Why do so many women work harder… and still end up underpaid?

In this episode, Betsy sits down with Bhavana Smith, founder of Until There Are Nine, to talk about negotiation, self-advocacy, promotions, and the quiet ways women are taught to stay grateful instead of ask for more. Bhavana shares the personal experience that changed everything for her — a job conversation that led to an almost 70% increase in salary and sparked the mission behind her work helping women advocate for the pay and recognition they’ve earned.

She explains why the gender pay gap is not always about one big obvious moment, but often a pattern: women not negotiating, not understanding pay ranges, not speaking up early enough, or assuming good work will naturally lead to better compensation. Betsy and Bhavana also unpack the role managers play, why timing matters more than people realize, and how visibility across an organization impacts promotions and raises.

You’ll Learn

• Why women often advocate well for everyone except themselves
• How timing and company context can make or break the conversation
• Why raises and promotions are often decided before review season
• How to build visibility without feeling like you’re bragging
• Why companies need clearer compensation strategy and transparency
• How to make a fact-based case for more money and growth

Links

Until There Are Nine

Loud & Lifted Podcast