents out there, especially 4-H parents, is that we will definitely want you to post about 4-H-
John Long: Absolutely, absolutely.
Ellen Graves: And about your kids having a great time in 4-H.
John Long: That's right.
Ellen Graves: Because it's always better. We can shout from the rooftops on our 4-H accounts that we have, but it's going to be way more authentic coming from y'all.
John Long: Absolutely.
Ellen Graves: For sure.
John Long: The youth tell the story.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
Cobie Rutherford: And how important is it for them to use the hashtag so you can see what they're talking about?
Ellen Graves: Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Cobie.
John Long: Ellen always has to remind me during annual conference what the hashtag is.
Ellen Graves: I know. It's all right.
John Long: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Ellen Graves: That was part of my job. So #MS4H no dash, just all put together. And then for Extension it's #MSUEXT. And you might say, why is this important for me to use this hashtag? One of the reasons that I've seen is that a lot of 4-H'ers, or even volunteers and parents, will post something about an activity they've done through 4-H but not actually mentioned in the caption that it's 4-H.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so there's this misconception that it's another youth organization out there. And so if you put up your caption and then at the very end just put #MS4H, you're getting that point across to your friends and family that this was done through 4-H. And so that helps our brand grow, just from doing that tiny thing. And then also just from my perspective professionally, it helps me be able to see the amount of posts out there about Mississippi 4-H because-
John Long: ...going back to analytics again.
Ellen Graves: That's right. It gives me a way to aggregate the content that's out there so I can understand what is our audience talking about, what concerns do they have? And I want to make sure that I interact with our 4-H audience through our Mississippi 4-H account. So when you put up a post describing a 4-H experience, I want to like that. I want to, from our 4-H account, I want to say, "Great job. Thank you so much."
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: So I want to continue those lines of communication with y'all and I can only see those posts unless we follow you. And unless you're using those hashtags.
John Long: Yeah, that was a good and a plug for me.
Cobie Rutherford: Yep, that's right.
Ellen Graves: I practice it a couple of times.
John Long: Just use the pound sign.
Ellen Graves: You know, that tic-tac-toe, right?
John Long: Yeah, that's right. You know, you got the square and then you got the X and the Os.
Ellen Graves: Right.
John Long: But yeah, thank you so much for that. And Ellen, we thank you for, again, for coming in and being with us today and like I did in the last podcast and we'll let you tell us where we can go to get our information on 4-H and Extension in your area.
Ellen Graves: Thank you, John Long. So everyone please make sure to follow Mississippi 4-H on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat. And then of course you can also follow MSU Extension Service, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and Pinterest. And then we already talked about the hashtags.
John Long: Yes.
Ellen Graves: So use those. And then of course you can look at our website, extension.msstate.edu.
John Long: We need to bring her in every-
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: Can we record that?
Cobie Rutherford: We should record that.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, just make a standard.
John Long: No stipend or royalties...
Ellen Graves: Right, right.
John Long: Alright, well with that, that is another week of 4-H-4-U-2, and I'm your host, John Long.
Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie.
John Long: And we will be back next time with who knows what we're going to be talking about, but we're going to be talking about 4-H and 4-H youth development for sure. Y'all have a good one.
Announcer: Thanks for joining us for 4-H-4-U-2. For more information, please visit extension.msstate.edu and be sure to subscribe to our podcast. 4-H-4-U-2 is produced by the Mississippi State University Extension Service, Office of Agricultural Communications.
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By Mississippi State Extension 4-HEllen Graves is back in the 4-H-4-U-2 studio to talk about the powerful positive impact that 4-H and Social Media has on the youth of today.
Transcript:
Announcer: This is 4-H-4-U-2, a podcast from the Mississippi State University Extension Service promoting 4-H programs and positive youth development. Here now, your hosts, Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: And welcome back to another podcast of 4-H-4-U-2. I'm your host, John Long.
Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: Cobie, we have been sitting here talking for seemingly like an hour to our next guest as a precursor to our show. This is our second podcast with Ellen Graves. How you doing today, Ellen?
Ellen Graves: Doing good.
John Long: Same as you were about 10 minutes ago, I guess.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
John Long: We pretend like there's been some lack in time, anyway. So yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: I wish we'd been recording the whole time. We had some-
Ellen Graves: That's not for people to hear.
John Long: It wasn't anything bad, but it was just like, so not on topic with what we're going to talk about today.
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: It wasn't research based...
Ellen Graves: But y'all were helping make the guest comfortable, right? So that's part of it.
