The Self-Connection Podcast

This is an interview between Tim Sitt and Linda Lucas, Program Director at the Satir Institute of the Pacific (SIP), about Tim’s work and experience with Virginia Satir’s work. We cover a variety of topics such as the impact of Virginia’s work and impact, Congruence, Melting the iceberg, and the metaphor of the tree. This conversation highlights Tim Sitt’s work and an upcoming workshop titled “Melting the Iceberg.” which you can learn more about through the link below:

https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

Satir Institute of the Pacific Facebook https://www.facebook.com/satirinstituteofthepacific

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/satirinstitute/

The Satir Institute also offers free monthly community support meetings: https://satirpacific.org/event/sip-free-community-of-support-meetings/

0-10:00: Self-Connection Meditation 11:00 attempting to reconcile the level of hierarchy and seed. “Our differences are opportunities for growth.” Tim and Linda experienced disagreement and had the opportunity to practice what we had mutually learned about Virginia Satir’s work to help us reconcile those differences.

17:07 How did Virginia Satir’s work impact your life?

21:15 What does Virginia’s work have to offer people today?

23:55 we need new concepts to point to phenomenon and updating language to better point to the aliveness of Virginia’s work.

26:00 a discussion about congruence. Learning to value your nos.

28:25 The metaphor of the tree.

30:15 Virginia writings on Congruence. The universality of human beings which guarantee similarity and differences

. 34:00 - 38:20 til What Tim means by ‘melting the iceberg?”

43:00 a stronger theoretical frame will help people understand Virginia work and to take risks towards growth

45:23 Virginia’s discussion of the pot highlights a time where she defines self-esteem as the content of our consciousness. It is important to remember that the Self is more the space of the container rather than any specific content held within which can change or transform.

46:47 What can communities to express congruence?

48:50 the importance of creating healthy organizations.

Melting the Iceberg Workshop by Tim Sitt Hosted by the Satir Institute of the Pacfiic https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

Victor Yalom, PhD, is the Founder, Director of Content and Resident Cartoonist of Psychotherapy.net. He maintained a full-time practice psychology practice in San Francisco for over 25 years, and currently continues to see a small handful of clients, as well as leading psychotherapy and consultation groups. He has conducted workshops in existential-humanistic and group therapy in the US, Mexico, and China. He has produced over 100 training videos in the field of psychotherapy and continues to be inspired the many master therapists he has been privileged to work with, including existential-humanistic psychologist James Bugental, and his father Irvin Yalom. In his spare time he paints, creates metal sculptures, and tries to improve his table tennis game. More information on Victor and his artwork is at sfpsychologist.com.

Please visit www.psychotherapy.net to view the wonderful resources they have there which include over 300 videos of the prominent psychotherapist of the past and present. Think Netflix but for psychotherapist.

You can save $100 dollars off an annual memberships at psychotherapy.net with the discount code : connection100

Rather than having a set agenda for the podcast, Victor offered to have an open ended conversation with me and to explore and learn together, which was very exciting for me. Since the podcast is about connection it was fitting for us to explore topics related to psychotherapy as the content that served as the context for learning about and with each other. 

We start the discussion with me sharing my here and now experience of feeling nervous to speak with him, which is very unusual. I decide to share this straight away and Victor compassionately invites me to explore my experience together. 

2:00 Victor shares the common expectation that a therapist will take away or reduce the experience they are having. Instead he points out that we can be with our experience and learn from it. 

3:00 Tim express gratitude for Victor’s work in making Virginia Satir’s work available on video and subsequent work with other master therapists. 

8:10 Victor reflects that he notices so much in what he’s hearing and noticing with what Tim’s shared that in therapeutic context would be available. He feels that psychotherapy can be a creative artful process.

10:30 Tim poses the question of what aspects of therapeutic skills are relevant for day to day intimate and connective conversations to Victor. 

12:27 Victor reflects that he often asks clients to reflect on what’s happening for them at the head level and heart level. He suggests slowing down and tuning into ourselves and the other person. Attending to the words , and facial expressions of the other person as well as one’s own body and feelings. 

18:40 We talk about what ‘here and now’ means in context of group and individual therapy. Victor shares that he is feeling engaged, and in flow and aware of some vulnerability and a desire to share something of use to the audience. 

21:45 Tim asks about Victor’s connection to James Bugental who was a Humanistic existential psychologist. Victor shares about his meeting and experiences of training with James. 

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27:30 Victor reflects on his learnings with James Bugental. He demonstrates and differentiates some of the ideas and techniques from James Bugental’s work such as searching that make it different from normal day to day conversations.

32:20  One of the most powerful words he would say was , “And...”  rather than letting the conversation be a ping pong match.  It reinforces and introduces the idea that there’s always more. This is one of things James used to say, “There’s always more.” Each person is an arena of endless exploration.

34:00 Victor experiential explores his emotions that come up upon his reflects on his relationships with James Bugental. 

