The Pudding

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/transformative

In this episode, Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison sit down with Meghan Gardner, CEO of Guardian Adventures and a pioneer in transformative game design. With over 25 years of experience - ranging from running LARP (Live Action Role Playing) camps to speaking at the UN General Assembly - Meghan shares a repeatable framework for turning standard camp activities into life-changing experiences. The conversation explores how "framing" an experience through invitation, calibration, and debriefing can lead to a sustained change in behavior. Meghan also dives into the concept of "alibi" in role-play, the importance of de-escalation training for staff, and how camp directors can move away from hierarchical power structures to truly empower their counselors and campers.

• 04:09 Belonging and Camp Growth
• 08:36 Defining Transformative Games
• 10:30 Framing and Calibration
• 19:00 Debrief Tools
• 25:37 Power and Empowerment
• 28:09 Roleplay Based Staff Training
• 32:07 Designing Better Scenarios
• 35:34 Apply Training Beyond Camp

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Meghan Gardner, CEO, Guardian Adventures

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Full show notes: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/indigenous-perspective-doing-good-works

This episode of The Pudding features Dr. Dan Henhawk, a Mohawk scholar and assistant professor at the University of Manitoba. Dan speaks to Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison about how camps can engage truth-telling about Indigenous experiences and knowledges. Dan describes his own journey of becoming aware and decolonizing his own thinking about sport in Indigenous communities and embracing notions of relationality. He illustrates how many Indigenous languages are heavily verb-based reflecting the interconnectedness of all beings and how we act in relation to one another. The conversation highlights cultural appropriation in camps (e.g., mock regalia and drumming, and decontextualized canoeing, lacrosse, and outdoor skills) and discusses how camps might engage truth and reconciliation, while cautioning against pan-Indigenous generalizations and romanticism. The podcast concludes by discussing “the thanksgiving address” (Kimmerer, 2013), a practice of expressing gratitude at the beginning of each day for the many resources the land gives - recognising that many camps use similar practices and deserve to give credit to Indigenous knowledge and teachings that have been adopted into summer camp culture.

• 00:24 Meet the Hosts and Dan’s Progression to Research
• 04:11 Contrasting Head Thinks of Indigenous and Settler Knowledge Systems
• 09:54 The Problem of “Pan Indigenous” Generalizations
• 16:38 Identifying Appropriation in Camp Culture
• 25:25 Truth and Reconciliation Actions for Camps
• 31:59 Relationality and Daily Practice
• 36:59 Recognizing Indigeneity in Settler/Colonial Society
• 40:06 Thanksgiving and the Teachings of Corn
• 43:11 Future Directions & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]

Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]

Dan Henhawk - Assistant Professor - University of Manitoba - [email protected]

Additional Links of Interest: Braiding Sweetgrass - Books by Robin Wall Kimmerer

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

*This is a piece of sponsored content by our friends from Camptivities and Whereabouts. We are so grateful for Ryan and the Camptivities team for their support of many Go Camp Pro podcasts and we're excited to bring you this episode to share more about Whereabouts and it's intentional design - Check them out whereaboutsapp.io*

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In this episode, Travis sits down with Ryan Rosen, a 28-year camp veteran and owner of a premier Los Angeles day camp, to discuss the intersection of "tech-free" camp philosophy and high-efficiency logistics. Ryan shares the origin story of Whereabouts, an innovative app designed to bridge the communication gap between parents and camp offices. From the "Spirit of Kaizen" to real-time attendance reconciliation, this conversation explores how small, iterative improvements in camp tech can lead to massive gains in safety, staff sanity, and parent satisfaction.

Key Takeaways include:

• The Spirit of Kaizen: Success isn't always about massive overhauls; it’s about the "incremental improvement" of systems. By questioning why "we’ve always done it this way," directors can identify stagnant procedures - like where T-shirts are handed out or how attendance is taken - and refine them for a better experience.
• Closing the "Lunchtime Gap": Many camps don't fully reconcile bus lists with group rosters until midday. Ryan explains how real-time widgets allow directors to know exactly who is on-site before the morning assembly even ends, meeting modern parent expectations for safety and transparency.
• Passive vs. Active Engagement: There is a fine line between "convenient" tech and "isolating" tech. Ryan discusses moving away from passive check-ins (like unattended QR codes) toward "human-powered" technology that prompts staff with camper birthdays or medical alerts during the check-in process.
• Empowering Gen-Z and Alpha Staff: Modern summer staff are digital natives. Asking them to manage complex paper-and-pen systems often leads to errors. Providing them with intuitive, mobile-first tools like Whereabouts aligns with their skills and reduces operational friction.
• Tech-Enabled Emergency Safety: Beyond daily attendance, the episode highlights the importance of "Emergency Pods." In the event of a wildfire or evacuation, having a cellular-connected system to track which kids are on which bus in real-time is a critical safety upgrade for any modern camp.

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Thanks to Camptivities and Whereabouts for sponsoring!

Your mission is campers. Ours is making their experience coordinated and connected.