John Long: That's right. Just setting up the whole thing.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right. Celebrities, and favorite people, and movies.
John Long: Movies, yeah.
Ellen Graves: Movies, yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: All good stuff for sure.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, for sure.
John Long: But you made mention of one thing I guess we could lead in with, is about your end course. In the South, we say daddy. So your daddy, go ahead and tell us today cause I thought that was really cool 4-H connection.
Ellen Graves: Okay, yeah. Yeah. So I was telling y'all that in this job I figured out that 4-H is such a great organization to be a part of and I wish I had done it when I was growing up. I was not, unfortunately, in 4-H and I totally wish I had been. But when I got this job, my dad started to regale us of stories when he was in 4-H back in the 60s and early 70s, and because of 4-H he was able to get on his first plane ride ever and go to national 4-H convention in Chicago, maybe. And so, 4-H gave him that first opportunity in his life to get on a plane. And so he's always remembered that. And he won a lot of contests in forestry especially in 4-H and he just loved it so much. And so I think it's cool that I get to work with 4-H now.
John Long: And I said the same thing on an earlier podcast. I was not in 4-H, I really wish I had been.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, I mean I don't think people realize, and I know when I got this job, I think I thought like a lot of people did that, "Oh, it's for kids like showing pigs or cows, horses maybe, but I'm not really into that."
John Long: Which we do, which we do.
Ellen Graves: Right. And that's a very important part of 4-H. You can learn so much through that. But for 4-H has something literally for everybody. And I think one of the biggest things that I think of now is the leadership skills that it gives you, public speaking. Those are things I wish I had done when I was growing up and I wish I had been in 4-H for those things.
John Long: Yeah, for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: So we do a lot of promotional social media with 4-H contests with 4-H different events. Do you think that one day these 4-H’ers will use social media platforms as almost a resume builder to go back and say this is what all I've done?
Ellen Graves: I think that's a cool idea. I've actually never even thought about it that way, but...
John Long: See, here we go again.
Ellen Graves: I know, look at y'all. But yeah...
John Long: Write all this stuff down.
Ellen Graves: I know, these are good ideas. A lot of 4-H’ers I think do use that because you can scroll back to two years ago if you'd been on there long enough and you can see all those posts you did, whether you were at Club Congress or at the state fair, Dixie National, and you really preserve those memories. And I think the cool part about social media is that you preserve the memories and that emotion that you were feeling at that time in your life. You know, looking back years later, you might feel different about it. But the cool thing is when you scroll back, you remember how you felt right in that moment. And I think that's a really cool thing.
John Long: And a few things. If you think life doesn't move fast...
Ellen Graves: Yeah, it does.
John Long: Hey, scroll back...
Ellen Graves: That's right. Preach it. Yeah.
John Long: Yep, that's right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. I think you was just talking about your dad when he was on the plane taking that trip to National 4-H Congress and yeah, I thought, "Well, what was going through his mind if he'd been able to capture that on social media?"
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: That'd have been huge to go back and look at.
Ellen Graves: Oh, I know.
John Long: We had a lady, I can't remember her name, I'm sorry. But anyway, she got to go to DC when she was just a young girl on a train. And that was a big deal for her.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: So it's similar to, you know.
Ellen Graves: Right. Well, and I think too, like we're talking about my dad back in the 60s but even nowadays I mean, kids in 4-H get so many opportunities to go out of the state, see other parts of the world, meet other kids their age from all over. And you're doing that through an organization that you know, and love, and trust.
John Long: That's right.
Ellen Graves: And so I think just the opportunities alone for travel is something that a lot of other organizations for youth cannot offer.
John Long: That's exactly right, exactly right.
Cobie Rutherford: And I think a lot of youth that are going to the national contest right now, all over the country, I think about what kind of experience they're getting. You know, they competed at our State Congress and horticulture judging or consumer judging or whatever it was. And now they're getting to go to a national trip that I mean even John, you mentioned shooting sports on an earlier podcast.
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: What else would take you to Grand Island, Nebraska and have a chance to see that part of the world.
John Long: Exactly.
Cobie Rutherford: Other than shooting sports or, you know maybe livestock.
John Long: Livestock, yeah, for sure.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, and I mean those 4-H'ers that get to go on those trips, it helps them understand there's a whole world out there.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: There's so many opportunities and possibilities for their lives that maybe they just hadn't thought of yet.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so, I mean, you can't put a price on that. 4-H does that for kids. So I think, I don't know, it's just awesome.