37:50  Tim shares a quote from James Bugental 

“ But early on l wanted to change her implicit sense of her task from telling me about herself to expressing herself. That's such an important difference. Then she makes herself an object of description. We're not dealing with a living person. lnformation about her. .. l don't like to get a lot of information about a client in advance. l want to know are they're reasonably able to maintain, and reality testing is all right, that sort of thing. But too much information will just cloud the screen for me. 

 l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. To discover this unique person. And that sounds very nice and humanistic, and it is. But the real value is, that way l get to know the living

person, not about a person who has that name.”

39:00 Victor reflects on the therapist role in helping the client to not objectify themselves but to enter more deeply in their experience and to be present (“search process”) 

42:00 James Bugental also talked about ‘resistance’ which is resistance to life. These are coping patterns created for survival, defense mechanisms.  They work for us but also limit us. 

Examples, intellectualizing, or mocking oneself, or hiding emotions. 

Helping clients become more flexible with their coping patterns.

47:00 “inclusion not amputation” another James Bugental quote . He also talked about the co-occuring counter balancing energies of support and encouragement or the ‘backstop’ that urges them forward. 

50: 30  Tim reads a quote by Rollo May and asks for Victors reflections. 

“....and the problem is that psychotherapy becomes more and more a system of gimmicks. People have special ways of doing their own therapy. They learn which particular buttons to push. They're taught various techniques by which they can, so that they can at least cure this isolated symptom or that. And that wasn't the purpose at all, of Freud and Jung and the rest of the really great men who began our field. Their purpose was to make the unconscious conscious. And that's a great--there's a great deal of difference between them.

This was what Freud was setting out to do. It's what Jung is trying to do. It's what Adler and Rank did. These people never talked about these gimmicks. It just didn't interest them. What did interest them was making a new person. You see, the new possibilities come up. Then you have--then you change the person. Otherwise, you change only the way he behaves, only the way he approaches this or that incidental problem. The problem's going to change in six months when he'll be back again for some more so-called therapy.” -Rollo May

52:00 Victor reflects on some of the context surrounding more technique based therapies and the importance of therapist reflecting on their use of self, to sit with difficult emotions, not necessarily always needing to ‘do’ something to the client.  The ability to sit with clients and to be with their emotions. 

58:32 Victor shares about his orientation and perspective towards psychotherapy.

1:03:30 We explore the words. “Self-Connection”

I explore two metaphors to simultaneously hold a space for happiness in the temporary sense which occurs at the level of ego and roles and a related dimension of being, our roots, where the existential connection to Self allows for a grounding in our humanity that does not depend on external rewards to be valuable or worthy.

When we can return to our Self, the ground of Being, we let go of attachment to things and material happiness. We reclaim our projected energy and we enter into a state of silence where we are not bought into a delusion of happiness.

In this podcast interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with both Sharon Loeschen and John Banmen. Two prominent leaders and teachers of the Satir Model.   Today we explore the topic of context.

Sharon has over 4 decades  of experience as a psychotherapist, teacher, and trainer. She is past president of the Virgiania Satir global net work and uses the Satir Growth Model to facilitate learning and healing. She has developed the Satir Coaching and Mentoring Certification program which is being well received around the world.   You can learn more about her by  visiting Satirglobal.org 

She has authored several books: 

Enriching Your Relationship with Yourself and Others: https://satirglobal.org/product/enriching-your-relationship-with-yourself-and-others/

Choosing Your Life Story: Inspirational Stories of Transformations from the Streets of South Central Los Angeles: https://satirglobal.org/product/choosing-your-life-story

John Banmen is one of the foremost experts and teachers of the Satir model. He co-authored the book The Satir Model: Family therapy and beyond and has written, edited many many other books related to Virginia Satir’s work. He was an instructor, associate and Adjunct professor at the university of British Columbia for 21 years. As well as an honorary associate professor at the University of Hong Kong (2000-2004).  He has created training programs in dozens of countries in Asia, Europe South and North America. He provides supervision for counselors, psychotherapist and family therapist.  

I have the honor and privilege of being able to call both of these wonderful people, friends and mentors.

For background, Virginia Satir was one of the founding figures in family therapy. She was born in 1916 and died in 1988.  Her model of therapy has had a major impact on the field of psychotherapy and other fields to this day. Her way of working emphasizes a conscious awareness of how we use ourselves in therapy, the incorporation of the body in the process of therapy, she would have people standing up sculpting their family dynamic with stances, she could emphasis the need for people to orient their bodies, eyes and even touch while communicating, she created dynamic and effective processes for transformational change such as parts party which is similar to internal family systems and family reconstruction which we will talk a bit about in the conversation. Virginia Satir is a giant int he field of therapy , family therapy, couples therapy.  Learning about her work has formed the foundation of how I approach life as human being and in all my professional roles as a therapist, writer.

