Katherine Compitus, a Dr. of Clinical Social Work, and Assistant Professor at New York University joins Mary Lou Davidson to discuss the mental health aspects of what is known as Noah’s Syndrome. There are three unique types of this syndrome:
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What happens to the person once discovered? How can we spot an animal hoarder in the making? What needs to be done to prevent animal hoarding.
Join us for this enlightening chat.
Mary Lou Davidson4:57 – 5:33
Hey, welcome to the rover. Reporter I’m Mary Lou Davidson, and today we’re going to be talking about a complex issue dealing with humans and animals that we’ve all heard about in the news. It’s called animal hoarding, and we’re joined by Dr. Kathy Compitus. She is a doctor of clinical social work, and she’s really dug into this issue. She’s also an assistant professor at New York University. She’s done tons of research, and she’s going to help us unpack animal hoarding. Welcome, Kathy. Hi, thank you.
Mary Lou Davidson5:34 – 6:06
Know this is such a complex issue and it’s an awful situation for both humans and animals. There’s a phrase that’s bandied about I’m not sure if you coined it or not, but it’s called the you know, it evokes sort of positive vibes because we all think of Noah trying to save all the species. But tell me about that. Sure, I would love to take credit, but I did not invent Noah syndrome.
Noah syndrome traditionally implies that there’s more of a biological component to this condition. And yes, absolutely, we like to think of Noah as rescuing all these animals. But the reality of the story is that he passed a lot of animals into a small boat or a big boat, but still he packed a lot of animals. So the idea is that Noah’s syndrome is a nicer way to describe animal hoarding, because I think there’s such a negative connotation when we say animal hoarding and we neglect to remember that this is a serious mental health condition. It’s a syndrome, it’s an illness and it is something that we need to treat and respectfully rather than just reject and marginalize the people who suffer. Right.
Mary Lou Davidson7:15 – 7:24
And Noah’s syndrome isn’t really one size fits all hoarders. There are different types. Can you get into that with us?
Absolutely. So firstly, I just want to mention that animal hoarding is not just about having a large number of animals, really. There’s no set number that people have agreed on, really. It is somebody who has a large number of animals, but that also lacks the insight to realize that they are unable to care for these animals. So somebody can have a large number of animals and care for them very well. A lot of rescue organizations do this. But when somebody has the situation that deteriorates into complete squalor, neglect, unsanitary living conditions, that’s when a regular companion animal or farm animal, it could be any species, that’s when it turns to hoarding as opposed to just rescuing. So there are a couple of types of hoarders. So the three main types of animal hoarders that we like to describe, one is the overwhelmed caregiver. So it is somebody who essentially has pets and they get a few more, a few more and it just gets out of their control. So sometimes these are people that may be caring for the animals very well, but then suffer from a serious physical illness such as cancer, where they might be undergoing chemotherapy or something like that, and they are no longer able to care for the animals. So, like I said, it starts off a quite normal situation and then deteriorates into this really awful squalor situation where the people suffer and the animals suffer because if they’re unable to care for them, there’s urine everywhere, species, very unsanitary living conditions. The next type that we like to describe is the rescue hoarder. So these are animal sanctuaries rescue groups, which normally should be putting the care of the animals as a priority. That’s the number one priority. But again, if they are unable to say no to people and have healthy boundaries and they just accept in every animal that needs their help with good intentions, most hoarders have very good intentions. So the rescue groups, they might just accept, accept, accept, and then they are unable to keep up either financially or physically with the demands of caring for so many animals. And then the third type is the exploiter hoarder. This is technically a hoarder, but really they fit more of the criteria for an antisocial personality disorder. These are people that collect animals just to exploit the having of these animals. So look at these cute puppies I have. Don’t you want to donate money to their care? And they really don’t care about the condition of the animals. Most legit rescue groups and sanctuaries, they have to rely on donations. So when you donate, it goes to the animals. It goes to a good cause. The exploiter, as the name says, exploits kindness exploits the needs of legit, sanctuaries and rescue groups and puts the money in their pockets. Right? So is there any overall federal agency that regulates 501 or rescue groups?
