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The Problem With Big GTM Agencies ft. Vlada Nesterenko
In today's episode, I chat with Vlada, a self-employed GTM engineer, about working with Clay and lead generation agencies to architect creative multi-channel outreach that's precise in segmentation rather than spray-and-pray - deciding between email, LinkedIn messages, or voice notes based on available prospect data and context.
We explore her creative campaigns including the hardest table she ever built for a company offering US-trained legal talent offshore, using Court Listener (after extensive research to find a cost-effective tool) to scrape newly filed cases with private attorneys, pulling contact information and normalizing case names before launching outreach, and her experience working with small teams where she owned everything from finding tools and APIs to building flows versus large agencies where segmented work (client-facing person, copywriter, executor with playbook triggers) produced fewer results because execution requires understanding the whole interconnected process. Vlada shares her unconventional journey originally from Russia, moving to Italy nine years ago (applying for European passport next year), completing a master's in innovation and entrepreneurship at a top business school, getting offered great jobs but hitting visa sponsorship bottlenecks, returning to Milan and meeting a founder who brought her on as go-to-market manager 2-3 years ago when tools weren't as hot and reply rates on Instantly were much higher, starting freelancing after two founders split ways (not her decision), and learning most from individual clients and small teams while exploring tools beyond Clay and Instantly like Gumloop for automating LinkedIn posting and now building MCP agents. She predicts the timeline is weeks not years, Clay's Sculptor will improve eventually, individuals should explore Instagram DMs/Reddit/WhatsApp Business API and ask ChatGPT for differentiation strategies, companies face harder client acquisition and dropping email deliverability (except experts deeply in the space), LinkedIn voice notes are performing well now, and success means reaching the right person at the right time through creative architecture and exploring unknown APIs and undersaturated markets like the Emirates versus oversaturated American companies. Vlada's advice: don't be afraid - explore new tools, channels, and markets.
Enjoy 🙂
(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:25) What a Self-Employed GTM Engineer Does
(01:30) Rise of Independent GTM Engineers Supporting Agencies
(01:54) Creative Campaign: Court Listener for Newly Filed Legal Cases
(03:17) Emotional Attachment to Clay Tables (Putting in the Work)
(04:23) Finding Underrated Data Sources Nobody Else Uses
(04:40) Small Teams vs Big Teams (Ownership vs Segmented Work)
(05:22) Why Segmented Work Produces Fewer Results
(06:15) Three Pillars: Lead List, Email Infrastructure, Copy
(06:39) Real-Time Data Over Apollo (Right People at Right Time)
(07:25) Journey: From Russia to Italy Nine Years Ago
(07:51) Master's in Innovation, Visa Sponsorship Bottlenecks
(08:11) Starting as Go-to-Market Manager (Tools Weren't Hot Yet)
(08:40) Freelancing After Founders Split Ways
(09:18) Exploring Tools Beyond Clay: Gumloop and MCP Agents
(10:25) Wanting More Than Just Automated Lead Generation
(11:05) Future Prediction: Timeline Is Weeks Not Years
(11:43) Clay Sculptor Will Improve Eventually
(11:57) Advice for Individuals: Learn New Tools and Channels
(12:28) Ask ChatGPT for Differentiation Strategies
(12:45) Companies Face Harder Client Acquisition and Dropping Deliverability
(13:07) LinkedIn Voice Notes Performing Well Now
(13:25) Don't Be Afraid of Unknown APIs and Markets
(14:00) Closing and Contact Information
🔗 CONNECT WITH VLADA
🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV
🎥 YouTube Channel
🐦 X (Twitter)
💻 Website
👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]
🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)
👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.
View all episodes
By Saurav GuptaIn today's episode, I chat with Vlada, a self-employed GTM engineer, about working with Clay and lead generation agencies to architect creative multi-channel outreach that's precise in segmentation rather than spray-and-pray - deciding between email, LinkedIn messages, or voice notes based on available prospect data and context.
We explore her creative campaigns including the hardest table she ever built for a company offering US-trained legal talent offshore, using Court Listener (after extensive research to find a cost-effective tool) to scrape newly filed cases with private attorneys, pulling contact information and normalizing case names before launching outreach, and her experience working with small teams where she owned everything from finding tools and APIs to building flows versus large agencies where segmented work (client-facing person, copywriter, executor with playbook triggers) produced fewer results because execution requires understanding the whole interconnected process. Vlada shares her unconventional journey originally from Russia, moving to Italy nine years ago (applying for European passport next year), completing a master's in innovation and entrepreneurship at a top business school, getting offered great jobs but hitting visa sponsorship bottlenecks, returning to Milan and meeting a founder who brought her on as go-to-market manager 2-3 years ago when tools weren't as hot and reply rates on Instantly were much higher, starting freelancing after two founders split ways (not her decision), and learning most from individual clients and small teams while exploring tools beyond Clay and Instantly like Gumloop for automating LinkedIn posting and now building MCP agents. She predicts the timeline is weeks not years, Clay's Sculptor will improve eventually, individuals should explore Instagram DMs/Reddit/WhatsApp Business API and ask ChatGPT for differentiation strategies, companies face harder client acquisition and dropping email deliverability (except experts deeply in the space), LinkedIn voice notes are performing well now, and success means reaching the right person at the right time through creative architecture and exploring unknown APIs and undersaturated markets like the Emirates versus oversaturated American companies. Vlada's advice: don't be afraid - explore new tools, channels, and markets.
Enjoy 🙂
(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:25) What a Self-Employed GTM Engineer Does
(01:30) Rise of Independent GTM Engineers Supporting Agencies
(01:54) Creative Campaign: Court Listener for Newly Filed Legal Cases
(03:17) Emotional Attachment to Clay Tables (Putting in the Work)
(04:23) Finding Underrated Data Sources Nobody Else Uses
(04:40) Small Teams vs Big Teams (Ownership vs Segmented Work)
(05:22) Why Segmented Work Produces Fewer Results
(06:15) Three Pillars: Lead List, Email Infrastructure, Copy
(06:39) Real-Time Data Over Apollo (Right People at Right Time)
(07:25) Journey: From Russia to Italy Nine Years Ago
(07:51) Master's in Innovation, Visa Sponsorship Bottlenecks
(08:11) Starting as Go-to-Market Manager (Tools Weren't Hot Yet)
(08:40) Freelancing After Founders Split Ways
(09:18) Exploring Tools Beyond Clay: Gumloop and MCP Agents
(10:25) Wanting More Than Just Automated Lead Generation
(11:05) Future Prediction: Timeline Is Weeks Not Years
(11:43) Clay Sculptor Will Improve Eventually
(11:57) Advice for Individuals: Learn New Tools and Channels
(12:28) Ask ChatGPT for Differentiation Strategies
(12:45) Companies Face Harder Client Acquisition and Dropping Deliverability
(13:07) LinkedIn Voice Notes Performing Well Now
(13:25) Don't Be Afraid of Unknown APIs and Markets
(14:00) Closing and Contact Information
🔗 CONNECT WITH VLADA
🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV
🎥 YouTube Channel
🐦 X (Twitter)
💻 Website
👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]
🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)
👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.