John Long: And I think that's important too, to remember the actual experience because, and we'll go back to the podcast we had, part one of Ellen Graves, but when information is so readily available, I mean, look, you don't have to climb to the top of Everest. They got a 360 degree view of Everest, whatever you want to call it. Everything is right there. But if you're not there, if you don't sit there and are able to look at the Grand Canyon face to face, you can't really appreciate it from that standpoint. And I think that goes the same for these trips and everything, you know what I'm saying?
Ellen Graves: Oh yeah, for sure.
John Long: Social media takes us to certain places, but it will never-
Ellen Graves: It can only take you so far.
John Long: That's correct. Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: Ellen, I like how you mentioned a while ago that social media allows us to capture memory but also an emotion. Can you elaborate some more on that?
John Long: Yeah, I wish she would, because I did this, which I'm combing through my beard right now. Go ahead.
Ellen Graves: Yeah. So, I think I get the unique opportunity to see a lot of posts out there about 4-H from our 4-H'ers, from our volunteers, from their parents. And I think one post in particular really sticks out to me, is we have a 4-H'er named Savannah and her mother, we follow her mother, her mother posted a collage picture of Savannah when she was just a kiddo, going to Project Achievement Day. And then she posted a picture from years after that where Savannah was wearing a green jacket and was there as a State Council Officer. And so just look at that post visually and then see in the caption that mother described the transformation that her daughter had gone through and the confidence that she had gained. I mean, makes me look at 4-H and I appreciate my job through their eyes.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: You know, cause I look at a lot of stuff obviously from my angle, from a professional angle, from my work angle, but to see that emotion and that memory through a parent's eyes of her child growing and becoming a great young lady, that's something that I was able to think about because of social media.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I think that's one example. Was that a good answer?
John Long: That is very good.
Cobie Rutherford: That was really good.
John Long: I was going to say it's a virtual record book.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: You know, like a 4-H record book. I mean, you see that progression.
Ellen Graves: Right. And I mean I think 4-H has done a really good job of trying to meet our folks where they're at on social media. So like one of the new things that we've done lately is create a Facebook group for 4-H volunteers. And so they have a space underneath our Facebook page where they can discuss internally what their plans are, updates about different things. So it's a virtual gathering space because as y'all know, our volunteers are stretched throughout the state. So this is a place where we can use technology to help kind of fill in those gaps.
John Long: Yeah. And we did that on the national team this year too.
Ellen Graves: Oh, that's cool.
John Long: There's a Facebook page that a parent had started just for a means of saying, "Hey, this is where we're at and this is what we're doing."
Ellen Graves: Right. That's right.
John Long: So yeah, that makes perfect sense for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: And I like all the new components of social media, like on Facebook or Instagram where you can almost go live, well you can go live, at any place you're at and share your experiences of what you're doing in that moment.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: Yes, yes. And Cobie, give a shout out to him, he is like a master at going Facebook live, Instagram live. He's like so confident about it. So shout out to you.
Cobie Rutherford: Oh my gosh. The first time I did that, I was live at the livestock show going around and talking to the people before-
Ellen Graves: It's that adrenaline rush, isn't it?.
Cobie Rutherford: It is. It was before they walked into the ring for the championship drive at Dixie or State Fair one. And then all of a sudden this calf kicked this kid.
John Long: Oh no.
Ellen Graves: Oh no. Drama.
John Long: No music track.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: And then someone let out a descriptive word at that calf.
John Long: Oh.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: That was probably not social media...
Ellen Graves: Right. Appropriate. Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: So I quickly deleted that.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: And did not share and then started over again.
Ellen Graves: Right. You got to have fast fingers, sometimes on social media.
John Long: Yeah, for sure.
Ellen Graves: But I do think Facebook live, Instagram live, just going live in general and gives us the opportunity to be authentic in a way that we've never been able to do before.
John Long: Yeah, yeah.
Ellen Graves: Because when you think about it, that's just the structure of media. People obviously place so much emphasis on television because they had the ability to go live.
Cobie Rutherford: Right.
Ellen Graves: Whereas now that power is also in the hands of everyday people. And we can argue whether that's good or bad, but I know in 4-H we're using it for good.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: And so I think being able to open up that window to people, being really transparent with them, is a great tool for us.
John Long: I've only been Facebook live one time.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: And it was that...
Ellen Graves: I worry about you sometimes, John. That's all we can do, one time.
John Long: I'm just like, "Oh no, let me get my finger up here." Arthritis. But I was in a tree stand and I just said, "I'm going to try this." And it was like, "Okay well here I am, what do I do now?"