Theoretically 501 are regulated. You can lose your nonprofit status. But really, as far as I know and I’m not saying it doesn’t exist I’m just saying as far as I know really the Department of Environmental Conservation, Mental Health and Hygiene, all these organizations are so spread thin that they are unable to do regular checks on all the rescue groups that exist. And most rescue groups again, do really good work. It is just when kind of think of it as a perfect storm when the situation gets to a point where it starts to deteriorate and then it snowballs. A great example is spaying and neutering animals. For example, during COVID there was a lot of veterinary clinics were not spaying and neutering. They said it was an elective surgery. And so there were quite a few people who wanted to get their animals bay and neutered but they had limited options because of this because people were trying not to pass COVID around and so the animals multiplied and then they went from a normal caretaking situation to overwhelmed caregiver, right?
Mary Lou Davidson13:16 – 13:46
Right. So when a situation is exposed or discovered we’ll often see the local news guys out there with pictures and the rescue groups and shelters come together to help get the animals off to medical care and hopefully to be rehomed. Sometimes the people are prosecuted and sometimes they just kind of fade away. You don’t hear about them.
Mary Lou Davidson13:47 – 13:56
Is there a next step after that is automatically invoked when someone is doing this?
So unfortunately a lot of times there is not a next step. If they are legally prosecuted then mental health treatment may be court mandated but a lot of times it is just punished as animal cruelty and the mental health component is fairly neglected. So with animal hoarding, unfortunately there tends to be 100% rate of recidivism meaning that the people start hoarding animals for various reasons. They get discovered, they tend to isolate and become more secretive as it happens. Think about it. If your house is a little dirty you tend to not want guests over, right? So when their house really deteriorates into a squalor situation they isolate more and more. They also don’t want people to take their animals, right? So they become very isolated, very secretive. When they do get discovered what tends to happen is sanitation comes in, law enforcement comes in, the justice system gets involved. Animal rescue groups come in. They take care of the animals. They take the animals out which are suffering very severe health and behavioral problems at this point. They take care of the house itself because it’s often dilapidated and completely unlivable. Often they become condemned properties. They move the person. They may get them some case management so help them find housing or public assistance kind of thing if they need it. But a lot of times the mental health component just falls by the wayside because there’s so many other things going on and it’s getting all these agencies to work together. It’s like herding cats, right? So it’s hard to get everybody to be on the same page. And so 100% rate of recidivism, they tend to move locations and they start doing it again because they’re not receiving the mental health treatment that they need. And there is no list, a national list of hoarding violators?
Not that I know of. Animal cruelty depending on the type can be a federal offense. And there are different states that are trying to keep lists of animal cruelty cases. But they’re not differentiating so much from somebody who has a serious mental illness, good intentions, right? Often they have this savior complex. They’ve suffered trauma themselves. These are trauma survivors often who want to save these innocent animals the way they were not saved themselves.
So they are not these antisocial personalities that are purposefully hurting animals. They really simply don’t have the insight. They don’t realize what they are doing is harmful. Which is hard to believe because when you see these cases the animals are in such bad condition. But that’s what kind of proves that it’s a mental health case, it’s a delusion, but they simply are lumped in with the malicious offenders. And there is no one big database. A lot of people are moving for an animal cruelty database even on the federal level. But again, they’re not differentiating between the types of cruelty.
Mary Lou Davidson17:59 – 18:13
We’ve talked a little bit about how people start to be less inclusive and wanting to isolate more. But how do we spot a hoarder in the making among our friends or neighbors, right?