Whereabouts is the only camper management system that keeps Parents, Admin, and Staff in sync in real time - so every camper’s day runs with confidence, clarity, and care. Check them out at whereaboutsapp.io

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/youth-as-co-creators

In this episode, Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison interview Alayna Schmidt, a PhD candidate at Clemson University. Alayna’s research focuses on empowering youth as co-creators in camp settings and integrating justice-centered environmental education. She discusses her journey into research and the significant impact of youth participatory action research. The conversation shifts towards the historical and cultural aspects of summer camps, highlighting the pervasiveness of white supremacy in culture. The podcast shares practical strategies for camp professionals to advance equity without overwhelming staff, including youth engagement in decision-making processes and restorative justice approaches.

• 00:00 Introductions & Alayna’s Pathway to Camp Research
• 03:13 Sneak Peeks of Youth Participatory Action Research
• 05:17 Exploring Black Feminist Theory
• 08:02 Addressing White Supremacy in Camp Culture
• 21:00 Thoughtful Change of Traditions
• 23:13 Practical Steps for Advancing Equity in Camps
• 29:12 How to “Call Someone In” - Using Social Capital
• 32:33 Future Directions & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Alayna Schmidt, PhD Candidate, Clemson University - [email protected]

 Additional Links of Interest

• REYSE Collaboratory
• Alayna’s Website
• Toolkit: Racial Healing and Youth Development

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/turner-and-maslow-to-transformation-and-magic

In this episode, Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison interview Star Wilkes, Lecturer in Special Education, Disability, and Inclusion Studies at the University of Wolverhampton. Star shares her journey from working at a special needs camp in America to becoming a researcher and university lecturer in the UK. She explains her research based on sending her students to work for an American camp. Drawing on surveys, weekly journal entries and interviews, Star explores the links between liminal communities (Turner) and “peak experiences” (Maslow). Star reflects on the importance of reflective practices and mentoring cultures in enhancing the camp experience for staff and campers alike. The episode concludes on Star's future plans to publish her findings and explore the recipe for “camp magic” further.

• 00:19 Meet the Hosts and Star’s Journey to Camp Research
• 08:51 Star’s Study on Camp Staff Diaries
• 11:15 Unpacking the Concept of Liminality (Turner)
• 22:01 Durkheim’s “Collective Effervescence”
• 24:59 Maslow’s “Peak Experiences”
• 29:39 Star’s Students at Camp & Further Research Goals
• 35:53 Key Weeks with Shared Experiences
• 37:12 Future Directions & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Star Wilkes, Lecturer in Special Educational Needs, Disability and Inclusion Studies, University of Wolverhampton - [email protected]

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/leadership-beyond-the-binary

In this episode of The Pudding, hosts Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison interview Dr. Kiah DeVona, a recent PhD graduate from the University of Connecticut. Kiah discusses her research on gender and leadership in camp settings, notably focusing on how camps can support women and non-binary individuals in leadership roles and the impact of gender stereotypes on leaders in day camps. The team also explores the broader implications of leadership structures and the importance of fostering an inclusive and supportive environment for all genders in camp leadership.

• 00:00 Meet the Hosts & Kiah’s Path to Camp Research
• 02:35 Exploring Gender Stereotypes and Leadership in Camps
• 09:26 The Importance of Traditionally “Feminine” Leadership Skills
• 15:24 Promoting Inclusive Leadership at Camps
• 21:22 Shifting Thinking Around Leadership Styles
• 27:18 Communicating Safety & Care Over Fun to Parents
• 30:57 Encouraging Women and Non-Binary Leaders
• 32:29 Future Directions & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Dr. Kiah DeVona, Adjunct Faculty, UConn Neag School of Education - [email protected]

Additional Links of Interest

• Kiah DeVona on Google Scholar

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/sensory-journeys-freedom-in-play

In this episode of The Pudding, Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison discuss with Prof. Neil Carr, from the Dept of Tourism at the University of Otago (New Zealand), the role of inclusivity in outdoor leisure. They explore Neil's journey into academia, his research on tourism and leisure, and the evolution of outdoor leisure studies. Key highlights include the importance of sensory engagement in leisure, traditional structures of camps, and the need to allow children freedom and control in their play. They discuss Mandi and Neil’s latest book collaboration on inclusion and equity in outdoor leisure that features a diverse range of voices and perspectives.

• 00:24 Meet the Hosts and Neil’s Journey in Academia
• 04:25 Philosophical Differences of Tourism vs. Leisure
• 12:03 Neil’s Inspiration for Sensory Experiences in Leisure
• 14:41 Integrating All Senses for an Inclusive Experience
• 19:54 Who is Camp Really For?
• 26:22 The Transformative Power of Novelty
• 32:01 Inclusion and Equity in Outdoor Leisure
• 36:16 Beyond Human Beings: Interactions with Nature
• 40:05 Structure vs. Play in Shaping Society of Tomorrow
• 45:04 Episode Wrap-Up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Neil Carr - Professor, Department of Tourism, University of Otago - [email protected]

Additional Links of Interest

• Neil Carr on Google Scholar
• Inclusion and Equity in Outdoor Leisure: Whose Body Belongs?