If you are interested in learning more , I recommend visiting satirglobal.org and reading some other books like : the new peoplemaking, making contact, conjoint family therapy

3:00 John Banmen begins by reflecting on Virginia’s use of the word ‘wholeness’. He describes feeling that there is more to what she meant with wholeness. David Bohm talks about a larger, universal wholeness; being a part of the universe.

4:30 Wholeness what does it mean? On one level, wholeness is the appreciation of worth in each person. This may have been an initial first step of valuing all people regardless of age, sex or race as equal in human value.

John proposes that we may be all connected to a universal energy.

What does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to have space?

Space is important to pay attention to not just the things that fill in the space.

What is between ? In the silence? Between the notes?

11:00 Physics is concerned with viewing the world either as particles or waves. Tim draws a comparison to forms of consciousness being particle-like such as thoughts, feelings, perceptions, expectations and the aspect of consciousness which is more fluid and formless.

13:00 Virginia Satir emphasized “and...” not either ...or....

John makes the point that we need to differentiate first before we can connect and integrate.

John feels that we may fixate too much on individuality or individuation and need to keep moving towards a greater integration to a larger whole.

17:00 Tim asks “Why is important to be in touch with wholeness that is universal?”

John Banmen feels it is a natural process to discovery that we are more than what we think we are.

Divisions lead to conflict. The reality of wholeness may help us reduce our conflicts and move towards peace.

20:00 Tim asks John about his inside experience of wholeness. John describes there is a place beyond thinking where there is an experience of ‘oneness’. This is a connection to the universe.

Oneness is wholeness. As you elevate about thought and experience oneness, John describes naturally letting go of divisions and experiencing oneness with other people.

23:00 Distinction between thought and thinking... We discuss thoughts as formed thoughts that are dead conclusions as compared to thinking which is vital, exploratory and alive.

26:30 John talks about being able to connect at different levels which could be physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual. How can we connect at the total picture of life...love, acceptance compassionate...these have an emotional component but they are transcendent energies or consciousness...a person can intentional meditate on an energy like loving-kindness to change the quality of energy in their mind.

31:30 An energy of conscious that is vital was what Virginia was in touch with and in touch with the life force in others.

32:00 To be congruent is to be in tune with I AM: Self energy. John mentions that feeling great about Carl Rogers, but being with Virginia John felt in touch with his own ‘greatness’. He described feeling elevated , at a higher vibration, with Virginia simply through her raising one’s congruence simply by being present.

Virginia was in a different state of consciousness that helped elevate others.

John describes Virginia as being very generous with sharing her energy and shining her light with others.

37:00 Sharing a light. Virginia felt that we are each a light.

40:00 John expresses the importance of realizing that we are spirit. John talks about acknowledging that we are already whole ; that we are it.

42:30 Wholeness on different levels : within myself, with others, with the universe. According to John, Wholeness has to do with energy, spirit of a deeper level than merely the physical. John encourages depth of the energy. Tim introduces consciousness.

45:00 Our consciousness can connect; John points to the possibility that as much as they can connect and that they might be the part of the same whole.

When we have specific thoughts, specific forms of consciousness, we can begin to identify with that and begin to create separations in our mind that then takes away from the perception or the experience of wholeness.

Is the energy of wholeness what allows us to transcend the limitations of our current forms?

Is this what allows us to connect? Letting go of attachments allows for peace.

47:00 Tim shares about the particles of emotions and how that can be held within a larger energy of peace , love and compassion and this is what helps contain and transform the forms.

49:30 Can we experience our particularized thought and our universality at the same time?

51:00 When we let go of our rigid attachment to time what becomes available to us? Is time managing us or are we managing time? We discuss how our expansion of time can help us transcend our rigid ways of using time dictated by expectations, rules, contexts.

56:30 Cosmic wholeness. This is a term used to remind us that we are more than what we are at the level of perception, feelings, personal identity.

58:10 What happens to consciousness when the body dies? Virginia talked about 4 levels of ‘birthing’.. Each representing a higher level of consciousness and this maybe a movement towards greater wholeness. The whole whole?

1:03 John talks about Virginia’s ability to talk to the masses by offering something at the concrete behavioral change level and all the way to cosmic level. John shares Virginia as a teacher teaching many different aged children in the class and that her work supports the development of consciousness at the level where people are. John experienced Virginia as expressing the many layers simultaneously in her teachings.

1:08 Tim shares the connection the cosmic wholeness would inform all the various contexts and forms relevant to the audience. Perhaps being in touch with one’s wholeness helps people be in touch with their wholeness because after all it is the same.

The therapist can lead the process by being in touch with the deeper levels of wholeness, yearnings, that the client may or may not be aware of consciously but experiences. This is an important factors in creating a healing connection/relationship.

1:14 John emphasizes the importance of attuning to the level of consciousness where the client is living and trying to help them elevate them towards a higher level.

1:18 John reflects on the challenge and enjoyment of putting into words the experience and the energy of wholeness.

1:22 What facilitates human growth and development? What are the conclusions that block the movement of life and energy within?