Absolutely. The first sign would normally be a large number of animals. But like I said, that in itself is not criteria. If the animals are going to the vet, often spayed and neutered, if the care of the animals is the priority for this person, if they are able to financially maintain these animals, if their house is sanitary and clean, then this is not a hoarding situation, right? You absolutely said it’s. Somebody who is isolating more and more. Their house perhaps is filthy. They don’t want people over a lot of times, like I said, these are people who have suffered some sort of trauma or significant loss. I certainly don’t want to put any stereotypes out there because there are different types, different populations, different demographics that can hoard. But statistically, the majority of people who hoard animals are women in their 60s. They usually have had the sudden loss of their partner or spouse. They have hoarded for about 20 years. This is not something that happens overnight. On average 20 years. And they have usually about 40 animals or more. What we find happens is that they will say they have 40 animals, but they simply lost count. So they’ll say they’re 40 will go into the houses and they will have 60. Right, yeah.
Mary Lou Davidson20:05 – 20:39
And I think also, as friends and just humans, we have to be respectful. And if we have a friend, let’s say that we know is a cat lover, and we find a cat, a kitten outside, not to just drop it off with our friend knowing she’ll take it because be contributing to the overwhelm, and obviously we don’t want to go there. Speaking of cats, it seems like there’s the crazy cat lady phrase. Right, right.
It seems like cats would be more likely to be hoarded.
Mary Lou Davidson20:43 – 20:45
Is there any truth to that?
There are very few actual formal studies done on animal hoarding. Again, because there are no databases, no national databases. Right. The rescue groups are not collecting the type of information we need because they’re more interested in rescuing the animals. So it is hard to figure out. It is slightly easier to hoard cats than dogs, for example. Cats are smaller. They move around a lot more. Right. Rather, they don’t bark, they’re more quiet. Right. So it’s more covert. Absolutely. But certainly there are plenty of people who hoard dogs, rabbits, guinea pigs, even farm animals. There’s a case in Asia where a woman has she started rescuing feral cows and it has absolutely deteriorated into a hoarding situation. And people are trying to rescue the cows, and she says, but they’re my family. I sink to them, which is beautiful, but they are suffering from malnutrition and hoof rot and they really need to be rescued. So she is unable to see it. So cats in some ways can be easier, but it certainly is not the only animal. But you did hit it on the nail that people who hoard animals do tend to prefer one species. So somebody who hoards cats tends to only have cats. Not that they can’t have other animals in the house, sometimes they do, but they tend to prefer one species over another.
Mary Lou Davidson22:43 – 23:18
Right. So you’ve dedicated your career to sorry, we’ll just stop it there. I thought I turned it down. So, okay, let’s start that over. You’ve dedicated your career to human behavior and the human animal bond, but you also have a big commitment to critters. I see people with four legs walking around in the background. So tell us a little bit about your you have a sanctuary, right? I do.
Well, I have a 501 sanctuary, and my house is extremely clean, I’ll say that. And yes, you might hear Mike Whale chirping in the background periodically, which I gave him twice, but he’s talkative today. Yes. So essentially it is a micro sanctuary. We do not accept animals from the public. And you’re absolutely right. People will say, you have a sanctuary, here’s a cat, here’s a dog. And I have to say, no. All the time, you have to be comfortable saying no. And I want to help the animals. Right. But I cannot do more than I can do. So we have a sanctuary, and it is a micro farm sanctuary. We have cows, pigs, pigeons, quails, bunnies, cats, dogs. But we are very much dedicated to studying the human animal bond and promoting the human animal bond. And as a psychotherapist, I’ve done a lot of work in animal assisted therapy with trauma survivors. So we just are interested in looking more at the healing power of pets. And it’s a subset of what we call ecotherapy right. How being connected to nature is healthy for us.
Mary Lou Davidson24:54 – 25:45
I’d love to have you back at some time in the future and talk about that because I think it’s something that we all experienced just the joy of going for a walk during COVID which we probably didn’t do because we were so busy walking to that destination that we had to. Right. Well, Kathy, thank you so much. Your expertise is greatly appreciated, and I hope that this helps people have a better understanding and be more compassionate towards those folks that suffer and, of course, always help the animals. Thanks for listening to the Rover reporter. We’ll see everyone next time.
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