Ellen Graves: Some people are more natural at it than others.
John Long: Yeah, yeah. I guess I'd like it if I did it more but I don't.
Ellen Graves: Practice makes perfect.
Cobie Rutherford: I feel like I need to do a real enthusiastic voice when I do Facebook live. I'm like, "Hey y'all!"
John Long: Trying to drum up some excitement.
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: "This is Cobie Rutherford."
Ellen Graves: Well that's why I like being behind the camera because y'all know my philosophy with the accounts that I manage is like, I never want to make it about me, you know like ever, even though I'm the person behind it kind of operating it.
John Long: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: But that's the funny part, I think, about working with 4-H'ers is that these kids are so naturally inclined to be not nervous in front of the camera.
Ellen Graves: Whereas people, even my age, y'all's age, have kind of a nerve nervous element to going live or getting on video. And so these 4-H'ers have really just embraced it because it's all they've ever known.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so that makes for great social media, so that's good for me.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: Yeah. And I think it helps them kind of watch their actions too.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
Ellen Graves: Right.
John Long: Because now they know that if they do something down the line that anybody anywhere can flip up a camera and video them.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, and I think...
John Long: And it is all over the place.
Cobie Rutherford: Right. And that's, yeah. Like you said, because if something happens or, you know what I mean?
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: It's a different, I don't know, I don't want to say media, but it's a different...
Ellen Graves: But it's a different world because people have the technology at their fingertips to record anything, so-
John Long: Isn't that crazy?
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: And I remember wanting a video camera.
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: That thing was huge as, you know, and now it's in the palm of your hand.
Ellen Graves: Your hand.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And take just as good video.
Ellen Graves: It does.
Cobie Rutherford: What I see is like, and Ellen, please comment on this. Do you see a lot of youth when they're trying to create content, they're trying to put things out there to get likes or make impressions. How important are those to a lot of youth and do a lot of youth take them more serious than they should?
Ellen Graves: So I think that's a great point to bring up. And honestly, when you think about it, we're still really young in the progression of social media. So I know there's a lot of research that has been done, that's going to continue to be done about the effect mentally that social media has on young people and even people our age. And I mean just from, this is Ellen's opinion, my viewpoint on it is that yeah, I think people do take stock in how many likes a picture gets. Because I always tell 4-H'ers in my workshops I do with them is that whether you know it or not, you are a social media strategist. Because like for example, on Instagram, you're thinking about, "Okay, what picture do I want to put up from my camera roll? What filter do I want to use? What kind of caption should it be? This kind of caption or should I make it funny? What hashtag should I put? What emoji should I put with it?" You know, so people are going through the same thought process because they want that post to succeed. Right?
John Long: And if anybody heard the first one, it's called clout.
Ellen Graves: Oh yeah.
John Long: I don't even know what that means.
Ellen Graves: You're becoming a social media strategist.
John Long: I'm sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you, I had to throw that in there.
Ellen Graves: No, it's fine. No, it's fine. And so, I do think that whether young people admit it or not, they do think about that. And it's funny you should bring this up. I actually saw a headline the other day that Instagram is starting to test and roll out a feature where the likes are hidden from public view. So if you put up a picture of yourself, you can see, "Okay, I got 50 likes on it." But someone looking at it from the public's perspective would not know how many likes, and that's an interesting thought because they saying they're basically eliminating the peer pressure of like, "Oh, well 100 people have liked this, so I should too." Or, "Only 20 people liked it, so I'm not going to like it, that's lame." You know? And so I think that's going to be really interesting to see if that actually does come to pass or if it's just something they're testing. So, yeah.
John Long: So it kind of gives them an idea of like making an informed decision instead of a snap decision based on what everybody else has done.
Ellen Graves: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. And it's kind of like you judge yourself against others.
John Long: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: You know, I can put a picture of me and one of my cows or, I'm just being facetious here, but you know somebody else could. And I'm like, "Wow, they got more likes with their cow than I did with mine."
Ellen Graves: Right, right.
John Long: Right.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And I think that happens more times than not. You know, you see that a lot. And it's almost like, I know I catch myself, and I don't know if y'all ever do, but I catch myself saying, "What is the purpose of this other than your glorification?"
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: You know what I'm saying? It's like, "Look what I can do."
Ellen Graves: Well, and it's like a weird line for me because professionally I very much care about analytics and it tells me certain things about our audience and about how I can be changing our content to meet the needs of our audience by paying attention to analytics. But then on the personal side of things, I try to not take that with me.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: I try not to like over analyze my own personal presence on social media.