Leonie Flamand Gallant is Metis. she grew up in a small French rural community in Saskatchewan. Her mom was French from Montreal and her Dad was Cree and French from Manitoba . She is the 6 child in a family of ten children. Being Metis was not spoken of in her family, her knowing of her heritage came from being called “half breed “ when entered school. In her work with Virginia she recovered her heritage both Cree and French. The Metis people of Canada have a very rich and interesting story of how colonialism affected their lives.

Leona made a decision to learn from the masters in the profession of working with people, Virgina Satir and Maria Gomori were at the forefront of her education working in the helping field. She was a stay at home Mom raising four children for the first ten years of her adult life, the next ten was working and training in the profession shew anted to be a part of. In her profession she worked as a drug and alcohol counsellor, a stopping the violence counsellor [ working with historical sexual abuse], from 1992 to 2000 she facilitated a counsellor training program that trained adult learners to work with Alcohol and drug and family development in a Native friendship center Tillicum Lelum in Nanaimo BC. Their program was Satir based and every person as part of their training did their own family reconstruction which she facilitated. In 2000 she created her own business and contracted with Tellicum lelum the Satir part of the training program as part of herbusiness. She is now still involved with Satir work in her 81st year of her amazing life.

2:14 We begin a meditation

6:41 Leona and Tim begin the interview. Leona talks about living with no resistance and openness.

She describes feeling open and then when she’s around someone who is afraid and the feeling of fear comes in. She gives herself permission to feel what comes up. She recognize that she doesn’t have to go back to where she was but to stay long enough for something else to come so she can see the person to in front of her..

10:26 She describes status quo all the ways of how she learned to be by the family and the culture. Essentially all behavioral patterns. If we allow ourselves to feel then we can have choice. What is present in this moment? Leona consciously chooses not to battle the pattern but to engage it with acceptance and non judgment.

13:00 Leona notices anothers resistance and then focuses on her own resistance and this leads to connection...touching somehow albeit not literally a physical touch.

14:20 Congruent is a living word meaning a word that she will constantly learning about them and with them. Can we treat words as living things. Leona talks about the importance of accepting one’s experience as human with no resistance.

16:00 Leona talks about her experience of shame about being herself and being Metis in her early life. Virginia talked to her about the wonderful Metis people. The experience of total acceptance from Virginia helped transformed. She describes that she was walking into an energy field where she felt good inside.. ..Virginia felt so warm that it was impossible not to feel warm inside yourself.

“Journey to Self” was the name of the training she did in 1980.

22:00 She did parts party, family mapping, family story and other experiences helped her transform her experience of being Metis as a wealth/resources.

25:00 Leona experienced herself dissociate in the beginning of the training and Virginia had her stand on stool and she connected with her and it helped her land back in her body.

She noticed that her changing her relationship to herself.

28:00 Leona talks about Family Reconstruction , which is a major vehicle for change in the Satir Model.

31:00 She talks about the counsellor training program she was part of running and the use of Virginia’s work and her various tools. Leona shares that ‘hearing your own story is healing’

33:00 Leona would work with people to get the story of the mother and the father’s story and sculpt each. What was happening in the world when people were born, growing up, how did ht mother and father learn to parent, how did they meet, what happened in school, what happened in the community they lived in,

36:00 What did a person learn through the events, histories that are buried deep within the person. The learnings that created the patterns. This was an opportunity to see yourself and parents in a different light and to answer the question of ‘how come?’ This is the engagement with the wholeness of life, of full humanness.

39:30 Leona talks about understanding of how a person grows up and why you learned the coping that you have learned. This creates a hopeful energy because if you can understand that you learned to do what you; then you can realize you can unlearn the old and learn something new.

41:00 Self and Essence are both the same and different. Leona describes the continual movement of learning to love yourself. To learn to love period. Leona uses the metaphor of baking bread. That sometimes we bake bread and it falls flat and to be hopeful about the process of learning what went wrong and learning to enjoy what’s there.

Essence is about enjoying what is there; the total moment.

42:24 Leona connects the word self to memory and identity and essence as beyond memory and understanding...that is the transcendent. She describes playing between the memory and the essence and the wholeness of the separate and connected as a whole.

45:00 Tim reflects on his experience of connecting self and of essence being with Leona and his appreciation of her.

46:30 Leona talks about Brian Swimme. “We live in the context of the universe” How big is our learning capacity when we consider the vastness of the universe?

49:00 Words are important. Words are pointers to the essence and are like doorway into the vast meanings of the word.

“We’re not caught up to Virginia” Leona says.

50:50 Leona’s wish for growth and peace in the world is in our ability to be with fear in a non-destructive way with myself, with family, with community. Fear has a face a feeling, a power. How to be with that power that brings forth love and not more fear. “How can I embrace fear with love?” Leona asks.

I can learn to be with my fear. This is a skill that can be learned. Maybe the fear yeast for some growth. IF we can encapsulate our fear with love , we can grow and learn.