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/communities-of-campfires-and-kickball

In this episode of The Pudding, hosts Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison talk to Dr. Mary Breunig, an associate professor in the Department of Recreation, Parks, and Tourism Administration. Dr. Breunig shares her journey from flute performance to outdoor education to kickball den mother, emphasizing the transformative power of camp experiences. The conversation covers topics such as the significance of camp in personal development, the differences between guiding and educating, and the importance of diverse recruitment in camp staff. Dr. Breunig also discusses her research interests, including neoliberalism in education and leisure as the center of community. The episode concludes with insights into social justice education and the impact of outdoor education on both students and staff.

• 00:19 Meet the Hosts and Dr. Breunig’s Journey
• 07:04 Current Research and Interests
• 10:05 Kickball as Community and Introduction to Neoliberalism
• 15:31 Teaching Social Justice to Disenfranchised Students
• 19:39 Putnam's Theory on the Decline of Community
• 22:15 Outdoor Education in the DNA of Camp
• 24:23 Holding a Non-profit Ethos in a For-profit Business
• 26:05 Case Study: Extroversion and Introversion in Camp Staff
• 32:14 Future Plans and Reflections
• 34:09 Recommended Researchers to Follow & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Dr. Mary Breunig - Associate Professor, Department of Recreation, Park & Tourism Administration - CSU-Sacramento - [email protected]

Additional Links of Interest

• Dr. Mary Breunig on Google Scholar

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/camp-as-a-sacred-playground

In this episode of The Pudding, hosts Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison speak with Jake Sorenson, founder and director of Sacred Playgrounds, to explore the impacts of Christian summer camps. Jake, a seasoned expert with over 20 years of experience, explains how Sacred Playgrounds uses data to tell compelling stories and improve camp and youth ministries. The conversation delves into the five fundamental characteristics of effective Christian faith-based camps: being unplugged from home; participatory; relational; a safe space; and faith-centred. For camps that are not faith-based, what is that alternative fifth pillar of effectiveness? Jake discusses the importance of creating environments where campers feel safe to explore big questions about faith and identity. Jake, also, emphasizes the need for continuous improvement in camp practices. 

Episode Guide

• 00:41 Meet the Hosts and Jake’s Sacred Playgrounds
• 02:52 The Concept of Ministry in Camps
• 06:42 Jake's Personal Journey and Research Focus
• 09:39 Key Characteristics of Christian Summer Camps
• 16:16 Fostering Intentional Camp Experiences & Reimagining Camp Traditions
• 26:16 Creating Safe Spaces in Faith-Based Camps
• 30:50 The Power and Vulnerability of Camp Leadership
• 38:45 Metrics of Success in Camping
• 45:19 Recommended Researchers to Follow & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Dr. Jake Sorenson, Founder, Sacred Playgrounds -  [email protected]

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.

Find full show notes and links at: https://gocamp.pro/the-pudding/decoding-how-camp-helps-kids-find-themselves

In this episode of 'The Pudding', hosts Dr. Mandi Baker and Travis Allison delve into the work of Dr. Barry Garst, a Professor at Clemson University in Youth Development Programs. Dr. Garst shares his journey into camp research, discussing his background and various projects that analyze the transformative impact of camp on youth development. The discussion also explores the importance of digital empathy for connecting campers and staff. Dr. Garst also highlights the Journal of Youth Development's role in bridging research and practice in youth development and offers insights on key issues that need more attention in camp studies. 

Episode Guide

• 00:56 Meet Dr. Barry Garst: Youth Development Expert
• 04:02 Exploring the Identity Ladder of Social Learning
• 09:09 Camp’s Impact Long-Term & Emerging Issues in Research
• 16:58 Digital Empathy and the MyView Tool
• 22:21 Data Collection and Analysis Challenges
• 31:57 Researcher Parents’ Perspective on Camper Data Collection
• 45:41 The Journal of Youth Development
• 51:29 Recommended Researchers to Follow & Episode Wrap-up

Your Hosts

• Dr. Mandi Baker, Researcher - Summer Camp, Outdoor Recreation, Sociology and Hospitality/Tourism - [email protected]
• Travis Allison, Summer Camp Consultant - Go Camp Pro - [email protected]
• Dr. Barry Garst, Professor & Coordinator - Clemson University - [email protected]

Additional Links of Interest

• Dept of Parks, Recreation and Tourism at Clemson University https://www.clemson.edu/cbshs/departments/prtm/index.html
• Journal of Youth Development https://jyd.pitt.edu/ojs/jyd
• Alliances for Camp Health https://allianceforcamphealth.org/
• American Camps Association- Research Evaluation Advisory Council https://www.acacamps.org/research/help-camp-research/research-evaluation-advisory-committee

The American Camp Association - Illinois

The American Camp Association of Illinois is made up of nearly 289,000 members, volunteers, campers, families, and professionals who believe in the power of camp. We work to disrupt the effects of poverty by providing fundamental services for children and families, and learning opportunities for camp professionals. Learn more about ACA Illinois by visiting acail.org.

Camptivities

You know the impact you want camp to make in a child’s life. But figuring out the day-to-day details can be overwhelming. Let Camptivities help you make that impact by streamlining the creation of your camp activity schedules. Schedule a demo at camptivities.com.