Cobie Rutherford: Right.
Ellen Graves: But for professional it is really important in my job to understand those things.
John Long: Yeah, I bet it is.
Cobie Rutherford: So how many accounts do you monitor?
Ellen Graves: I told you I wasn't good at math, Cobie.
Cobie Rutherford: I will give you a piece of paper.
Ellen Graves: I know. I don't know. I would say like a rough estimate is that, like I have my hands on probably about 20 accounts. Managing day to day consistently, it's probably about 10. But I have my hands just in a lot of pots I guess would be the best way to describe it. I generally tell people, someone actually asked me this in Sunday school the other day like, "What do you do?" Because I think a lot of times in Extension our job titles can not be very... Some people just don't understand what that means.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I told the person, I think about my role in Extension as I create content and then I also manage accounts and then I also train people in Extension about how to best use social media. So that's kind of the way I think about it. So, yeah, I'm looking at social media every day.
John Long: So let me ask you this, it's a good lead into my next question. Does Ellen Graves ever unplug totally?
Ellen Graves: Oh, there's some days where I wish I could just throw my phone in a river, but then I know I would just jump in right after it.
John Long: Right, right.
Ellen Graves: But it's hard for me to completely unplug. I do try on Sundays not to look at our work accounts and then the only time I can really unplug for an extended amount of time is during our Christmas break because that's the only time long enough where I'm physically not at work.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That I don't have to worry about it as much.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: But you know, the thing I tell folks a lot of times, I feel like in this job in particular, but we all have aspects like this in our own jobs. I don't want to sound like I'm the only one like this. But you know, even when I go home, if someone sends us like a question on our 4-H Facebook page at 8:00 PM, I'm looking at it.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: You know I'm answering it.
John Long: Right. Sure.
Ellen Graves: And so it's kind of like with my job, you can take it with you wherever you go.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so I do have to try to step back at times. As we've said before, I did graduate from Ole Miss. There was one time during where we really lost an Egg Bowl real bad to State and I had to put my phone in a drawer.
John Long: Oh wow, it was blowing up that bad?
Ellen Graves: Yeah.
John Long: Oh wow.
Ellen Graves: It was bad. And so but I do try to unplug around the holidays. But I'm pretty much plugged in all the time.
John Long: Well I think, and you said it is part of your job. What advice would you give to a young person in order to get a healthy balance? Because I just, I mean people are with their heads down.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, yeah.
John Long: I think they're just going to eventually just get a crick in their neck and never going to look up and look around at the world.
Ellen Graves: Right, look at the sunshine. Right.
John Long: Right, exactly. So how does the person do that when it's just so available. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that we need to-
Ellen Graves: Have a good balance.
John Long: Yeah, you're not going to see a sunrise if you're trying to Google one, you know?
Ellen Graves: Right. Well, I think I've been really fortunate to have lived before there was social media, so I had a childhood that was free of a screen, that was free of social media, and I'm really thankful for that. But at the same time, nowadays that's just the world we live in, right?
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That stuff is available to kids. And so I think having that balance of having times in your life during just your normal weekly routine of like, "Okay, the phone, it goes on the dresser drawer at 8:00 PM and I'm not going to look at it after that." You know? And I think honestly, when you're talking about teenagers and kids, you're talking about their parents, right? Because those are the folks who would be obviously setting the rules in the house. And so I think as a parent you have to say, "What are our digital guidelines as a family?"
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And you're setting an example for your children.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And I think adults have to think about that. But I did talk with our 4-H'ers at Co-op and we just kind of had just a time where we just kind of talked with each other about what social media is to them. And I told them, I said, "You know, a lot of adults think that y'all cannot communicate face to face. They think teenagers can't look another adult in the eyeballs and talk to them."
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And that they just, phones and social media have put up a barrier. And the kids really pushed back on that. They said, "We feel very confident about looking people in the eyes and talking to them." And that might be because they're 4-H'ers, right?
John Long: Right, right. I was thinking that.
Ellen Graves: They have the skill set to do that, right. But the other point too they brought up with me is, and I agree with this, is that teenagers and kids in their mind, when they're texting someone when they're Snapchatting someone, that is a friendship.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: That is relationship. It's just in a different way than their parents experienced friendship.
John Long: Right, right.
Ellen Graves: And so it's not that they're just in a world all by themselves. A lot of times they're communicating with their friends through those methods.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so. But to boil it down, I kind of had a rambling answer.