01:00 Laura describes the context of how Virginis’a family camps began

Several therapist were requesting that Virginia work with their families and the idea came to work in a camp setting with hiking.

Family camps began in 1976.

Laura started leading the camps in 1984 up until 3 years ago.

5:30 Virginai called her camp an experiment. If a week a year, could create change that could last.

6:00 Russell talked about meeting Virginia running a conference of 60 people

Russell noticed that people were ‘hooking up’ and having relationships although they were married and that he felt this was not promoting family. Virginia told him about family camp which was effort for the therapist to learn with their families.

7:40 Laura describes the celebration of life transitions, births, marriages, the beginning of relationships. Camp was a place to practice open communication which nurtured and strengthened family life.

9:00 Laura describes the use of talking circles between teens and parents. The outer ring were focused on holding a space and listening (e.g. the teens) and then to engage with each after hearing the inner circle conversation first.

11:30 there was a camp committee that was formed which took the pressure of running the camp off the facilitators.

12:30 Laura describes the committee meetings that occur 3 times a year which were also very supportive element of the camp as a whole.

14:30 People would do a piece of work in front of the group as part of a demonstration. Thereafter people could help support that person regarding that piece of work during the daily interactions of the camp.

16:15 Laura describes the ingredients that made the camp a nurturing community. People became attached and members would become part of the leadership. Russell talked about it’s focus on congruence, growth , self-esteem, communication. The community would support people having difficulty (e.g., how to not use physical fights). Meditation and community meetings help them feel in touch with themselves and to feel seen.

19:20 The work done in front of the group create a strong intimacy throughout the camp which is unusual for other camps. People would connect through the vulnerability that they witnessed and they would share their own vulnerability.

People would request time to sort through some challenges they were having.

21:00 the camp would start with a temperature reading. People could say what they felt and really wanted...e.g. Appreciations..hopes and wishes...complaints...

22:00 There were teen groups, womens,/men’s group, parents , young adults... These were various spaces for people to share and process their experiences.

Evenings was a time for the whole group to gather and to have leisure time together.

24:40 Tim asks what elements of Virginia’s work were taught explicitly.

The campers would learn about the five freedoms, the coping stances. They would make use of the tools : parts party and elements of family reconstruction.

26:50 Congruent communication, family systems/maps, were some of the key teachings in the camp.

28:30 Being in nature and away from technology is an important ingredient of camp for people to focus on themselves.

30:00 There was a representative from each group: young adult, couples, elders, youth...they would report what the facilitators would need to know about the dynamic within these subgroups.

31:10 In the beginning, Virginia did a lot of the leading of the camp herself. There was an important transition from her leadership to a committee.

The values of the camp were congruence and communication. That each person had to earn their own power. To be in charge of your own growth.

35:00 Mentorship. Russell describes how mentorship took place within the camp.

38:20 “Becoming a peer with your parents” as a point of maturity for the teens and young adults in the camp. The children had to find a way to grow that was not dictated by the parents, that the children would own their own voice.

39:00 Each person was encouraged to have their own voice especially with their parents.

41:00 We discuss how people balanced role function with connection to Self. Everyone took on jobs to create a sense of connection and equality among all people. The focus was on making camp work and that all needed to contribute.

44:00 Laura talked about how camp supported her family and the growth of their communication. Russell talked about his experience of having his family as part of the camp and the memories that were created.

47:00 Russell feels that family camp is the best expression of Virginia work where people could practice what she taught.

49:00 Tim asks about boundaries as fascilitators with their family among the larger group.

Russell talked about how living together in camp took away from the role of therapist and being seen as a fellow camper.

54:00 We talk about the missing element of community and the opportunity that the camp gives of feeling known and seen. Laura describes Virginia’s vision that raising consciousness and the creation of community were related and parallel goals.

57:00 Laura talks about facilitation meetings.

59:20 The expansion of consciousness is related to the expansion and enriching of our communities.

Here’s one quote from Laura Dodson:

“Transformation is a change in the entire way of being; how your relate to life. The transformation relate to changes in attitudes that live deep inside of us like: compassion and connection to our common humanity.”

2:30 Laura shares her experience of Virginia was that she was able to distill complex ideas with simple words and movements and sculpts that transcended specific cultures. Virginia’s aim was to change the consciousness in the world. Her aim was to be understandable and useable.

Carl Jung moved from Freudian model to a more growth model. He saw symptoms as a block in the flow of growth that we all encounter. Virginia saw things this way too.

5:50 Carl Jung had a deep respect for each individual as did Virginia. They respected the unique individual and their ability to adapt, grow and change.

6:40 Tim asks what is the difference between a family therapist and a Jungian analyst. Jung was interested in the unconscious of the individual. Jung was not looking at family systems the individual developed within. Virginia saw an individual embedded within multiple layers of systems: family, cultural, history of humanity.

8:30 Tim asks what each thinker would have benefited from the other. Laura feels Jung would’ve benefited from systems’s thinking and Satir would’ve come to the spiritual aspects of being which she got to eventually. She recognized the spiritual base in the 80s.

