The Inclusion Bites Podcast

The Science of Workplace Equity

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Behavioural Science and the Eight Inclusion Needs

Dr. Liz Wilson unpacks the behavioural science underpinning workplace equity, exploring how systems, culture, and inclusion needs converge to create environments where everyone can thrive, challenge, and reshape the status quo.

In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood invites Dr. Liz Wilson to explore the science underpinning workplace equity. The discussion moves beyond surface-level diversity initiatives, investigating how behavioural science and systems thinking can drive sustainable inclusion. Liz and Joanne challenge the conventional notion that changing minds is at the heart of equity work, instead focusing on establishing organisational architectures and everyday practices that reinforce inclusive behaviour. The conversation is both practical and provocative, offering listeners a fresh perspective on why so many DEI initiatives falter and what truly makes change stick — all illustrated through lively anecdotes and relatable metaphors, from medieval castles to the humble Marmite.

Liz is a behavioural scientist and strategic inclusion expert whose career has spanned two decades of organisational culture transformation. With a PhD focused precisely on behavioural science and cultural change in the workplace, as well as a wealth of global consulting experience, Liz has dedicated her life to designing evidence-based frameworks that help organisations turn equity from aspiration into practice. Her unique superpower lies in transforming personal adversity into a global mission, drawing from a lived experience that includes navigating ADHD and chronic pain. Currently based in Denver, Colorado, Liz’s pragmatic yet empathetic approach resonates with teams and leaders worldwide, equipping them to foster environments where everyone can thrive.

The episode unpacks the pitfalls of tackling inclusion through a fragmented, label-by-label approach, advocating instead for a universal framework: the eight inclusion needs of all people. Liz explains why recruitment should never be the first step and how overlooked systems shape whether diverse talent stays and succeeds. Both Joanne and Liz tackle the recent backlash against DEI efforts, dissecting the psychology of resistance and the importance of reaching “centrist” ground for sustainable progress. Metaphors about buffets and castles bring humour and clarity to complex dilemmas, while candid discussion about lived experience, intersectionality, and resilience makes the science of equity feel both urgent and utterly human.

A key takeaway from this episode is that genuine workplace equity is neither accidental nor achievable through goodwill alone. It requires robust systems, everyday behavioural reinforcements, and a universal, intersectional lens. Listeners will leave with practical insight into making inclusion tangible—whatever their starting point—and the sense that, with the right tools, meaningful cultural transformation is truly within reach.

 
Published: 15.05.2025
Recorded: 11.02.2025
Duration: 1:05:20
 
Shownotes:
  • AI Extracts and Interpretations
  • The Inclusion Bites Podcast #159 The Science of Workplace Equity
  • Other Links
  • SEE Change Happen: The Inclusive Culture Experts
    — seechangehappen.co.uk
  • Inclusion Bites Podcast on YouTube
    Clips and Timestamps

    Viral Topic: The True Source of Workplace Culture

    “It starts at the team culture level level, and that can be created remotely.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:04:36 → 00:04:40]

    Viral Topic: The Truth About Organisational Change

    “You actually can’t change people’s beliefs or values.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:06:29 → 00:06:32]

    Building Inclusion into Organisational Systems: “If you want to succeed in this organization and get past go and continue around the board, you have to complete this step. And so that step, whatever that is, if you were trying to create more inclusive organization, for instance, since we’re on an inclusion bites podcast, we put an inclusive step in that is required to continue on that pathway, whether that’s in a process in a talent acquisition cycle, or if it’s in the business case and project cycle, whatever it is, that is the system.”

    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:08:17 → 00:08:45]

    Viral Topic: How Fast Can Pay Equity Really Be Achieved?: “Well, you know, I could do the data analysis within forty eight hours and then, you know, within a week, I could pretty much make sure all of the pays are rectified and then give me a, I don’t know, a few months to change processes and procedures that whole system to ensure it doesn’t flex back.”

    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:13:13 → 00:13:30]

    Viral Topic: The Limits of Label-Based Inclusion

    “There’s only so much airspace. You end up overwhelming people with the communications and ultimately you’re trying to achieve the same thing. You’re all trying to create inclusion.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:18:15 → 00:18:26]

    Viral Topic: Inclusion Is About More Than Race

    “Inclusion and diversity is about more than race or a colour of a skin. Okay. So now we’re just lowering that and they say, oh, I’ve got chronic pain too. Or like I had a learning difficulty at school and, you know, so it was, you know, you start to get to that point and then I go, right, let’s look at these eight inclusion needs of all people.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:23:50 → 00:24:09]

    Viral Move for Impact: “I figured if I’m gonna make a bigger impact, I’ve gotta move here.”

    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:29:22 → 00:29:25]

    Global Inclusion Challenges: “You can’t even legally be yourself and it becomes, you can’t actually talk about creating an inclusive environment by using the words.”