John Long: No, I-
Ellen Graves: You do have to have a balance.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And I think with anything in life, you have to have a balance.
John Long: One thing that I'm seeing more and more of late is the ease, and I'm speaking for myself, the ease of parents. Did you just give a device to a child for a pacifier, for lack of a better words, you know? And then it just becomes such an addiction to where that child, and again moderation in all things, but it becomes just like this, "I got to have, I got to have it, I got to have it." And I think that is a danger for sure.
Ellen Graves: And I think I'm not as well versed in that kind of stuff. I don't have kids myself. And so I haven't had to experience that. But I think the research that folks are doing out there from this generation that's grown up like this will tell us things eventually-
John Long: Right, I agree.
Ellen Graves: About how that's affected them and adulthood and all that.
John Long: Sure.
Ellen Graves: And we'll have to look at what that says. But what I do encourage, parents out there, especially 4-H parents, is that we will definitely want you to post about 4-H-
John Long: Absolutely, absolutely.
Ellen Graves: And about your kids having a great time in 4-H.
John Long: That's right.
Ellen Graves: Because it's always better. We can shout from the rooftops on our 4-H accounts that we have, but it's going to be way more authentic coming from y'all.
John Long: Absolutely.
Ellen Graves: For sure.
John Long: The youth tell the story.
Ellen Graves: That's right.
Cobie Rutherford: And how important is it for them to use the hashtag so you can see what they're talking about?
Ellen Graves: Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Cobie.
John Long: Ellen always has to remind me during annual conference what the hashtag is.
Ellen Graves: I know. It's all right.
John Long: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Ellen Graves: That was part of my job. So #MS4H no dash, just all put together. And then for Extension it's #MSUEXT. And you might say, why is this important for me to use this hashtag? One of the reasons that I've seen is that a lot of 4-H'ers, or even volunteers and parents, will post something about an activity they've done through 4-H but not actually mentioned in the caption that it's 4-H.
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: And so there's this misconception that it's another youth organization out there. And so if you put up your caption and then at the very end just put #MS4H, you're getting that point across to your friends and family that this was done through 4-H. And so that helps our brand grow, just from doing that tiny thing. And then also just from my perspective professionally, it helps me be able to see the amount of posts out there about Mississippi 4-H because-
John Long: ...going back to analytics again.
Ellen Graves: That's right. It gives me a way to aggregate the content that's out there so I can understand what is our audience talking about, what concerns do they have? And I want to make sure that I interact with our 4-H audience through our Mississippi 4-H account. So when you put up a post describing a 4-H experience, I want to like that. I want to, from our 4-H account, I want to say, "Great job. Thank you so much."
John Long: Right.
Ellen Graves: So I want to continue those lines of communication with y'all and I can only see those posts unless we follow you. And unless you're using those hashtags.
John Long: Yeah, that was a good and a plug for me.
Cobie Rutherford: Yep, that's right.
Ellen Graves: I practice it a couple of times.
John Long: Just use the pound sign.
Ellen Graves: You know, that tic-tac-toe, right?
John Long: Yeah, that's right. You know, you got the square and then you got the X and the Os.
Ellen Graves: Right.
John Long: But yeah, thank you so much for that. And Ellen, we thank you for, again, for coming in and being with us today and like I did in the last podcast and we'll let you tell us where we can go to get our information on 4-H and Extension in your area.
Ellen Graves: Thank you, John Long. So everyone please make sure to follow Mississippi 4-H on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat. And then of course you can also follow MSU Extension Service, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and Pinterest. And then we already talked about the hashtags.
John Long: Yes.
Ellen Graves: So use those. And then of course you can look at our website, extension.msstate.edu.
John Long: We need to bring her in every-
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: Can we record that?
Cobie Rutherford: We should record that.
Ellen Graves: Yeah, just make a standard.
John Long: No stipend or royalties...
Ellen Graves: Right, right.
John Long: Alright, well with that, that is another week of 4-H-4-U-2, and I'm your host, John Long.
Cobie Rutherford: And I'm Cobie.
John Long: And we will be back next time with who knows what we're going to be talking about, but we're going to be talking about 4-H and 4-H youth development for sure. Y'all have a good one.
Announcer: Thanks for joining us for 4-H-4-U-2. For more information, please visit extension.msstate.edu and be sure to subscribe to our podcast. 4-H-4-U-2 is produced by the Mississippi State University Extension Service, Office of Agricultural Communications.