9:30 the cycle of death and rebirth comes from Jung. Virginia didn’t look at death as much as she looked at birt. The movement towards integration and wholeness come from Virginia’s work. Laura didn’t feel that Jung walked us through the steps of transformation. Virginia clarified those steps. Eg., we had to tell the truth without blaming., have courage, have humility, compassion for self and other. Jung talked about increased consciousness. Focusing on what one had learned and practicing, forgiving. Laura found that Virginia emphasized the importance of forgiveness for growth that was not in Jung’s work.

12:00 Jung took what came in dreams and followed that. He didn’t clarify steps like Virginia did

To help us move from survival coping to growth. Laura said that she was much more connected to her unconscious and her dreams which helped direct her life. Laura describes there being riches in the unconscious.

14:00 Change is an ongoing process that never ends throughout life. Our hope is that we can move through the circle more rapidly. Foreign elements are bound to happen leading to crisis.

Dismembering is the feeling of being pulled apart, which comes Jung’s thinking.

15:50 We begin with a sense of equilibrium, calmness, centeredness. A foreign element comes and it separates us from ourselves. We feel abandoned, wounded, betrayed. It’s inevitable. Disemembering occurs.

Then liminality occurs. You can’t go back but you don’t know how to move forward. You feel confused and afraid.

We fall into defensive mechanisms. For example denial as a coping is adaptive initially and unders certain conditions. Projection, denial, depression, suidcidal...it’s the experience of deflation of energy. Deflation is a loss of sense of who you are. Loneliness and feeling lost. We are barely coping.We are in the dark night of the soul.

What is required for change is the numinous experience, the experience of light. Something that would allow you to see things from another angle.

21:32 “The wonderful thing about the unconscious is that it wants to break through; it wants to give you light. There’s something inside you that wants to give birth to a new way of seeing.

But it’s frightening because it’s giving up the old way. Letting go. Surrender to what might come next. “

22:10 dreams and talking with a friend that can add light or shift your perspective and help you see light in the darkness and experience hope. Some of Virginia’s processes helped give people insight that freed them from the inside. A new way of seeing.

What Virginia created in sculptures and pictures on the outside; Carl Jung followed dreams.

26:00 People come to therapy at the point when they have fallen into the unknown and are seeking an experience of the numinious, of light and a wish for hope.

27:00 Becoming conscious of our defense mechanisms allows us to have more choice and to

Let go of unhealthy coping.

28:00 Laura talks about the importance of hope and how the therapist holds hope. Laura describes the therapist usinge x-ray vision that sees the higher Self and the young vulnerable part saying “all i want to be loved” Connecting to the essence, the deep spiritual essence of the other person.

31:15 Laura is confident that the unconscious will show them a way. The therapist is listening with them for guidance of where to go. The therapist needs to be willing to be surprised.

Laura provides an example of listening to a client who had a dream which pointed a direction to go.

36:00 you need someone to hold a space and listen and believe in you as you find your way.

37:30 Laura talks about step of courage, commitment, and truth telling, facing the reality of things. Allowing ourselves to mourn for ourselves and with compassion. Joining the human race with our frailties.

We walk into what we were defending against and the resources of responsibility, mourning, commitment, truthtelling (without blame) , curiosity, humility, and courage all help us walk into what we were defending against.

Facing what we fear...what we hate...Our trauma/hurt....

Courage is the first step, then truthtelling,, humility to join the human race.

Commitment and focused on the path..

Mourn what wasn’t and what isn’t.

Laura talks about Virginia’s direction of being more curious than blaming and using our detective hat.

41:15 Increasing consciousness and compassion as you move through transformation and rejoining the human race and forgive yourself. You increase your connection, congruence and compassion with Self and others.

Your self and your higher Self

42:40 Foundational attitudes as a way of being with our experience that allows us to move through experience. E.g., commitment to become more conscious.

44:30 We begin to integrate what we were falling apart about in crisis and the energy transforms.

Jung used the word energy for God. Virginia used the words “Life Force” The transformation comes upon you. You can’t make it happen. This is the rebirth. It comes upon us as we do these things.

46:30 Energy is in constant motion. Your attitude to change allow you to walk towards it. As you walk towards it, you become more conscious of the new learnings and that brings a transformation.

You can move towards light, but you can’t make the energy transform.

“Transformation is a change in the entire way of being; how your relate to life. The transformation relate to changes in attitudes that live deep inside of us like: compassion and connection to our common humanity.”

50:30 Laura shares her experience of her pain. “I am not that pin; i am having that experience. I am more than that” She is aware of her connection to life being bigger than the pain. My existence is more than to pain. Laura describes her pain as her ‘teacher’. “I have to learn to breathe and move with it. I will learn in relation to it.”

55:00 Laura talks about cultural transformation. Our culture has been inflated and ‘superior’. She talks about corona virus and some of what is going on in the world.

We talk about the resources in the transformational wheel as an anchor of how we can move through these difficult times.