    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:33:03 → 00:33:12]

    Viral Topic: The Ripple Effect on Inclusion Work

    Quote: “Then last week, two of my smaller organizations, but still in, in The US small organizations have thousands of employees have postponed their inclusion work just because they just want to need to find their feet and where they sit with everything.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:39:07 → 00:39:23]

    Viral Topic: The Power of Self-Understanding in Neurodiversity

    “but once you get to understanding something more about yourself, you go, that is why I don’t feel so bad about myself now because I know what is happening. And in fact, it makes it easier.”
    — Dr. Liz Wilson [00:55:51 → 00:56:01]

    Definition of Terms Used
    Behavioural Science
    • Definition: Behavioural science is the interdisciplinary study of human behaviour through systematic analysis and investigation, drawing on principles from psychology, sociology, anthropology, and related disciplines.
    • Relevance: In the context of workplace equity and inclusion, behavioural science provides the evidence-based frameworks to understand, predict, and influence how individuals and groups act within organisational cultures, enabling meaningful and sustainable change.
    • Examples: Using data on unconscious bias to redesign hiring processes or setting up “nudge” techniques to reinforce inclusive behaviours in meetings.
    • Related Terms: Organisational Psychology, Social Psychology, Behavioural Economics, Human Factors
    • Common Misconceptions: Many people assume behavioural science is merely common sense or that it simply describes behaviour, rather than offering a rigorous, data-driven approach for changing entrenched practices.
      • Cultural Transformation
      • Definition: Cultural transformation refers to the intentional modification of the collective behaviours, values, and norms within an organisation to create a more positive, inclusive, or productive environment.
      • Relevance: Central to inclusion work, cultural transformation focuses on shifting underlying systems and day-to-day actions so that equity and belonging are embedded at every level, rather than simply stating aspirational values.
      • Examples: Implementing new systems which require inclusive decision-making or changing team expectations to authentically welcome diverse perspectives.
      • Related Terms: Change Management, Organisational Development, Employee Engagement, Values Alignment
      • Common Misconceptions: Some believe culture can be transformed through slogans, posters, or one-off training alone; true transformation relies on sustained behavioural and systemic change over time.
        • Values Alignment
        • Definition: Values alignment is the degree to which an individual’s personal values are congruent with those espoused, upheld, or operationalised by their employer or team.
        • Relevance: When values are aligned, employees experience greater engagement and psychological safety, fuelling positive behaviour and retention; misalignment increases the risk of workplace toxicity, exclusion, or attrition.
        • Examples: An employee who values diversity and autonomy thrives in a company with inclusive, flexible policies; conversely, a mismatch leads to disengagement or resistance.
        • Related Terms: Cultural Fit, Psychological Contract, Mission Alignment, Person-Organisation Fit
        • Common Misconceptions: There is often an expectation that employees must conform to corporate values at the expense of their own, when authentic inclusion encourages respectful integration of diverse value sets.
          • Behavioural Economics (Systems and Architectures)
          • Definition: Behavioural economics examines how psychological, cognitive, emotional, cultural, and social factors affect the economic decisions of individuals and institutions, often challenging the notion of purely rational choice. Within this, “systems and architectures” denote the design of organisational processes that influence behaviour.
          • Relevance: By using structures that “nudge” desired actions, organisations can encourage inclusive behaviours without needing to change core beliefs—achieving systemic equity through context, policy, and process.
          • Examples: Requiring an inclusion checkpoint in every talent or project process so that progress is contingent upon demonstrating equitable action.
          • Related Terms: Nudge Theory, Choice Architecture, Structural Interventions, Policy Design
          • Common Misconceptions: Some view policies and systems as dry bureaucracy, when in fact they can be purposefully designed to make inclusion easy, routine, and non-negotiable.
            • The Eight Inclusion Needs of All People
            • Definition: The “Eight Inclusion Needs of All People” is a framework developed by Dr Liz Wilson, identifying core universal requirements—beyond just protected characteristics or labels—that enable every individual to experience genuine inclusion and belonging, regardless of context.
            • Relevance: Unlike tick-box or identity-specific approaches, this framework is holistic and intersectional, applicable across cultures and contexts, and helps shift focus from isolated groups to systemic, whole-person inclusion.
            • Examples: Needs might include safety, respect, access, and agency; the framework is used to review policies, shape team practices, or develop inclusive leadership models in workplaces and government.
            • Related Terms: Intersectionality, Whole-Person Approach, Universal Design, Psychological Safety
            • Common Misconceptions: Some imagine inclusion efforts must focus on discrete categories (e.g., only women’s programmes), failing to recognise the layered, interconnected nature of individuals’ needs and identities addressed by this approach.
              • Please connect with our hosts and guests, why not make contact..?

              Brought to you by your host
              Joanne Lockwood
              SEE Change Happen

              A huge thank you to our wonderful
              guest
              Dr Liz Wilson
              Dr Liz Wilson

              The post The Science of Workplace Equity appeared first on SEE Change Happen: The Inclusive Culture Experts.

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