59:15 “There’s a new energy that’s alive in the world today and I am part of that energy.” Virginia Satir said in reference to the evolution of consciousness and her belief in a tipping point.

“To the god in me and to the god within you” we can connect and transformation can occur.

Howard Kahn is an Assistant Clinical Professor in the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine, where he teaches a yearly seminar in Family Therapy and supervises psychotherapy. He has also been a Visiting Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School (2012). Dr. Kahn has maintained a private practice of Clinical Psychology in New Haven since 1970. He is a graduate of City College of New York (1961) and of the University of Rochester (PhD,1970)

Howard explains his journey into therapy and transition into an awareness of the humanistic psychologies.

Lou Ferman had people who were teachers of humanistic psychology. Virginia Satir was one of these trainers. Howard shares about his first experience with Virginia Satir 1969 and described her as someone who cared about your experience and only that.

5:00 Howard learned from Virginia that there was a way he could be that was consonant to his being. Virginia was novel in her approach with family and how engaging communicative therapy.

7:10 Howard had an experience with Virginia during a demonstration where fell into a trance with her. She asked and cared about what she was feeling. This resonated with Howard as a way of doing therapy.

10:22 Howard said his connection with Virginia helped him grow his energy for intimacy. He felt supported for who he is.

12:00 Howard shares about how Virginia helped him overcome his fear of public speaking.

14:00 Howard said Virginia paid attention to what was going on with people, taking responsibility for themselves, how to be in relationships, but she did it in an interactive way.

15:33 Communicative intimacy...Helmith Kizer”? There’s a universal symptom he called ‘duplicity’ people were not congruent with thoughts and feelings. He promoted encounter. When my thoughts feels and actions are in line we are congruent. When we are paying attention to each other’s experience. My awareness of me, my awareness of you; your awareness of you and you’re awareness of me.

We communicate and share these levels. It’s the attitude of I’m fully aware and interested in you. It is a readiness and willingness to provide the full benefit of your being and to connect with someone.

17:40 What empowers us to be more connected? Howard shares to be in the present and to be in a flow together. Howard reflects on his own awareness of the present experience, his feelings and also our conversation. He describes it as an immediacy of experience with Virginia.

21:00 the freedom to be yourself and to emerge is a healing experience. The collection of healing moments is therapy. Therapy is a part of natural life.

22:51 the way we are in therapy is our natural form. That’s when we are at our best.

Howard shares about seeing a kid, his neighbor, who got hurt and how he went over to him. He describes the moment of contact.

25:00 Our ability to accept our feelings and the moments. Howard describes his experience of being present with the boy.

28:00 Howard talks about embodying theory. He talks about having an inherent valuing system (that of acceptance and compassion). This leads you to be curious and to be engaged. He talks about focusing not on fixing anything but being present.

33:00 Howard reflects on the experience of the interview so far as a demonstration of being present and engaging with communicative intimacy and how important this is for healing.

34:00 Howard asks Tim about his experience. We have a moment of connection.

36:20 Howard describes Virginia as awake and full of love.

39:30 Virginia said “I’m everyone you admire” Useful and nourishing other.

You’re the agent of your own action and experience. You never felt like Virginia was going to fix you. She helped you come into your own power.

42:00 We live our lives in fictional finalism. Quote by Alfred Adler.

45:45.What’s kept you connected? Howard shares that he feels energized by meeting people.

47:00 “I think you can be judicious and not judgmental” Howard shares that he gives people feedback based on his own experience.

“I want to love you without clutching, appreciate you without judging, join you without invading, invite you without demanding, leave you without guilt, criticize you without blaming, and help you without insulting. If I can have the same from you, then we can truly meet and enrich each other.”

― Virginia Satir

52:00 We talk about Self connection and self-esteem. There’s a transcendent , a communion...that is something bigger than an individuals self-concept, or feelings and thoughts about themselves. Howard talks about how we deal with the spiritual all the time. He describes the connection he felt being in the delivery room, with his wife, his baby the doctors.

58:00 Self-esteem is the outcome of Self-connection..

Being in a dynamic living process with each other or with life in general.

1:03:00 You are a manifestation of God’s will. You’re experiencing and expressing yourself is transcendent work, god’s work...

“I’m not here to meet your expectations and you’re not here to meet mine.”

Howard shares the last line “if we don’t it can’t be helped.”

“If you embrace one life, you create a universe”

1:09:09 Howard trusts that people will let go of their symptoms when we focus on connecting in the ways he is expressing (of being present, listening, being yourself) Something of what we want emerges in therapy.

1:13:29 Howard sees himself as a teacher of humanism. The processes that Virginia highlighted are part of the natural world. They are not specific to people or ideology.

1:32 Jennifer leads us in a self-connecting meditation

5:21 Tim reads from Jennifer’s book and Jennifer reflects on the word “Grace”

What is helping me here at this moment right now? Can I notice my breath, the fresh air?

What’s sustaining my life?

9:12 We need chaos in order to experience grace. Jennifer talks about the importance of pausing and being in the present moment to connect to grace.

How does your grace interact with the chaos of life?

Jennifer talks about how grace helps create a sense of peace and presence. She talks about the practice of taking moments of stillness and of gratitude. Putting a hand on her heart and stilling herself.

Notice and appreciate that keeps going on no matter what happens.

12:40 What are the thoughts, attitudes and beliefs that are connected to grace? What are the expressions of wisdom that express grace? Jennifer mentions that we have all the resources for survival and growth. Also, as human beings we do the best we can with what we know how to do.

Jennifer talks about going beneath the surface of behavior and listening with curiosity for the deeper need. The need to be heard and connected

We may have the capacity to love,but the capability occurs through learning and practise over time

Imagining the iceberg is a skill that can be learned. Awareness of one's and another’s feelings, perceptions, expectations and deeper still their yearnings

17:52 How can we connect to our Resources? Asking yourself when do I start to react? What’s happening in my body? Can I pause and take a breath? This allows us to slow down, pause, instead of going into fight or flight or freeze?

Be curious about what is going on inside of you and in others?

20:28 Can I own my experience? Notice what’s happening in my body, feelings, what meaning am I making? Being open to alternative meaning.

Some helpful questions for self-reflection

What else could it mean?

What’s happening in my feelings? What am I needing right now? What need is unmet?

I can only be in charge of my response and what I am doing.

23:30 Beliefs are alive. They are living when they are embodied in action. I own my experience and actions. Owning my experience and then connecting to a deep yearning that can help transform the experience. We can be in touch with peace and start to embody that.

26:00 Tim asks Jennifer to make more concrete the forms of grace and peace as living energies.

Jennifer talks about flow and harmony and how she experiences calmness and stillness with vitality in her body. Feeling grounded on the earth. Experiencing something greater than oneself. “I experience myself as part of a whole. “ she says.

The notion of ownership may be grounding itself.

I own my experience; I own my response.

Anger is an emotion that projects our attention externally and it's easy to lose ourselves in the experience of anger.

Tim shares Virginia’s idea that parents experience having holes in them which they try to fill by bringing children into the world; those children experience/feel that they have holes. Virginia helped people understand that they were already whole, not hole-y. Being whole means that I have all the worthiness and resources within me.

A grounding exercise might be to say:

I own my feelings, thoughts and needs

I own my responses

I can breathe and own the response that comes next..

Connect to your deeper yearnings.

When I connect to my yearning, for example, the peace that becomes a gift to myself and to the other.

30:30 Jennifer when we are in touch with our yearnings we are much more able to be compassionate towards ourselves and others. Connecting to yearnings helps us account for ourselves, others and the larger context.

32:30 Jennifer shares about Virginia’s work on her life, personally and professionally. She had always felt something was missing. Learning about the foundations of Virginia’s work provided a framework that was grounding for her. Whereas other models focused on different aspects of experience, Virginia’s work helped Jennifer look at the full spectrum of experience.

Experiential, transformational, looking at the whole system.

36:00 Jennifer shares her ideas about changing our use of the word tools to vehicles for change. Focusing on the process of change. There is a dynamic fluidity to processes than tools.

39:30 Jennifer shares the 5 essential elements from the Satir Model: Positively directional, the use of Self, Change focused, systemic, experiential. As long as other techniques are congruent with these 5 elements she can incorporate it. She focuses on the relational process and does not see therapy as doing something to people.

41:30: What is self-connection to Jennifer and how she connects to herself. She describes herself as preparing herself to be fully present so she can connect with others. Spending some time alone perhaps in silent meditation to simply be. Jennifer emphasizes the importance of owning one’s experience as separate from other people.

44:40 The belief and knowing that clients have the resources to learn and survive. Jennifer doesn’t burden herself with having to do something but focuses on being something and providing the conditions for the work to occur. She experiences a lot of energy and fun in that work.

47:00 Jennifer encourages Self-connection to pause and to reflect on what we can be grateful for. Finding moments of grace in the face of chaos. “At this moment in time, I can breathe…I am alive…”

In each moment reflecting what you can be grateful for.

48:30 Tim asks how do you encourage grace and gratitude in the face of deep anxiety, depression or anger. Jennifer shares that during her husband's cancer diagnosis and treatment she was pregnant and this pushed her focus on self-care and manage her energy.

Jennifer said she emphasized breathing and being in nature. Being in nature helped her feel grounded.

50:33 In order to get to that place of gratitude, you need to believe that there is something to be grateful for. It’s an act of faith to get there. If I have the belief that there’s always something to be grateful for, then you have something to strive for. You may not be pregnant with a fetus, but you are pregnant with life and potentials in you. We need to protect the life within us and the yearnings that are desiring to come out. What if we protected our core Self to the level we would protect an unborn child?

We are all pregnant with life. We need to protect our life force...

When we do not honour, protect and express our life force..atrophy, destruction and suffering ensues.